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BIG MONEY trades which bank/broker etc...

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 1, 2008 9:10am Sep 1, 2008 9:10am
...curious to know if anyone here trades in volumes of 10-100Bil a month, if so what kind of commissions/spreads can one expect. Can you get instant fills on very large orders when you trade with the big boys etc? I ask because Dukascopy only shows about 300-350Mil at any given time during very active market periods. Anyone have any input?
  • #2
  • Sep 1, 2008 3:30pm Sep 1, 2008 3:30pm
Quoting fxRichard
...curious to know if anyone here trades in volumes of 10-100Bil a month, if so what kind of commissions/spreads can one expect. Can you get instant fills on very large orders when you trade with the big boys etc? I ask because Dukascopy only shows about 300-350Mil at any given time during very active market periods. Anyone have any input?
You mean, if there is anyone who scalps with 50 - 100 mil positions? I highly doubt that. Besides, any move with this size of transaction is likely to influence market, a pip or two, but this will hurt you if you are really high frequency scalper. I do see daily trades of 100 mil and up but those are done not in a scalping manner at all.

The way I see it, scalping for <10 pips is a poor man's job in forex. Big boys are likely to be a bit more strategic or "scalp" for much more pips at a time.

I recently graduated from demo into life accounts and the experience was very "Awakening", interface is the same, market data too yet, it feels and behaves soooo much differently. I learned the hard way (5-digit way) to be very careful and quite a bit more conservative then in demos. At least until I get back what I lost to the market . Low leverage is a must, you do not want to be caught in unexpected fast "slide" against you with a highly leveraged position. Because you cannot bail, you will not fill even 100k.

Another lesson was that scalping for anything less then 7 pips is basically feeding the broker and providing liquidity while taking unjustified risks.

YMMW of course.

P.s I trade on good CX hub.
  • #3
  • Sep 1, 2008 3:37pm Sep 1, 2008 3:37pm
Quoting don.key
You mean, if there is anyone who scalps with 50 - 100 mil positions? I highly doubt that. Besides, any move with this size of transaction is likely to influence market, a pip or two, but this will hurt you if you are really high frequency scalper. I do see daily trades of 100 mil and up but those are done not in a scalping manner at all.

The way I see it, scalping for <10 pips is a poor man's job in forex. Big boys are likely to be a bit more strategic or "scalp" for much more pips at a time.

I recently graduated from demo into life accounts and the experience was very "Awakening", interface is the same, market data too yet, it feels and behaves soooo much differently. I learned the hard way (5-digit way) to be very careful and quite a bit more conservative then in demos. At least until I get back what I lost to the market . Low leverage is a must, you do not want to be caught in unexpected fast "slide" against you with a highly leveraged position. Because you cannot bail, you will not fill even 100k.

Another lesson was that scalping for anything less then 7 pips is basically feeding the broker and providing liquidity while taking unjustified risks.

YMMW of course.

P.s I trade on good CX hub.
No one said anything about scalping for < 10 pips, and trust me I am NOT poor Thanks for the input though
  • #4
  • Sep 1, 2008 3:40pm Sep 1, 2008 3:40pm
Whahaha...did you anwser the question or you just wanted to lecture?

Every pip is money...give my your 70mil. a 7 pips, you keep the rest... I'm happy...so are you...
  • #5
  • Sep 2, 2008 6:39pm Sep 2, 2008 6:39pm
as far as i know at ducascopy you can have slipage even when you only trade 1/2 mil they have alot of liquidity but only on the second or third level which widens your spread with ib you can have up to 20 mil liquidity in the first level so in my opinion big boys are with IB the downside if you trade outside the US it may take up to 170 ms (check your ping with them) maybe less or more to get filled so excecution is a little bit faster at ducascopy but this depends where your location is
  • #6
  • Sep 2, 2008 6:47pm Sep 2, 2008 6:47pm
Quoting fxRichard
...curious to know if anyone here trades in volumes of 10-100Bil a month, if so what kind of commissions/spreads can one expect. Can you get instant fills on very large orders when you trade with the big boys etc? I ask because Dukascopy only shows about 300-350Mil at any given time during very active market periods. Anyone have any input?
If you are doing that type of volume, you will need a professional platform with a prime broker attached.
HotspotFXI.com will be able to assist.
  • #7
  • Sep 4, 2008 7:41pm Sep 4, 2008 7:41pm
Quoting fxRichard
No one said anything about scalping for < 10 pips, and trust me I am NOT poor Thanks for the input though
True.

But the larger position traders (hedge funds, etc. that need liquid instruments to manage large funds) do not scalp. Those trades can last years.
  • #8
  • Sep 6, 2008 3:45am Sep 6, 2008 3:45am
Quoting don.key
You mean, if there is anyone who scalps with 50 - 100 mil positions? I highly doubt that. Besides, any move with this size of transaction is likely to influence market, a pip or two, but this will hurt you if you are really high frequency scalper. I do see daily trades of 100 mil and up but those are done not in a scalping manner at all.

The way I see it, scalping for <10 pips is a poor man's job in forex. Big boys are likely to be a bit more strategic or "scalp" for much more pips at a time. hahahaha. Obv someone who does not know what he does not know.

I recently graduated from demo into life accounts and the experience was very "Awakening", interface is the same, market data too yet, it feels and behaves soooo much differently. I learned the hard way (5-digit way) to be very careful and quite a bit more conservative then in demos. At least until I get back what I lost to the market . Low leverage is a must, Not at all a must!! you do not want to be caught in unexpected fast "slide" against you with a highly leveraged position. Because you cannot bail, you will not fill even 100k.

Another lesson was that scalping for anything less then 7 pips is basically feeding the broker and providing liquidity while taking unjustified risks.

YMMW of course.

P.s I trade on good CX hub.
Why not respond to the post and actually mention the name of this good cx hub!

Regards,
K.
  • #9
  • Sep 6, 2008 2:42pm Sep 6, 2008 2:42pm
Quoting fxRichard
...curious to know if anyone here trades in volumes of 10-100Bil a month, if so what kind of commissions/spreads can one expect. Can you get instant fills on very large orders when you trade with the big boys etc? I ask because Dukascopy only shows about 300-350Mil at any given time during very active market periods. Anyone have any input?
curious to know, are you asking because that is the sort of volume you'd be expecting to deal or you're just interested?
  • #10
  • Sep 6, 2008 4:04pm Sep 6, 2008 4:04pm
Quoting lasty
HotspotFXI.com will be able to assist.
Recently tested the live feed, was a bit underwhelmed by the both the depth and spreads. Shot from last week here. Granted that's the Asian session, but NY/Euro wasn't very different from a depth-of-book perspective. Most Currenex hubs (as well as IB) offer significantly greater liquidity (at least displayed liquidity, Iceberg orders notwithstanding).
  • #11
  • Sep 6, 2008 5:36pm Sep 6, 2008 5:36pm
I am not familiar with Hotspot FXi, is it showing Eur/Usd with 39 Mil total volume????
  • #12
  • Sep 6, 2008 11:04pm Sep 6, 2008 11:04pm
Quoting fxRichard
I am not familiar with Hotspot FXi, is it showing Eur/Usd with 39 Mil total volume????
That's just the total of the bid side, the offer side total is cut off. Again, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that's during the Asian session and any orders could be reserve/Iceberg orders.
  • #13
  • Edited 7:21am Sep 7, 2008 2:23am | Edited 7:21am
Quoting kermut
Why not respond to the post and actually mention the name of this good cx hub!

Regards,
K.
Kermut,

I am not a professional trader and I am new to Forex but I base my statement on real life talks with people in trading rooms of mid to large companies which trade 100+ millions per click daily (Due to nature of my business I come to see them time to time) . And there I learned that while scalping for little pips could indeed very well be profitable, it is considered "too much work for too little".
Maybe I am wrong, maybe I just happened to hit some "old school, boring" companies but unless I see it otherwise with my own eyes, I tend to believe more in what I see and hear from the real big money traders in first person.

In regards of leverage, to each its own. I was very optimistic about it when I started trading too (wanted to do 1:50) but learned otherwise. I also noticed a trend - the crappier the broker - the larger leverage it offers you. There are some with 1:400, LOL. I talked to some brokers which required 250+k deposits and they usually had leverage of less then 1:50. I see clear trend line here.
  • #14
  • Sep 7, 2008 3:46am Sep 7, 2008 3:46am
Those institutional traders that "over-leverage" and scalp 10 pips at a time have access to information that most of us will never get our hands on. It is very clear who has the advantage.

Also, I'm not sure what is meant by the "big boys"... are we talking about hedge fund position traders or institutional scalpers?
  • #15
  • Sep 7, 2008 8:10am Sep 7, 2008 8:10am
Quoting Trader KGB
That's just the total of the bid side, the offer side total is cut off. Again, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that's during the Asian session and any orders could be reserve/Iceberg orders.
That's not very much, during the Asian session I usually see well over 150Mil on each side with Dukascopy, during London and NY it can be over 350Mil per side.
  • #16
  • Sep 7, 2008 8:54am Sep 7, 2008 8:54am
Quoting Trader KGB
Recently tested the live feed, was a bit underwhelmed by the both the depth and spreads. Shot from last week here. Granted that's the Asian session, but NY/Euro wasn't very different from a depth-of-book perspective. Most Currenex hubs (as well as IB) offer significantly greater liquidity (at least displayed liquidity, Iceberg orders notwithstanding).

Thats indeed not very much (even MBT displays more than that sometimes), a few shots from euro/us-hours would have been more fair tho in my opinion..
  • #17
  • Sep 7, 2008 5:58pm Sep 7, 2008 5:58pm
Quoting fxRichard
That's not very much, during the Asian session I usually see well over 150Mil on each side with Dukascopy, during London and NY it can be over 350Mil per side.
Why not cut to the chase and get EBS.
  • #18
  • Sep 7, 2008 9:27pm Sep 7, 2008 9:27pm
Quoting lasty
Why not cut to the chase and get EBS.
what is EBS?
  • #19
  • Sep 7, 2008 9:29pm Sep 7, 2008 9:29pm
Quoting fxRichard
what is EBS?
Biggest FX wholesale broker.
What CCy pairs are you looking at ?
  • #20
  • Sep 7, 2008 10:11pm Sep 7, 2008 10:11pm
Quoting lasty
Biggest FX wholesale broker.
What CCy pairs are you looking at ?
Just EU and maybe EJ
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