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  • #81
  • Sep 17, 2008 9:27am Sep 17, 2008 9:27am
This seems like to good group to ask for this...I am looking for a good book explaining advance candlestick formations. If any of you have read or have any suggestions it would greatly appreciated.

I have read Martin Prings latest book on price action and his focus is on OHLC bar.

I would like to get a similar outlook on advanced candlestick formations to get another view.
  • #82
  • Sep 17, 2008 10:27am Sep 17, 2008 10:27am
Quoting eagle4x
A good time to explain the rules would have been when you 1st posted the original strategy. You didn't mention anything then about a stop, only that you would go long where the lines were. Again, those red candlesticks without wicks are bearish signals, not bullish. If you don't agree - find some articles stating otherwise, and post it in this thread.

Eagle the reason i didnt post my rules of engagement again was cause i wasnt starting this thread to talk about my trading. As we moved along you are right I probably should have explained a little more in detail what I look for. So I agree with you on that.

Let me again though talk about why fibo's should not be used to base a trade on solely. Most traders place very tight stops on trade usually 30-40 pips. Majority of the time the currency will go past the fibo levels 30-40 pips get the stops out then go in the direction the trader wanted it too. Its called stop hunting and it is real. Anyone who doesnt believe in that is crazy. Stop hunting happens everyday on every currency.

So in order for the fibo levels to work and they can there has to be a setup to go along with it. Otherwise trading with it with a tight stop lose you will be shark bait.

These folks who move the market also know how and when most retail traders trade. They will and I repeat will create the conditions to get you on the wrongside of the trade. Once they do that they will reverse it so fast you won't know what hit you. They know exactly how the herd trades if they can get the herd going in the wrong direction it is very profitable. Again anyone who doesnt believe that they care what retail traders are doing is flat out wrong. They care a great deal about it. They make money from it.

So unless there is a valid setup to go along with fibo levels then they are garbage. Do I really need to post a chart with examples of this. Those examples are all over the place.


Elliot waves, smas, mac d is the same thing. Unless there is a valid setup to acompany these indicators they are also garbage. I take it from the posts trying to discredit what I am saying that you all trade with these indicators. what happens when those indicators fail you? You go looking for the newest greatest indicator, and then when that fails you find another. It is a viscious cycle.

To consistantly be profitable you must look beyond them. Not saying you can have winning trades with indicators, but in the long run to sustain success you must look past them. You must see the bigger picture.
  • #83
  • Sep 17, 2008 10:33am Sep 17, 2008 10:33am
I echo the sentiments of those who point out that an indicator alone is what trading is about.

The very meaning of the word 'indicator' shows that indicators are meant to give you a 100% conlcusive entry or exit point. It indicates which means it shows what is likely, but not certain.

All indicators, I say ALL indicators are just plotting some formula of average(s). If you trade relying heavily on one or more chart indicators you are gambling. If you trade with an ear to the fundamentals, an eye on price action, and a nose into the technicals then you are trading. Hopefully, successfully.


good pips all.
  • #84
  • Sep 17, 2008 11:50am Sep 17, 2008 11:50am
Come on guys!!! Technical analysis it’s important but is not the most. Reading the candles, indicators and other indexes only describe the market…THEY DON’T PREDICT IT!!! Beside techs you have to support in a lot of thing. Trading backing up in only one kind of analysis would be like gambling and for that you better play poker.
  • #85
  • Sep 17, 2008 12:15pm Sep 17, 2008 12:15pm
Quoting fxid10t
Some interesting pdf's contained within zip file...

Also see link http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86429
Thanks for this!
  • #86
  • Sep 17, 2008 12:27pm Sep 17, 2008 12:27pm
In my opinion, support/resistance levels, in terms of price and time, have the final say.

Fibo support/resistance levels work well most of the time, especially when there are confluences from different Fib ranges. I don't see why something that works everywhere in the universe does not work in the financial markets.

I do agree that "indicator are just that, indicators". They indicate something, to support our decision, enter, exit or stay out. But both, indicators and support/resistance levels have to go hand in hand so we'll have a higher winning probability trades.
  • #87
  • Sep 17, 2008 12:37pm Sep 17, 2008 12:37pm
Quoting steelhead
Eagle the reason i didnt post my rules of engagement again was cause i wasnt starting this thread to talk about my trading. As we moved along you are right I probably should have explained a little more in detail what I look for. So I agree with you on that.

Let me again though talk about why fibo's should not be used to base a trade on solely. Most traders place very tight stops on trade usually 30-40 pips. Majority of the time the currency will go past the fibo levels 30-40 pips get the stops out then go in the direction the trader wanted it too. Its called stop hunting and it is real. Anyone who doesnt believe in that is crazy. Stop hunting happens everyday on every currency.

So in order for the fibo levels to work and they can there has to be a setup to go along with it. Otherwise trading with it with a tight stop lose you will be shark bait.

These folks who move the market also know how and when most retail traders trade. They will and I repeat will create the conditions to get you on the wrongside of the trade. Once they do that they will reverse it so fast you won't know what hit you. They know exactly how the herd trades if they can get the herd going in the wrong direction it is very profitable. Again anyone who doesnt believe that they care what retail traders are doing is flat out wrong. They care a great deal about it. They make money from it.

So unless there is a valid setup to go along with fibo levels then they are garbage. Do I really need to post a chart with examples of this. Those examples are all over the place.


Elliot waves, smas, mac d is the same thing. Unless there is a valid setup to acompany these indicators they are also garbage. I take it from the posts trying to discredit what I am saying that you all trade with these indicators. what happens when those indicators fail you? You go looking for the newest greatest indicator, and then when that fails you find another. It is a viscious cycle.

To consistantly be profitable you must look beyond them. Not saying you can have winning trades with indicators, but in the long run to sustain success you must look past them. You must see the bigger picture.
This is the reason why I don't post much anymore. People are so quick to tell everyone else they are wrong but when called out on it they use "it's not about my trading." Well, I hate to say it but it is. There are too many here that think they have the magic system or technique. Let me clue some people in on something. There are no magic systems or techniques. No one is wrong, all systems work at some point. The reason a system stops working is that the dynamic of the market has changed. The market is always changing. What works today may not work next month or next year. Indicators should NEVER be used alone or to base your trade decisions upon. Now those who say they are right and everyone is wrong without proving it don't impress me. Trading naked is a good system and is as reliable as recognizing candlestick patterns. Personally, I have many charts up and all my charts have the same indicators on them so I can see setups at a quick glance. Candlesticks are a good indicator of volume, which moves the price which moves the market (on technical days). The news and rumors are the main reason the market moves (fundamentals), not some sinister cartel of traders playing gottcha behind a computer. Brokers will stop hunt when market times are slow and do take opposite positions from their account holders. Also using multiple tfs is a must to see the big picture not getting rid of indicators. Some indicators are more powerful when used on higher tfs and not seeing them can cost dearly.

There are many reasons why new people fail, most of the time it's listening to the minority of posters who want to judge others but don't want to expose themselves to be judged or hide information behind a shroud of mystery and falsehoods or who think they know it all. Personally, I am not afraid to say I don't know it all, I'm glad the market teaches me new things every once in awhile.
  • #88
  • Sep 17, 2008 12:45pm Sep 17, 2008 12:45pm
Quoting techtrader10
This is the reason why I don't post much anymore. People are so quick to tell everyone else they are wrong but when called out on it they use "it's not about my trading." Well, I hate to say it but it is. There are too many here that think they have the magic system or technique. Let me clue some people in on something. There are no magic systems or techniques. No one is wrong, all systems work at some point. The reason a system stops working is that the dynamic of the market has changed. The market is always changing. What works today may not work next month or next year. Indicators should NEVER be used alone or to base your trade decisions upon. Now those who say they are right and everyone is wrong without proving it don't impress me. Trading naked is a good system and is as reliable as recognizing candlestick patterns. Personally, I have many charts up and all my charts have the same indicators on them so I can see setups at a quick glance. Candlesticks are a good indicator of volume, which moves the price which moves the market (on technical days). The news and rumors are the main reason the market moves (fundamentals), not some sinister cartel of traders playing gottcha behind a computer. Brokers will stop hunt when market times are slow and do take opposite positions from their account holders. Also using multiple tfs is a must to see the big picture not getting rid of indicators. Some indicators are more powerful when used on higher tfs and not seeing them can cost dearly.

There are many reasons why new people fail, most of the time it's listening to the minority of posters who want to judge others but don't want to expose themselves to be judged or hide information behind a shroud of mystery and falsehoods or who think they know it all. Personally, I am not afraid to say I don't know it all, I'm glad the market teaches me new things every once in awhile.

Tech good post. I never claimed to know it all. I get stopped out of trades just like the rest of you. What I will say without hesitation is I am consistant in this market every month. I have losing trades but when the end of the month comes I am in profit. that is what everyone should strive for.


Do you really want me to get into my trading style? I can if you want but it won't help you. You will just critisize it and try to poke holes in it.
  • #89
  • Sep 17, 2008 1:29pm Sep 17, 2008 1:29pm
Ok I don't wish to get involved in your quarrels here but I just want to say a fair word on your purpose of this thread.

Some people prefer chicken to beef and if I prefer beef, I can't say chicken sucks.

Likewise, some people use indicators successfully and are happy with it. Some use clean charts and just use S/R, both make money, so why the complaints? I know for a plain fact that Martin Schwartz use indicators, Richard Dennis used indicators, the turtles used them, LBR uses them and so many others.

An indicator or system does not make a trader, the trader makes the indicator/system. I have this belief that the trader makes whatever they're using profitable.

Indicators have to just provide reasonably reliable indications of price movements, THEN the trader interprets it and trades it his own way. Like someone posted in this thread, indicators are like traffic lights, it's always good to have confirmation. So why the complaints?
  • #90
  • Sep 17, 2008 1:38pm Sep 17, 2008 1:38pm
the phone number on there is wrong though.


Its 480-980-3026 not 695-8017 lol
  • #91
  • Sep 17, 2008 1:59pm Sep 17, 2008 1:59pm
Quoting earret
This seems like to good group to ask for this...I am looking for a good book explaining advance candlestick formations. If any of you have read or have any suggestions it would greatly appreciated.

I have read Martin Prings latest book on price action and his focus is on OHLC bar.

I would like to get a similar outlook on advanced candlestick formations to get another view.
Have you tried Steve Nison?
  • #92
  • Sep 17, 2008 2:09pm Sep 17, 2008 2:09pm
Quoting steelhead
These folks who move the market also know how and when most retail traders trade. They will and I repeat will create the conditions to get you on the wrongside of the trade. Once they do that they will reverse it so fast you won't know what hit you. They know exactly how the herd trades if they can get the herd going in the wrong direction it is very profitable. Again anyone who doesnt believe that they care what retail traders are doing is flat out wrong. They care a great deal about it. They make money from it.
I'm not saying any of this is untrue but I will say I find it difficult to swallow the whole thing hook line and sinker. If you can provide irrefutable proof I'd love to see it.
  • #93
  • Sep 17, 2008 2:11pm Sep 17, 2008 2:11pm
Quoting opie999
I'm not saying any of this is untrue but I will say I find it difficult to swallow the whole thing hook line and sinker. If you can provide irrefutable proof I'd love to see it.

what more do you need other then account statement?


Its right there. Private message me or yahoo im me

[email protected]

that goes for anyone who wants more proof.
  • #94
  • Sep 17, 2008 2:29pm Sep 17, 2008 2:29pm
Quoting steelhead
Tech good post. I never claimed to know it all. I get stopped out of trades just like the rest of you. What I will say without hesitation is I am consistant in this market every month. I have losing trades but when the end of the month comes I am in profit. that is what everyone should strive for.


Do you really want me to get into my trading style? I can if you want but it won't help you. You will just critisize it and try to poke holes in it.
I'm not here to criticize your technique, that's not my job. I'm saying not to condemn indicators or people who use them. They serve the purpose they were intended to if people use them wrong then it is not the indicators fault. I too am consistent and make a profit weekly I congratulate you. I have always felt that we are not here to bicker or cast dispersions on each other, we ARE here to help the new people swim in our ocean. If you want to help these guys (and gals) then show them your trading style so they can see the difference. Some of these people probably don't even know what we're talking about. So, no, I won't pick it apart but I might ask a few questions that new people may not know to ask or maybe point some things out to you. Guys like us need to helping people to find what works for them and give them options not hindering them. If posting your style will help give them options I'm all for it.
  • #95
  • Sep 17, 2008 2:29pm Sep 17, 2008 2:29pm
Quoting clockwork71

If you cannot find the S/R line, you have two choices: 1) Zoom out farther and drop your leverage, or 2) Move on to the next pair.


Clockwork -

Shhhhhhh!

You have just revealed the holy grail! Do you want everyone to know it??

OK, now that the cat is out of the bag, who will believe it?


JohnW
Chance favors the prepared
  • #96
  • Sep 17, 2008 2:40pm Sep 17, 2008 2:40pm
Quoting steelhead
what more do you need other then account statement?


Its right there. Private message me or yahoo im me

[email protected]

that goes for anyone who wants more proof.
The statement only shows bad trades the person made not why it went bad. A reason for a trade going bad would be bad placement of the trade. For example placing a trade near support, central Banks place buys below these points and sells above resistance. So If someone places a sell at support and a CB has a buy order in below that, then we see a false breakout and traders will get stopped. An account statement does not show that.
  • #97
  • Sep 17, 2008 3:59pm Sep 17, 2008 3:59pm
Quote
These folks who move the market also know how and when most retail traders trade. They will and I repeat will create the conditions to get you on the wrongside of the trade. Once they do that they will reverse it so fast you won't know what hit you. They know exactly how the herd trades if they can get the herd going in the wrong direction it is very profitable. Again anyone who doesnt believe that they care what retail traders are doing is flat out wrong. They care a great deal about it. They make money from it.

Yes steelhead, very good point!

In knowing those traps you have the holy grail of trading.
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
  • #98
  • Sep 17, 2008 4:07pm Sep 17, 2008 4:07pm
Quoting earret
This seems like to good group to ask for this...I am looking for a good book explaining advance candlestick formations. If any of you have read or have any suggestions it would greatly appreciated.

I have read Martin Prings latest book on price action and his focus is on OHLC bar.

I would like to get a similar outlook on advanced candlestick formations to get another view.
Earret, I don't know if the following is what you mean by "advanced", but in this post (see "Candlestick Patterns" section), you'll find links to the best free candlestick analysis I've found thus far on the web.

Hope this helps,

David
  • #99
  • Edited 6:01pm Sep 17, 2008 4:32pm | Edited 6:01pm
Quoting steelhead
In this thread I will talk about why indicators should not be used to base trades on. I will discuss the reasons that they are not a reliable trading tool.

I was at the Forex Expo this weekend. I went to several meetings where they pitched elliot waves,emas, fibo's, mac d. I am going to tell you why these indicators are a trap.


I went to one meeting where the second comment they made was this. The more people that use the 61.8% fibo level the more reliable it becomes. I cannot think of another statement that could be further from the truth. That was a flat out lie. the worst part is this group had 35 people listening to them teach falsehoods.

I welcome discussion on the topic. This should be fun. I will also talk about how reading a chart, and price action is the way to become a consistant trader. You have to look at the bigger picture what is going on behind price.

Questions are welcome I will answer them all.
Indicators won't necessarily fail you... relying solely on them during intra-day trading will. If you don't have a fundamental outlook for the market, you're technical trading is most likely going to falter. I use indicators as "triggers" to make trades(i.e. 50% Fibo retracement levels from the GBPUSD trend up on a month chart supported the current downtrend).

Many of the biggest traders(hedge funds, institutions, banks) in the world base their trades on technical indicators. However, almost all "big money" investors look very long term as opposed to 5 minute chart-happy forex traders. The reason why longer-term technical indicators work more is simply because the more likely big money investors with technical indicators share the same points of support/resistance or overbought/oversold, etc.

Anyway, indicators are just that... indicators. You can very rarely rely on them only to predict a trade, but more to indicate a price in which a currency is showing certain weaknesses or strengths.
  • #100
  • Sep 17, 2008 4:52pm Sep 17, 2008 4:52pm
Quoting steelhead
These folks who move the market also know how and when most retail traders trade. They will and I repeat will create the conditions to get you on the wrongside of the trade. Once they do that they will reverse it so fast you won't know what hit you. They know exactly how the herd trades if they can get the herd going in the wrong direction it is very profitable. Again anyone who doesnt believe that they care what retail traders are doing is flat out wrong. They care a great deal about it. They make money from it.
Steelhead, I see your points in thinking that "the folks who move the market" are trading against you and in some ways you are correct. Big money does make better trades more consistently then retail traders so they are trading "against" retail traders. Though, they aren't necessarily looking at your trade... they just know how to trade.

But "big money" is not out to get you... and they do not trade directly against you. The market is a Zero Sum game... whenever you are winning, someone is losing... and whenever you are losing, someone is winning. Does that mean there is somebody on the other end of your trade, trading specifically against you? No, it just means that if you long 1,000k of EURUSD, somewhere else in the world, 1,000k of EURUSD is being split up among maybe hundreds of traders who are shorting the position.

A retail trader's equity is so miniscule compared to "Big money" that they could care less whether you win or lose because someone around the world will be there to fill their trade(not solely retail traders, but a collection of other banks, institutions, traders, and individuals).

So, basically, don't try to "beat the system"... the system has worked for years before retail traders were ever allowed into this market. Just continue to build your strategies, models, risk management, and market knowledge and before you know it, you'll be trading like the "big money" that retail traders so envy.
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