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  • #21
  • Sep 24, 2008 10:37am Sep 24, 2008 10:37am
Quoting steelhead
Understood I dont go through every candle though. I have specific timeframe candles i trade and only during london and new york. It really is a pretty simple system

Indeed, the significance of any signals are really dependent on the time zone it happens in as well.
  • #22
  • Sep 24, 2008 11:46am Sep 24, 2008 11:46am
Hi Steelhead,

Very interesting concept. Do you mind elaborating on the way you trade? I know you mentioned 4 hr candle testing s/r and closing with very little wick. What else are you looking for? The monthly pivots look like good reversal oppertunities.

Thanks
  • #23
  • Sep 24, 2008 12:07pm Sep 24, 2008 12:07pm
Nice to see a civil discussion, with respect for other views. Keep it up!
  • #24
  • Sep 24, 2008 12:15pm Sep 24, 2008 12:15pm
Quoting FXoffshore
Nice to see a civil discussion, with respect for other views. Keep it up!
THANKS
  • #25
  • Sep 24, 2008 1:59pm Sep 24, 2008 1:59pm
Technical indicators can be excellent visual and mathematical tools.
Here are some of my thoughts on using indicators:

1. Trade in the same direction as the market momentum (trend).

2. Divergences can signal potential exhaustion, but a break in the divergence pattern in the direction of previous momentum is an even better continuation signal.

3. Use the indicator to confirm price action (i.e. a trend line break on the price chart and a trend line break on the oscillator).

4. Indicators lag, but they also smooth, which makes them especially useful for smaller timeframes.

5. Indicators can also provide good suggestions for trailing stops (SAR, MA's, Fratals, etc)
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  • #26
  • Sep 24, 2008 2:31pm Sep 24, 2008 2:31pm
indicators are training wheels one day they must go. are you still riding a tricycle?

many people use too many indicators,that totally confuse them. a human being can't handle too many inputs. Imagine having 5 indicators, 5 different timeframes for 3-5 currencies? the more input you have the less likely your brain would be able to absorb information and produce a good trade.

plus indicators smooth the price hiding important clues about supply and demand, the main and only principles that drive the market.
  • #27
  • Sep 24, 2008 2:36pm Sep 24, 2008 2:36pm
Quoting Rosscub
Technical indicators can be excellent visual and mathematical tools.
Here are some of my thoughts on using indicators:

1. Trade in the same direction as the market momentum (trend).

2. Divergences can signal potential exhaustion, but a break in the divergence pattern in the direction of previous momentum is an even better continuation signal.

3. Use the indicator to confirm price action (i.e. a trend line break on the price chart and a trend line break on the oscillator).

4. Indicators lag, but they also smooth, which makes them especially useful for smaller timeframes.

5. Indicators can also provide good suggestions for trailing stops (SAR, MA's, Fratals, etc)
Yes I share similar thoughts too.
  • #28
  • Sep 24, 2008 2:44pm Sep 24, 2008 2:44pm
Quoting denbur
indicators are training wheels one day they must go. are you still riding a tricycle?

many people use too many indicators,that totally confuse them. a human being can't handle too many inputs. Imagine having 5 indicators, 5 different timeframes for 3-5 currencies? the more input you have the less likely your brain would be able to absorb information and produce a good trade.

plus indicators smooth the price hiding important clues about supply and demand, the main and only principles that drive the market.
Ha of course people are going to have a headache using 5 indicators. I myself don't advocate using so many of them as well.

If using the tricycle makes the whole process easier, why not ?

On indicators smoothing prices and hiding important areas of supply and demand, I agree. Like all forms of analytical methods, it has its drawbacks.
  • #29
  • Sep 24, 2008 3:22pm Sep 24, 2008 3:22pm
Quoting denbur
indicators are training wheels one day they must go. are you still riding a tricycle?

many people use too many indicators,that totally confuse them. a human being can't handle too many inputs. Imagine having 5 indicators, 5 different timeframes for 3-5 currencies? the more input you have the less likely your brain would be able to absorb information and produce a good trade.

plus indicators smooth the price hiding important clues about supply and demand, the main and only principles that drive the market.
I believe this is a poor analogy. The use of indicators is no more elementary or less complex than price action patterns. It is simply applying the same skills to a different element of trading. In fact, it's my opinion that learning to trade price action is actually easier than learning to successfully implement technical indicators. As you rightly said, indicators can overwhelm the new trader, but for an advanced trader, indicators can provide additional information that can be useful for trading.
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  • #30
  • Sep 24, 2008 4:27pm Sep 24, 2008 4:27pm
I believe you could merge both threads together by saying that if you can pick up patterns out of PA and indicators are based on price itself, then it is only logical that you can pick up patterns on indicators or a combination of. Where indicators may fail is when they are combined in a way that does not make sense to their originally intended purpose. You can say an indicator based system does not work (some do some don't) but you can not say indicators don't work.
Please pull my head out of my ass, I am running out of oxygen...
  • #31
  • Sep 24, 2008 6:23pm Sep 24, 2008 6:23pm
Nothing works 100% of the time.

Not even PA or S/R.

If it did, we'd all be gazillion airs and there'd be no such thing as world poverty.

Limit the losses (they are inevitable - those who say they never lose are flat out liars) and ride the gains.

Use whatever indicator works for you and suits your style.

AND don't bash others that do not trade your style.
  • #32
  • Sep 24, 2008 6:57pm Sep 24, 2008 6:57pm
Quoting NuckingFuts
Nothing works 100% of the time.

Not even PA or S/R.

If it did, we'd all be gazillion airs and there'd be no such thing as world poverty.

Limit the losses (they are inevitable - those who say they never lose are flat out liars) and ride the gains.

Use whatever indicator works for you and suits your style.

AND don't bash others that do not trade your style.
Here, here!
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  • #33
  • Sep 24, 2008 7:36pm Sep 24, 2008 7:36pm
Quoting NuckingFuts
Use whatever indicator works for you and suits your style.

AND don't bash others that do not trade your style.
  • #34
  • Sep 25, 2008 3:19am Sep 25, 2008 3:19am
Thanks for all the inputs !

Indeed the use of indicators can be helpful for any trading style. They are invented for a reason and purpose.

The problem with learning to use an indicator is somewhat akin to learning to trade another person's system. A profitable system when used by somebody else other than the inventor very often do not work. When its does work, it usually entails a series of trail and error before seeing any sucess.
  • #35
  • Sep 25, 2008 10:25am Sep 25, 2008 10:25am
Quoting aiyahmarklah
Ok my apologies here. I do not know everything.

But I am going to give you another lazy answer, keep it simple and use only 1 or 2 indicators alongside price action.

Besides, you are asking me whether those are buys or sells, those are answers you already should have, use it the way the indicator is intended. Your confusion is likely because of conflict of info due to a chart too clogged up as different indicators uses different concepts.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Yeah!!! I understand what you say. That was a lazy answer but a very smart one.
My point is that something went wrong in this chart which it’s not mine.
I want to know everybody’s opinion. I just wanted to know some answers to learn about what went wrong.
But I see that you guys are just showing off and you don’t care about learning or sharing knowledge.
I’m wasting my time here.
Life is a party!!! will you seat or will you dance?
  • #36
  • Sep 25, 2008 11:15am Sep 25, 2008 11:15am
wow ok
  • #37
  • Sep 25, 2008 11:15am Sep 25, 2008 11:15am
Quoting sincronic
Hi,
Check this out…A long position (blue triangle) at around 9:AM because the pair was bouncing off the lower bolinger band and off the trendline (shown in yellow).
The RSI bounced off the oversold line too. The stop loss was set at the lowest of the last 2 candles (15 min candles).
Was it supposes to take profit when the pair was reaching the pivot point of the long wick at around 6 am?
Or was it supposes not to go long at all?
What do you think?

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong as you seem to have a good grasp of the technicals you are using and also knew where your stop loss was before entering the trade. Just because a trade doesn't work out, it doesn't mean that you made a mistake. Sometimes trades just don't work out.
  • #38
  • Sep 26, 2008 7:22am Sep 26, 2008 7:22am
While I have some time in between trades I thought I would share an example of how you can use indicators profitably.

In the example below we have obvious upward momentum (price remains mostly above the 20 MA, the CCI is mostly above 0, and the RSI is mostly above 50). Then we begin to see some negative divergence (I don't use divergence to counter trend trade) between price and the CCI. Afterwards we could also draw a small downward trend line on both price and the oscillator. We can also draw a horizontal trendline on both price and the indicator to find a levels of resistance. Now, when price makes a break north and through the downward and horizontal line, as does the CCI (effectively ending the divergence pattern), we have a good entry. You could have trailed the SAR and earned around 40 pips.

On a 1 minute chart, these type of setups happen frequently.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #39
  • Sep 26, 2008 7:41am Sep 26, 2008 7:41am
Quoting Rosscub
While I have some time in between trades I thought I would share an example of how you can use indicators profitably.

In the example below we have obvious upward momentum (price remains mostly above the 20 MA, the CCI is mostly above 0, and the RSI is mostly above 50). Then we begin to see some negative divergence (I don't use divergence to counter trend trade) between price and the CCI. Afterwards we could also draw a small downward trend line on both price and the oscillator. We can also draw a horizontal trendline on both price and the indicator to find a levels of resistance. Now, when price makes a break north and through the downward and horizontal line, as does the CCI (effectively ending the divergence pattern), we have a good entry. You could have trailed the SAR and earned around 40 pips.

On a 1 minute chart, these type of setups happen frequently.
Nice setup ! Can I ask how do you determine bullish or bearish bias ? Besides the 20 MA, what if other time frames presents conflicting information ?
  • #40
  • Sep 26, 2008 8:08am Sep 26, 2008 8:08am
Quoting aiyahmarklah
Nice setup ! Can I ask how do you determine bullish or bearish bias ? Besides the 20 MA, what if other time frames presents conflicting information ?
I only concern myself with the timeframe I'm trading on, so if I'm trading the 5 minute chart, I don't worry about what is happening on the 1 hour.

The main method I use for determining trend is through the breaking of fractals. If a fractal is outside my bands (either bollinger or keltner) and it is broken (higher highs or lower lows), I trade in that direction.

If that explanation wasn't clear, I'll try to further clarify.

I hope that helps.
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