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Comparison of AutoClick Services

  • #61
  • Feb 15, 2007 9:56pm Feb 15, 2007 9:56pm
Quoting zarni
Why would they report both Dmitri and Dustin then even if that were true? The story doesn't quite add up...

By the way the word is libel.
I would worry less about my spelling and more about telling facts.
  • #62
  • Feb 15, 2007 10:03pm Feb 15, 2007 10:03pm
Quoting ForexMuse
I notice that you never answer my questions.. just keep jumping.


So you don't know for a fact that I was responsible, you just throw words like that and let people believe it's a fact. They weren't shutdown without notice. Dustin was notified like I was notified that we're under investigation. As for Dimitri, I'm not sure how and when he was shutdown, but I know that Bloomberg was not happy with his emails and Videos saying that Bloomberg is expensive and that he beats Bloomberg performance and at the same time he's using them.

so if you don't know the facts, then shut up and leave this topic to facts. If you do, then my challenge is there, tell Dimitri and Dustin to say that I was responsible.
You are taking his words out of context. He means that he uses multiple newsfeeds and he sometimes gets the news faster than Bloomberg. That was his intent. Which is true very often...
Both Dmitri and Dustin were shut down without warning. I have that straight from them.
Perhaps the are both lying and you are the one that is telling the truth...kind of unlikely.
  • #63
  • Feb 15, 2007 10:10pm Feb 15, 2007 10:10pm
Quoting zarni
You are taking his words out of context. He means that he uses multiple newsfeeds and he sometimes gets the news faster than Bloomberg. That was his intent. Which is true very often...
Both Dmitri and Dustin were shut down without warning. I have that straight from them.
Perhaps the are both lying and you are the one that is telling the truth...kind of unlikely.
you know what.. you have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't take words out of context. Bloomberg shut him down, not me. They reviewed the evidence, movies, emails and everything he has said and sent it to their lawyers.

I would like to believe that I have the power to do such things but I don't.

And there you go again; I'm offering one person, maybe Burger King to call my rep. (after I give her permission) and ask if I was investigated as well.

but why don't you keep hinting that I'm lying... it gives you a lot of credibility.

Facts are the only things that matter. and you don't have any. Rumors is what you have.

Here is something I know and you don't; Dustin's lawyers did send out letters threatening the persons responsible for taking him down but I never got one. I wonder why.

and to answer your question; the reason why I wasn't taken down is because coming from a software background, I read agreements before I use a software and someone's data in my own application. That's called due diligence and it comes with experience. some people are more worried about making money that they don't care about lying and stealing Bloomberg data for their benefit.
  • #64
  • Feb 15, 2007 10:13pm Feb 15, 2007 10:13pm
Quoting ForexMuse
you know what.. you have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't take words out of context. Bloomberg shut him down, not me. They reviewed the evidence, movies, emails and everything he has said and sent it to their lawyers.

I would like to believe that I have the power to do such things but I don't.

And there you go again; I'm offering one person, maybe Burger King to call my rep. (after I give her permission) and ask if I was investigated as well.

but why don't you keep hinting that I'm lying... it gives you a lot of credibility.

Facts are the only things that matter. and you don't have any. Rumors is what you have.

Here is something I know and you don't; Dustin's lawyers did send out letters threatening the persons responsible for taking him down but I never got one. I wonder why.

and to answer your question; the reason why I wasn't taken down is because coming from a software background, I read agreements before I use a software and someone's data in my own application. That's called due diligence and it comes with experience.
Facts are: you were up. Felix/Dustin were down with no warning.
That is called circumstantial evidence.
Enough said.
  • #65
  • Feb 15, 2007 10:15pm Feb 15, 2007 10:15pm
Hey guys i dont mean to come in between this argument, but would say that anyone who has been in news trading for a long time knows the truth.

Just my 2 cents.
Wish both of you success in forex
d3
  • #66
  • Edited Feb 16, 2007 11:09am Feb 15, 2007 10:19pm | Edited Feb 16, 2007 11:09am
Quoting zarni
Facts are: you were up. Felix/Dustin were down with no warning.
That is called circumstantial evidence.
Enough said.
Not up to the challenge. afraid that people would find out that you're full of it?

You're right. Enough said.

(Addition) Come to think of it. by your logic, anytime IBM does bad in the market, it must because of Microsoft and everytime Microsoft gets sued, it must be IBM. I hope you have better logic when you trade Forex.

Don't tell me.. you're one of those guys who when you lose in Forex. you call it a broker play. Why? because you want to blame someone else instead of taking responsibility for your actions.

Dimitri and Dustin broke their Bloomberg agreement and they are responsible for this. Not me, not anyone else. Time for the likes of you to grow up and take responsiblity for your actions.
  • #67
  • Feb 15, 2007 10:20pm Feb 15, 2007 10:20pm
Quoting d3m0nz3y3
Hey guys i dont mean to come in between this argument, but would say that anyone who has been in news trading for a long time knows the truth.

Just my 2 cents.
Wish both of you success in forex
d3
You're right. And I wish you the best as well.
  • #68
  • Feb 16, 2007 4:12am Feb 16, 2007 4:12am
Quoting ForexMuse
StockKJay, that's the rumor but not entirely accurate. The person who shut them down actually sent all of us emails that he's doing it. His problem was how Dimitri and Dustin (mostly Dustin) are mass marketing the news trading and the rumor is he had evidence that neither of them are really trading news anymore and so they depend on their service fees to make money. Don't know what the evidence is, so don't ask me. And I don't know if it's true.

So what ticked him off is that they keep mass marketing and making it impossible for him to trade news because everytime he has an edge, they give it away. In his words, "these actions have affected my family's income", whether that's true or not, I cannot know but that's his reasoning. Sadly, he's right; I see people having harder and harder time trading news;

Anyone who can do simple math would see that we would all be doing much better, if less people are made aware of news trading and news trading strategies.

The best thing that could happen to all of us is if people believe that news trading is dead. Maybe things can go back to normal or close to normal.
I agree - but one thing puzzles me - some one please enlighten me. Between yourself, Dustin and Felix, say you had a couple of hundred subscribers each (many of which are probably newbies who have no other strategy so are probably not trading huge lots), in the trillion dollar market that forex is, it's a drop in the ocean..... how are these autoclick services causing so much hassle? There must still be thousands of traders out there who are taking the wrong side of the trade for whatever reason.
  • #69
  • Feb 16, 2007 5:26am Feb 16, 2007 5:26am
Quoting forexprincess
I agree - but one thing puzzles me - some one please enlighten me. Between yourself, Dustin and Felix, say you had a couple of hundred subscribers each (many of which are probably newbies who have no other strategy so are probably not trading huge lots), in the trillion dollar market that forex is, it's a drop in the ocean..... how are these autoclick services causing so much hassle? There must still be thousands of traders out there who are taking the wrong side of the trade for whatever reason.
take a look at a currenex platform during CPI or NFP for instance. You will see that you don't have trillions available at the exact moment of the release (sometimes it's even not quoted at all during 2 or 3 seconds) and if a retail broker give you a garantee to be filled that means that he loses money.
  • #70
  • Feb 16, 2007 5:28am Feb 16, 2007 5:28am
Quoting OwenT
take a look at a currenex platform during CPI or NFP for instance. You will see that you don't have trillions available at the exact moment of the release (sometimes it's even not quoted at all during 2 or 3 seconds) and if a retail broker give you a garantee to be filled that means that he loses money.
Ah, OK So the question remains - what is the future of the autoclick, if they keep growing, something's gotta give.
  • #71
  • Feb 16, 2007 5:34am Feb 16, 2007 5:34am
Quoting forexprincess
Ah, OK So the question remains - what is the future of the autoclick, if they keep growing, something's gotta give.
In my opinion, it won't be long before News trading is for the elite. To cover the currenex example before, it's possible the same users with the same broker but who trades half a yard or a yard won't get rejected.

One of my brokers is not good for news trading. but a friend of mine who trades with them a yard gets in and out without any issues. So now, he trades for me on that broker. He's the elite, I'm not.

Sadly, it was once thought that if you had 250k USD that would put you in the elite, I think that has changed this last year.
  • #72
  • Feb 16, 2007 5:59am Feb 16, 2007 5:59am
These "autoclick" services are laughable. The only way they work is by exploiting the delayed price feeds of retail bucketshops. As soon as these bucketshops realise what you're doing they'll put you on manual execution or close your account. Interbank market makers don't fill anyone after big news releases. They adjust their prices and then start filling people. There's no way of "beating the spike" on the Interbank market. Be realistic - the banks who provide liquidity like UBS and Deutsche Bank are both market makers and traders. You think Deutsche Bank would fill you faster than they would fill their own traders?
  • #73
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:14am Feb 16, 2007 6:14am
Quoting notouch
These "autoclick" services are laughable. The only way they work is by exploiting the delayed price feeds of retail bucketshops. As soon as these bucketshops realise what you're doing they'll put you on manual execution or close your account. Interbank market makers don't fill anyone after big news releases. They adjust their prices and then start filling people. There's no way of "beating the spike" on the Interbank market. Be realistic - the banks who provide liquidity like UBS and Deutsche Bank are both market makers and traders. You think Deutsche Bank would fill you faster than they would fill their own traders?
This may surprise but the big boys don't trade the news, they play with bid and ask. Recently I've been approached by a bank consultant because a major bank wants to trade news but through his discussion with the bank, he was told that it would have to be a guaranteed move of over 50 to 100 pips releases. Which limits them to 3 releases at most.

he told me that banks don't take these risks of spike trading. what they can do is limit liquidity and increasing the spread.

This is my opinion of course based on what he told me. It maybe wrong.
  • #74
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:20am Feb 16, 2007 6:20am
I agree. That's exactly what I'm saying. The "spike" is the banks adjusting the bid/ask. There's no way of "beating" the banks. Of course you can beat a retail bucketshop who has delayed price feeds but the bucketshops are there to make money, not give it away, so any success you have with that is not going to last long.
  • #75
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:30am Feb 16, 2007 6:30am
Quoting notouch
I agree. That's exactly what I'm saying. The "spike" is the banks adjusting the bid/ask. There's no way of "beating" the banks. Of course you can beat a retail bucketshop who has delayed price feeds but the bucketshops are there to make money, not give it away, so any success you have with that is not going to last long.
the good thing is most banks are not there yet. that's why we're still able to trade. but consider this.. once all banks widden the spread, a missed non-farm would still move the price by 50 pips so, it's back to normal. Liquidity is all they can do to stop but that hurts them as well, some have to unload millions and billions anyway because of their customers so they have no choice.

I don't think it can go away but just limited to the few. What you need is to find an elite when it's done.
  • #76
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:44am Feb 16, 2007 6:44am
Do you understand the way the Interbank market works? Do you understand the difference between a retail market maker (bucketshop) and an Interbank market maker?

On the Interbank market the banks set the bid/ask and they decide whether to fill you or not. Do you really think a bank would fill your order a few milliseconds before moving the bid/ask 50 pips? Of course not. They're not there to give money away.

What you're doing my friend is not trading, it's exploiting the delayed price feeds of the bucketshops. The bucketshops have nothing to do with the Interbank market.
  • #77
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:56am Feb 16, 2007 6:56am
Quoting ForexMuse
the good thing is most banks are not there yet. that's why we're still able to trade. but consider this.. once all banks widden the spread, a missed non-farm would still move the price by 50 pips so, it's back to normal. Liquidity is all they can do to stop but that hurts them as well, some have to unload millions and billions anyway because of their customers so they have no choice.

I don't think it can go away but just limited to the few. What you need is to find an elite when it's done.
Absolutely. The reality is that economic data moves markets. Rather or not Banks supplying liquidity instantly or after a delay, the market will adjust.

So many people come off that data traders are bad or wrong. This is just nonsense in all of its forms. Traders speculate based on their perceived direction of the market and econimic data is the primary influence on speculation - end of story. The person who gets to market with the information first will always make the most and that is never ever going to change.

The fact is, the only reason there is any controversey around this discusion at all is that there is no central market. Because for the most part banks make the market much like your retail makes your market, they can get caught "holding the bag" during a data realease. As a market maker, that is part of the gig.

As long as the bank or liquidity provider is big enough in relation to the amount of short term traders profiting from these data trades it is acceptable to them. The problem is when the balance is upset.

Forex Muse is absolutely correct. The rub here is that the data release contingency has become too large. Some of these service providers are taking on too many subscribers and upsetting the delicate balance for liquidity providers. The bottom line is that the signal providers do need to limit their subscriptions and we all need to shut up on the topic. While there is no stopping technology or progress, we dont need to to worsen the situation. If the increase in participation happens very gradually, it will not shock the market so badly and we will not face such heavy countermeasures.

I wonder if anyone would be interested in setting up a private group for this topic.

FXO
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #78
  • Feb 16, 2007 6:58am Feb 16, 2007 6:58am
Quoting notouch
Do you understand the way the Interbank market works? Do you understand the difference between a retail market maker (bucketshop) and an Interbank market maker?

On the Interbank market the banks set the bid/ask and they decide whether to fill you or not. Do you really think a bank would fill your order a few milliseconds before moving the bid/ask 50 pips? Of course not. They're not there to give money away.

What you're doing my friend is not trading, it's exploiting the delayed price feeds of the bucketshops. The bucketshops have nothing to do with the Interbank market.
I do understand it very well, I know the internal working of a broker and what ticks them off and that's why I can still trade news.

I'm not on a retail broker.. all my broker are direct feeds to banks and I get filled. Do you think that someone as visible as me can trade on a retail broker without my account being shutdown. Even before I had the Muse public, I was shutdown by 2 retail brokers one within 4 weeks and one within 3 weeks for tripling my accounts. I learned to spread my wings and be upfront with brokers and make the right deals with the right people.

Also, I don't like the word exploiting, you say that as if we're doing anything wrong. Retail brokers exploit people by getting paid for spread and most trade which are 90% losers. I like to think of it as getting them back for stop hunting, widening spread and marketing forex to everyone as if it's the easiest thing to do. We're not evil, we're providing for our families by putting in an educated position at news time.

So you should know before you make an assumption, I tech trade from 2 am to 11 am every day between my news trades. Everyone knows that including the Muse members. I want it all, not just the news trades.
  • #79
  • Feb 16, 2007 7:28am Feb 16, 2007 7:28am
If you can find a way of making money from bucketshops or banks I'm all for it. "Autoclicking" is not going to make you money in the long term. I made my own "autoclick" sytem. Easy isn't it? Just subscribe to Reuters Trader, have the data imported into Excel and then write a macro using Windows API calls to click on your broker's buy or sell button based on whether the data deviates from expectations. This gets you filled with the bucketshops, until they realise what you're doing and bring an end to it. The banks on the other hand just won't accept your order - or they'll slip you. It's up to them whether or not to accept your order. Why on earth would they accept an order that would make them an immediate loss?
  • #80
  • Feb 16, 2007 7:40am Feb 16, 2007 7:40am
Quoting notouch
If you can find a way of making money from bucketshops or banks I'm all for it. "Autoclicking" is not going to make you money in the long term. I made my own "autoclick" sytem. Easy isn't it? Just subscribe to Reuters Trader, have the data imported into Excel and then write a macro using Windows API calls to click on your broker's buy or sell button based on whether the data deviates from expectations. This gets you filled with the bucketshops, until they realise what you're doing and bring an end to it. The banks on the other hand just won't accept your order - or they'll slip you. It's up to them whether or not to accept your order. Why on earth would they accept an order that would make them an immediate loss?
with all due respect, I don't think you understand all aspects of banking; Banks don't exactly have a choice, they have customers that say buy for me at so and so, sell for me at so and so. Close my position at so and so.

That's our liquidity and whatever else they want to get rid of; They don't look at the next 50 pips, they look at the next year; While the Euro maybe dropping 50 pips now, they are looking at 3 months from now, a year from now. It can drop 100 pips, they don't care, they're planning on loading up the euro because of their long term plans.

Whether you're right or wrong; I'm right or wrong, as long as someone is filling me, I'll take it. At least I'm in the game.
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