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  • #41
  • Sep 16, 2008 5:03pm Sep 16, 2008 5:03pm
Quoting Code4Capital
Hey man, find me some more charts, I want some more Pips tonight =)

I think you are missing the point. the point is you dont take a trade just because of fibo levels. There still has to be a setup.

Im not hear to argue with you. good job on your trade
  • #42
  • Sep 16, 2008 5:11pm Sep 16, 2008 5:11pm
Hey,

Im a newbie to the site, very nice reading! it has taken me two years to overlook what "those seminars" pump you full of......crap

thanks,
Jake
  • #43
  • Sep 16, 2008 5:54pm Sep 16, 2008 5:54pm
I've read differing stories about that, but personally I don't believe it. Otherwise all of us little guys better stop trading now.

Quoting steelhead
Eagle they have everything to gain by you losing. this is a zero sum game. witch means folks make money by others losing.

You get enough retail traders on the wrongside of the trade and it can be very profitable.

Don't fool yourself into thinking they dont care about retail traders cause they do. Some of the easiest money they make come from the herd of retail traders.
  • #44
  • Sep 16, 2008 6:10pm Sep 16, 2008 6:10pm
Quoting eagle4x
I've read differing stories about that, but personally I don't believe it. Otherwise all of us little guys better stop trading now.

No you dont stop trading you learn to spot when they are putting there position in.

you learn to align yourself with them. If you dont learn that then your statement is 100% accurate
  • #45
  • Sep 16, 2008 6:26pm Sep 16, 2008 6:26pm
Deja vu

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...0&postcount=11
Visit my journal here.
  • #46
  • Sep 16, 2008 6:49pm Sep 16, 2008 6:49pm
It constantly amazes me how people feel the need to start threads bashing how others trade and say that indicators suck only to follow it up by saying I trade price action and bar formations, like that makes you some sort of hero. Guess what that pin bar you just placed a trade on is nothing but an indicator and it told you what happened in the past.

Now if we are smart we should be using solid S/R lines of the monthly, weekly, daily charts to pinpoint areas to trade and then use pa or an indicator to help confirm the direction of the trade to get in.

The funny thing is any idiot can get into a trade based off of an, indicator, pa, s/r, a flip of a coin, etc, but where the men are separated from the boys is how you manage your trade as this is where the money is made.

The bottom line is each trader has to find their own way and learn what works for them, the problem is most people are sheep and can't think for themselves I mean honestly why else would George Bush be elected to 2 terms in office.
  • #47
  • Sep 16, 2008 6:56pm Sep 16, 2008 6:56pm
Interesting thread, Steelhead. While I agree with your main premise that technical indicators are best as confirmation tools - not as decision makers, I have yet to understand what you do promote? Perhaps show me real-time a chart, and a trade you are entering, and the reasons you took it?

So far most of what I got from reading your thread is how much you think everyone else is a joke, and how stupid the masses are. So what. Tell me your secret why you are making tons of money and show me your charts please, without bashing other methods?
  • #48
  • Sep 16, 2008 6:56pm Sep 16, 2008 6:56pm
Quoting endroute
It constantly amazes me how people feel the need to start threads bashing how others trade and say that indicators suck only to follow it up by saying I trade price action and bar formations, like that makes you some sort of hero. Guess what that pin bar you just placed a trade on is nothing but an indicator and it told you what happened in the past.

Now if we are smart we should be using solid S/R lines of the monthly, weekly, daily charts to pinpoint areas to trade and then use pa or an indicator to help confirm the direction of the trade to get in.

The funny thing is any idiot can get into a trade based off of an, indicator, pa, s/r, a flip of a coin, etc, but where the men are separated from the boys is how you manage your trade as this is where the money is made.

The bottom line is each trader has to find their own way and learn what works for them, the problem is most people are sheep and can't think for themselves I mean honestly why else would George Bush be elected to 2 terms in office.

that is basicall what we are talking about man. Support and resistance are huge. Again though there still has to be a setup otherwise those areas dont mean a thing.

I totally agree on looking at the longerterm charts. That is what you should be doing.

You basically agree
  • #49
  • Sep 16, 2008 7:04pm Sep 16, 2008 7:04pm
I agree. Also, that 4hr MACD strategy over on the Trading Systems section must be performing well with over 2 million views and over 17 thousand replies.

Quoting endroute
It constantly amazes me how people feel the need to start threads bashing how others trade and say that indicators suck only to follow it up by saying I trade price action and bar formations, like that makes you some sort of hero. Guess what that pin bar you just placed a trade on is nothing but an indicator and it told you what happened in the past.

Now if we are smart we should be using solid S/R lines of the monthly, weekly, daily charts to pinpoint areas to trade and then use pa or an indicator to help confirm the direction of the trade to get in.

The funny thing is any idiot can get into a trade based off of an, indicator, pa, s/r, a flip of a coin, etc, but where the men are separated from the boys is how you manage your trade as this is where the money is made.

The bottom line is each trader has to find their own way and learn what works for them, the problem is most people are sheep and can't think for themselves I mean honestly why else would George Bush be elected to 2 terms in office.
  • #50
  • Sep 16, 2008 7:27pm Sep 16, 2008 7:27pm
I'm still waiting on an answer to my question from post #37. So, if all indicators fail, show us specifically how you trade. Based on your rationale, how is trading using support/resistance any different from trading with fibs? There are a huge group of traders that trades S/R and a huge group of traders that trade fibs.

Now you are saying that you advocate using support/resistance, which is subjective vs. indicators which are more objective?

Quoting steelhead
that is basicall what we are talking about man. Support and resistance are huge. Again though there still has to be a setup otherwise those areas dont mean a thing.

I totally agree on looking at the longerterm charts. That is what you should be doing.

You basically agree
  • #51
  • Sep 16, 2008 8:00pm Sep 16, 2008 8:00pm
Quoting eagle4x
I'm still waiting on an answer to my question from post #37. So, if all indicators fail, show us specifically how you trade. Based on your rationale, how is trading using support/resistance any different from trading with fibs? There are a huge group of traders that trades S/R and a huge group of traders that trade fibs.

Now you are saying that you advocate using support/resistance, which is subjective vs. indicators which are more objective?

Eagle i am a fan of support and resistance levels for sure, but you are still missing the point that I have been talking about time and time again. there still has to be a setup.

I have said this many times why is that ignored. Support and resistance is an area not an exact number.


I will post charts but most won't believe it. this thread was started to talk about the falisies of indicators not to talk about the way I trade
  • #52
  • Sep 16, 2008 8:01pm Sep 16, 2008 8:01pm
here is an article on support for resistance, technical analysis that was done by Carol Osler at the fed if anyone is interested
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf s r tech analysis fx by the fed.PDF   127 KB | 1,164 downloads
  • #53
  • Sep 16, 2008 8:32pm Sep 16, 2008 8:32pm
here is a chart of e/u four hour time frame. The lines indicate places where i would get long. A four hour close with no wick is a good entry.


None of those three trades were losing trades.


The last one was good for over 400 pips.


Again though this isnt about my trading style. This is about educating newbies on the falisies of indicator based trading.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #54
  • Sep 16, 2008 9:20pm Sep 16, 2008 9:20pm
Sarchin - thanks for the Fed article reviewing S&R.

 

  1. Osler correctly categorizes S&R as a technical indicator.

Quote
One numerical rule used to infer support and resistance levels is the “50 percent rule,” which asserts that a major market move will often be reversed by about 50 percent in the first major correction (Pring, p. 187). Fibonacci series, which are widely used, suggest that 38.2 percent and 61.8 percent retracements of recent rises or declines are common.

S&R lines are often formed by Fibonacci, so to destroy the credibility of Fibo undermines your entire premise as illogical.

Quote
More than 70 percent of the support and resistance levels in the sample end in 0, and a full 96 percent end in either 0 or 5

  1. When Osler asked 6 firms for S&L, she got 6 different answers, and the results given had wide discrepancies. They may also be a "self-fulfilling" effect with S&R, if enough traders use the same level from the same source. (deja vu).

I am not against S&R use - I use them to some degree, but it is another mundane technical indicator to confirm a trade - not make it.

  • #55
  • Sep 16, 2008 9:36pm Sep 16, 2008 9:36pm
The chart you posted is already history. Why don't you post one right now, and based your rationale, what is the market movement going to be, up, down or sideways for Wednesday London session, Steelhead?
It's best to show a live example.

Quoting steelhead
here is a chart of e/u four hour time frame. The lines indicate places where i would get long. A four hour close with no wick is a good entry.


None of those three trades were losing trades.


The last one was good for over 400 pips.


Again though this isnt about my trading style. This is about educating newbies on the falisies of indicator based trading.
  • #56
  • Sep 16, 2008 9:40pm Sep 16, 2008 9:40pm
I think you are the newbie here. Where did you learn about candlesticks from? No wick and red candlesticks are bearish symbols, not bullish. Besides the first long red candlestick in the upper left corner of your chart doesn't have a wick. If you had underlined that too and included in your trade example, you would have an overall loss, not gain. How long have you been trading candlesticks using your system? How profitable has it been for you? Again, as I stated before, candlesticks are indicators!

Quoting steelhead
here is a chart of e/u four hour time frame. The lines indicate places where i would get long. A four hour close with no wick is a good entry.


None of those three trades were losing trades.


The last one was good for over 400 pips.


Again though this isnt about my trading style. This is about educating newbies on the falisies of indicator based trading.
  • #57
  • Sep 16, 2008 10:05pm Sep 16, 2008 10:05pm
Quoting eagle4x
I think you are the newbie here. Where did you learn about candlesticks from? No wick and red candlesticks are bearish symbols, not bullish. Besides the first long red candlestick in the upper left corner of your chart doesn't have a wick. If you had underlined that too and included in your trade example, you would have an overall loss, not gain. How long have you been trading candlesticks using your system? How profitable has it been for you? Again, as I stated before, candlesticks are indicators!
your statement that candles with no wicks are bearish is completly false. I mean I dont know any other way to put it. Completely false. that line of thinking is what makes it so funny. Go back and look at the history of what happens when you get a close of four hour red candle into s/r areas. Your other statement of the candle to the left making all the trades i highlighted overall losses is a misstatement of the truth as well. when taking trades based on four hour candle closes you also take into account the time of day it is. I usually only trade london and new york session


Like I said if I post a chart showing how i trade it would not do any good.

This thread is not about my trading style how many times must I say that. I have traded fulltime for three years and am very succesful at it.

I started this thread to help folks look at the market without the help on indicators.

this thread was not meant to talk about my trading style.

I welcome the critics just actually read what the post says before you tear it down.
  • #58
  • Sep 16, 2008 10:07pm Sep 16, 2008 10:07pm
Quoting steelhead
here is a chart of e/u four hour time frame. The lines indicate places where i would get long. A four hour close with no wick is a good entry.


None of those three trades were losing trades.


The last one was good for over 400 pips.


Again though this isnt about my trading style. This is about educating newbies on the falisies of indicator based trading.
Nice chart, looks almost equal to mine. But i try to find out where Limit Orders are set based on S/R. I pay attention to confirmed S/R Levels because on those level price bounces most of the times.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #59
  • Sep 16, 2008 10:11pm Sep 16, 2008 10:11pm
secondly eagle if you are talking about the first red candle with no wick being a losing trade you are again wrong. Its called managing a trade. Once a trade is up a certain amount of pips it should never become a losing trade. Once i get up 50 pips or so my stop usually goes to entry.

that candle you talk about closed at 1.4496 and made a high of 1.4545 that should never ever become a losing trade. When you have a game plan in place before entering a trade then eliminate the risk all is good. So again up over 40 pips on that trade stop at entry how is it a loser?

I love how you assume I am a newbie you know nothing about me. Stop assuming you know anything about me.

I know what i am doing Eagle been at this a long time. I will tell you again indicators in the long run will get you in major trouble.
  • #60
  • Sep 16, 2008 10:17pm Sep 16, 2008 10:17pm
Engulfing Candles

http://www.tradingcurrencyonline.com/images/jap_5.jpg






Quoting steelhead
your statement that candles with no wicks are bearish is completly false. I mean I dont know any other way to put it. Completely false. that line of thinking is what makes it so funny. Go back and look at the history of what happens when you get a close of four hour red candle into s/r areas. Your other statement of the candle to the left making all the trades i highlighted overall losses is a misstatement of the truth as well. when taking trades based on four hour candle closes you also take into account the time of day it is. I usually only trade london and new york session


Like I said if I post a chart showing how i trade it would not do any good.

This thread is not about my trading style how many times must I say that. I have traded fulltime for three years and am very succesful at it.

I started this thread to help folks look at the market without the help on indicators.

this thread was not meant to talk about my trading style.

I welcome the critics just actually read what the post says before you tear it down.
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