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Going live with USD100k, which broker should I choose?

  • #21
  • Sep 29, 2008 4:05pm Sep 29, 2008 4:05pm
Quoting Samuri
Been trying for the demo platform of Dukascopy today, with a very nice result.

In a way, they have almost everything I need. Tight spreads, comprehensive order types, reasonable commission, stable connection. Only thing still worries me is the fund safety.

Will go live with them and keep you all informed about any progress.

Thanks my FF friends.

Samuri
When it comes to fund's safety with Dukascopy, there is none. This is not my opinion. It is what Lei Yao (customer service) told me point blank. There is no insurance, nada. The funds will be kept at UBS (ugh!). Also, there are drastic changes taking place with regards to fx laws in Switzerland. This is something one would have to keep track of.

The only way to get some safety is to use a BG for which you need at least 250,000 USD. Even so, 20% would still be kept unsecured in Dukascopy's account.

Also, I noticed that the spreads on their live platform and on the demo differed by 1-2 pips. I see that you are putting through 1M with a 100k account, which means that you'd need the full 1:100 leverage for USD based pairs.

If the fund's safety is your primary concern then go with IB. No contest there (unless you trade with 10+ mill and a get direct credit line from a bank--fxtrader42 seems to know all about this). The only down side might be that you only get 1:50.

Is Dukascopy's platform spiffier? Yes indeed. They seems to have put a great deal of effort into their Java platform. They even have slippage control on market orders. IB's IdealPro is really more utilitarian. Also, you should consider that IB charges interest on idle capital... Dukascopy does not.

I actually switched from Dukascopy to IB, FYI. This is not a time to take chances. We take plenty simply by trading forex in this environment. There is my answer.

fxterrapin
  • #22
  • Sep 29, 2008 4:30pm Sep 29, 2008 4:30pm
Quoting fxterrapin
When it comes to fund's safety with Dukascopy, there is none. This is not my opinion. It is what Lei Yao (customer service) told me point blank. There is no insurance, nada. The funds will be kept at UBS (ugh!). Also, there are drastic changes taking place with regards to fx laws in Switzerland. This is something one would have to keep track of.

The only way to get some safety is to use a BG for which you need at least 250,000 USD. Even so, 20% would still be kept unsecured in Dukascopy's account.

Also, I noticed that the spreads on their live platform and on the demo differed by 1-2 pips. I see that you are putting through 1M with a 100k account, which means that you'd need the full 1:100 leverage for USD based pairs.

If the fund's safety is your primary concern then go with IB. No contest there (unless you trade with 10+ mill and a get direct credit line from a bank--fxtrader42 seems to know all about this). The only down side might be that you only get 1:50.

Is Dukascopy's platform spiffier? Yes indeed. They seems to have put a great deal of effort into their Java platform. They even have slippage control on market orders. IB's IdealPro is really more utilitarian. Also, you should consider that IB charges interest on idle capital... Dukascopy does not.

I actually switched from Dukascopy to IB, FYI. This is not a time to take chances. We take plenty simply by trading forex in this environment. There is my answer.

fxterrapin

There is no such thing as leverage when using a line of credit... just your line of credit. You have limits as to how much you can trade before they shut you off.
  • #23
  • Sep 29, 2008 4:36pm Sep 29, 2008 4:36pm
Quoting fxterrapin

I actually switched from Dukascopy to IB, FYI. This is not a time to take chances. We take plenty simply by trading forex in this environment. There is my answer.

fxterrapin
I also prefer IB.
  • #24
  • Edited 7:26pm Sep 29, 2008 4:43pm | Edited 7:26pm
Quoting fxtrader42
There is no such thing as leverage when using a line of credit... just your line of credit. You have limits as to how much you can trade before they shut you off.
Read it again. I was refering to fund's safety, not leverage.
  • #25
  • Sep 30, 2008 3:11am Sep 30, 2008 3:11am
I live in Switzerland and can confirm, no funds safety - they offer some workaround to debit/credit your daily changes directly to your own personal UBS account, but I think you'll need more than 100k for that also.
Swiss banks in general do not really have a security for deposits either..
(there is a joint safety fund..but imagine a big bank would collapse..)
in in todays general market situation ..what is the value of a bank guarantee....even of the bigger banks... we all will find out within the next 18 months..my guess..

I made my reasearch quite a while ago and selected IB due to their
comprehensive insurances offered. Spreads are really comparable to duka,
commission is a bit higher, do not try to trade thin liquidity pairs like the NZD though on IB, their liq provider is NOT providing liquidty 24h...and be aware of a 15 min offline mode at 23.00 - 23.15 CET.

There are many great order management interfaces out for IB working though the API locally on your PC, ideal for scalping, automation etc.

But from what you said in regards to your trading style, I assume spread and commission aren't the real key elements (low frequency trading).

Mucho Pips !
PP



Quoting fxterrapin
When it comes to fund's safety with Dukascopy, there is none. This is not my opinion. It is what Lei Yao (customer service) told me point blank. There is no insurance, nada. The funds will be kept at UBS (ugh!). Also, there are drastic changes taking place with regards to fx laws in Switzerland. This is something one would have to keep track of.

The only way to get some safety is to use a BG for which you need at least 250,000 USD. Even so, 20% would still be kept unsecured in Dukascopy's account.

Also, I noticed that the spreads on their live platform and on the demo differed by 1-2 pips. I see that you are putting through 1M with a 100k account, which means that you'd need the full 1:100 leverage for USD based pairs.

If the fund's safety is your primary concern then go with IB. No contest there (unless you trade with 10+ mill and a get direct credit line from a bank--fxtrader42 seems to know all about this). The only down side might be that you only get 1:50.

Is Dukascopy's platform spiffier? Yes indeed. They seems to have put a great deal of effort into their Java platform. They even have slippage control on market orders. IB's IdealPro is really more utilitarian. Also, you should consider that IB charges interest on idle capital... Dukascopy does not.

I actually switched from Dukascopy to IB, FYI. This is not a time to take chances. We take plenty simply by trading forex in this environment. There is my answer.

fxterrapin
  • #26
  • Sep 30, 2008 3:54am Sep 30, 2008 3:54am
Quoting toshi

If you only traded majors, you could consider doing this via the futures route.
Spreads on euro or yen are usually a pip (a tick) and commissions are usually $5 r/t or less,
which at $12.50 a tick per contract is less than the average spread on many spot forex platforms.
10M round per week is about 40 contracts in, 40 out. You'd be completely annonymous at that level.
Of course that's a good thing. As time passes, you may even find you'll do that much every day
instead of every week. Just something to think about. Hope you do well.
Hi, Toshi,

Thanks for the informative input.
I did try trading forex futures through Xpresstrade years ago (like I mentioned in the above post) with a positive result. What I did not like it then was because the charting was very poor. And the leverage was also not up to 100:1.(though I know overleverage is dangerous, but my model still requires a leverage not less than 50:1)
Maybe I should dig in again on the forex future side and see if it works for my system too. At least I hope it can diversify part of my trading volume.

Any more information and your experience on this field is highly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Samuri
凹凸 only
  • #27
  • Sep 30, 2008 4:11am Sep 30, 2008 4:11am
Quoting shrike
You can get in on the institutional platform with only a 25K deposit, for example via aarontrade (altho with 500K minimum order size a 25K deposit doesn't make much sense in my opinion). Hotspot institutional as well as retail aint looking so hot ever since the crisis deepened around 2 weeks ago in terms of spreads. Even mb-trading(i use their data for charting) quotes much tighter often. Hopefully they will improve back to the old state again..
Hi, Shrike,

I've been using the institutional platform of RCG for more than two years. IMO, they are a reliable broker, nothing to complain. What I do not like from them is the spread. As to MBT, their commission rate is rather un-acceptable.

For a 100k account, taking 10 lot position for individual pair with a less 3% risk is quite acceptable in my trading model, we don't trade for fun, right?

Thanks for your help,
Samuri
凹凸 only
  • #28
  • Sep 30, 2008 4:25am Sep 30, 2008 4:25am
Quoting Samuri
Hi, Toshi,

Thanks for the informative input.
I did try trading forex futures through Xpresstrade years ago (like I mentioned in the above post) with a positive result. What I did not like it then was because the charting was very poor. And the leverage was also not up to 100:1.(though I know overleverage is dangerous, but my model still requires a leverage not less than 50:1)
Maybe I should dig in again on the forex future side and see if it works for my system too. At least I hope it can diversify part of my trading volume.

Any more information and your experience on this field is highly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Samuri

You want leverage ? These boys will give you leverage. Just because the exchange minimum margin
on a euro or a yen is like $3K overnite, there are tons of futures brokers that will allow you
to trade on about half for intra-day. You're getting close to 100:1 at that level.

I often see $1,000 and even $500 day-trade margins for electronic contracts where the exch. margin
is 2 or 3 thousand. I trade $1,000 day trade margins on Dow futures. That's a $3,500 overnite contract.
So I can do 10 with 10K at $50 tick, but I cant take them home without $35K in the account.
I just never usually trade more than I COULD take home overnite if I had to come up with the overnite margin.
Plus, if it's a daytrade, by definition I gotta get out at 4 o'clock eastern, or I'm no longer in a "daytrade".
It's a more efficient use of margin. But remember, futures are not spot forex though. 2 different things altogether.
  • #29
  • Oct 6, 2008 9:22am Oct 6, 2008 9:22am
Quoting Peter Pan
I live in Switzerland and can confirm, no funds safety - they offer some workaround to debit/credit your daily changes directly to your own personal UBS account, but I think you'll need more than 100k for that also.
Swiss banks in general do not really have a security for deposits either..
(there is a joint safety fund..but imagine a big bank would collapse..)
in in todays general market situation ..what is the value of a bank guarantee....even of the bigger banks... we all will find out within the next 18 months..my guess..

I made my reasearch quite a while ago and selected IB due to their
comprehensive insurances offered. Spreads are really comparable to duka,
commission is a bit higher, do not try to trade thin liquidity pairs like the NZD though on IB, their liq provider is NOT providing liquidty 24h...and be aware of a 15 min offline mode at 23.00 - 23.15 CET.

There are many great order management interfaces out for IB working though the API locally on your PC, ideal for scalping, automation etc.

But from what you said in regards to your trading style, I assume spread and commission aren't the real key elements (low frequency trading).

Mucho Pips !
PP
Some time ago I made huge investigation. To be honest no one can give you guarantee 100% that your funds are in safety.Risk is always. Let's look at this from other point of view.Possibilities that brokerage company will go in bankruptcy is much higher than bank will bankrupt. That's why first step is to check brokerage company. As Dukascopy is not taking part in trading and this fact is important. Only way how this company can go in bankruptcy is if no one will trade. But with other marketmakers is much higher risk that this marketmaker will go in bankrupt.
  • #30
  • Oct 6, 2008 9:30am Oct 6, 2008 9:30am
Quoting yaskevich
I also prefer IB.
I will never go with IB as they refused to some clients pay rebates. Be careful with them
  • #31
  • Oct 6, 2008 10:11am Oct 6, 2008 10:11am
Quoting Sandyfx
Some time ago I made huge investigation. To be honest no one can give you guarantee 100% that your funds are in safety.Risk is always. Let's look at this from other point of view.Possibilities that brokerage company will go in bankruptcy is much higher than bank will bankrupt. That's why first step is to check brokerage company. As Dukascopy is not taking part in trading and this fact is important. Only way how this company can go in bankruptcy is if no one will trade. But with other marketmakers is much higher risk that this marketmaker will go in bankrupt.
Here is Sandyfx again, spreading false-hoods and pumping Dukascopy as always. There is NO INSURANCE on funds at Dukascopy. This what they even told me directly. This is very different from IB, which actually has SPIC and Loyd's London insurance, which together covers up to 1,000,000 USD in securities. This is more than you'll get in an American Bank. If you can prove so otherwise, then please, be my guest.

We like cold, hard facts here on FF not some random gossip used to pump a particular company.
  • #32
  • Oct 6, 2008 10:13am Oct 6, 2008 10:13am
Quoting Sandyfx
I will never go with IB as they refused to some clients pay rebates. Be careful with them

Rebates on what? Be careful about Sandyfx's pumping of Dukascopy. Just check his previous posts... it's all he/she ever does and I intend to call him/her on it everytime it happens.
  • #33
  • Oct 6, 2008 10:20am Oct 6, 2008 10:20am
Yes Sandy is pushing for Dukascopy since like forever..

IB grants volume based commission-discounts like every other ECN (including Dukas).
  • #34
  • Oct 6, 2008 11:35am Oct 6, 2008 11:35am
Quoting fxterrapin
This is very different from IB, which actually has SPIC and Loyd's London insurance, which together covers up to 1,000,000 USD in securities.
$1mil in cash coverage, $30mil in securities coverage.
  • #35
  • Oct 6, 2008 12:04pm Oct 6, 2008 12:04pm
IB
  • #36
  • Oct 6, 2008 12:27pm Oct 6, 2008 12:27pm
Quoting Trader KGB
$1mil in cash coverage, $30mil in securities coverage.
Thanks for the correction! You are right.
  • #37
  • Oct 6, 2008 4:16pm Oct 6, 2008 4:16pm
Hello, Sandyfx did not seem to "pump" Dukascopy anymore than you have riled her in responses, probably less.

From what I understand of Dukascopy they are a fair broker. I would like to see Hibbiz opinion here, as he endorses them and cares very much about security of investor's funds.

Rebates are given from spreads, if you are an introducing broker you may have this in a contract, such as recieving 0.5-1 pips per trade taken from the spread.

How has IBFX reacted since no longer dealing with FXLQ?
  • #38
  • Oct 6, 2008 7:41pm Oct 6, 2008 7:41pm
Quoting Samuri
Been trying for the demo platform of Dukascopy today, with a very nice result.

In a way, they have almost everything I need. Tight spreads, comprehensive order types, reasonable commission, stable connection. Only thing still worries me is the fund safety.

Will go live with them and keep you all informed about any progress.

Thanks my FF friends.

Samuri
Ask them about a segregated account, you may find they will ablige you if you are willing to put your money in a swiss bank.
  • #39
  • Oct 6, 2008 8:28pm Oct 6, 2008 8:28pm
Quoting HipsterPipster
Ask them about a segregated account, you may find they will ablige you if you are willing to put your money in a swiss bank.
With a sketchy bank no one's heard of and a guarantee letter with the Duka president listed as the beneficiary. Don't waste your time, trust me. I and others have already been down this route, complete waste of time it turned out to be.
  • #40
  • Oct 7, 2008 12:34pm Oct 7, 2008 12:34pm
Quoting Samuri
To those experienced traders here,

After almost 5 years of struggle in this beloved field, I come to the result that I am ready to go to the next stage.

My system still belongs to short-term trading(if not intra-day), and I will hold no positions during the weekend. Targeting pairs only 5, eurusd, audusd, usdjpy, eurjpy, audjpy. Weekly average volume is around 10M(round), based on the account equity of USD100k.

It is highly appreciated that you may give me some advise on the available reliable brokers out there.

Refco, CMS, Xpresstrade, RCG, MBT were my former brokers. The latter two I am now still using with satisfaction in a way. Who else, please!

Samuri
Hi Samuri, I suggest you take your money to a high-quality and secure broker such as dbfx. They do not necessarily "play" to the retail trader, but their services are industry-leading(such as Thomson-IFR markets feeds), liqudity is good(no more "chart spikes"), and their prices are competitive(2 pip spread on EURUSD). But, most of all, they are essentially Deutsche Bank... and with retail brokers falling left and right, finding with a SECURE broker should be first and foremost in your decision-making. Also, a lot of pople have said they are just "FXCM"... which is not true... they just use the same platform. The Marketscope charting software is horrible, but if you just open up Metatrader on a demo account and use the Trading Station platform for execution, you'll be good.

Hope that helps.
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