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EMA 25-50 Trading System (Detailed)

  • #2,081
  • Aug 6, 2008 9:06pm Aug 6, 2008 9:06pm
in this new version everything is the same but the sl thing? i mean stochastic is still the same?
  • #2,082
  • Aug 6, 2008 9:08pm Aug 6, 2008 9:08pm
Yes.

Still going to think it over after a good night sleep, to consider the options and solutions.
  • #2,083
  • Aug 6, 2008 11:15pm Aug 6, 2008 11:15pm
Guys,

It's late around here, but I've been coding the bugs in the pip counter (remember it?) and I think I got it counting right.

Just one question about the win/lost ratio (not that it matters that much), would you prefer it to:

1) count each arrow as a trade, or;
2) count each TP as a trade, being a yellow cross considered as 1 or 2 trades also (depending if it comes after TP3 or TP2, respectively). Cross after TP1 doesn't produce win neither loss (ain't counted), and black cross is considered 4 losses.

For now it's already coded the second way (more complicated one), but I can reverse it.
The reason for applying that logic is that we consider one entry signal as being 4 parts/lots. for example reaching TP3:
- 1st lot is sold at ATR;
- 2nd lot at 2*ATR;
- 3rd lot at 3*ATR;
- 4th lot at 2*ATR.
  • #2,084
  • Aug 7, 2008 2:22am Aug 7, 2008 2:22am
Hello!

Take time not come into this thread!, I see that the system to evolve!

If someone is kind enough to put a chart to view the evolution and the rules ....

Thank you very much.
  • #2,085
  • Aug 7, 2008 3:58am Aug 7, 2008 3:58am
Quoting tonirai
Guys,

It's late around here, but I've been coding the bugs in the pip counter (remember it?) and I think I got it counting right.

Just one question about the win/lost ratio (not that it matters that much), would you prefer it to:

1) count each arrow as a trade, or;
2) count each TP as a trade, being a yellow cross considered as 1 or 2 trades also (depending if it comes after TP3 or TP2, respectively). Cross after TP1 doesn't produce win neither loss (ain't counted), and black cross is considered 4 losses.

For now it's already coded the second way (more complicated one), but I can reverse it.
The reason for applying that logic is that we consider one entry signal as being 4 parts/lots. for example reaching TP3:
- 1st lot is sold at ATR;
- 2nd lot at 2*ATR;
- 3rd lot at 3*ATR;
- 4th lot at 2*ATR.
nonono we would have a completly wrong win/loss ratio. the trade is the arrow not the tps, in my opinion. just leave it that if it gets at least tp1 it's a win, else it's a loss.

I still don't surrender to the 4orders thing, imho it's possible to handle the TPs with simple limit orders
  • #2,086
  • Aug 7, 2008 4:20am Aug 7, 2008 4:20am
Tonirai,

You were right about the straddling of the candle across the MA, it knocked out far too many trades. I see you have said in another post that you are sorting the pip counter, are you going to make a modified version available when you have done it.
One more question. There are a number of versions out and it is getting confusing. Do we have a version that allows us to not use the ATR for the SL. I am basically chasing the ability to be able to alter RSI levels, include or exclude stoch and macd and be able to manually choose PT and SL.
I am essentially using the system that was initially started on this thread and getting good results. I will start to post charts of my trades shortly if I keep getting this success. Up 678 pips this week.

Regards.
  • #2,087
  • Edited 5:29am Aug 7, 2008 4:22am | Edited 5:29am
Quoting tonirai
Only way would be to use i+4 but I'm scheptical about that... It won't have repainting issues, but I think that in live mode the previous gives better signals.
I don't know.. we have to test but if we give i+4 at the first hour is largely suboptimal since we have the i+1 data that are already locked...

I don't know, we really have to avoid this repaint issue... it's a nightmare with pip counting

are you sure can't do anything to make the +1,+2,+3,+4 system? because this would be a repaintless chart forever and it would also be a flawless tech for the first 2 hours. some problems with the other 2 really but will handle something
  • #2,088
  • Aug 7, 2008 5:43am Aug 7, 2008 5:43am
other problem, sorry: are you sure the MACD check triggers at the CLOSE of the "previous" hour? because it shows some repainting too this morning...
  • #2,089
  • Aug 7, 2008 6:00am Aug 7, 2008 6:00am
Quoting Corre
nonono we would have a completly wrong win/loss ratio. the trade is the arrow not the tps, in my opinion. just leave it that if it gets at least tp1 it's a win, else it's a loss.
Yes, but my logic was to make it comparable with real trading, telling us how many winning/loosing operations (orders) have been put in the market (sum of that = total orders)... except for break-even trades, which I didn't know how to consider them (for now it doesn't count).

Quoting Corre
I still don't surrender to the 4orders thing, imho it's possible to handle the TPs with simple limit orders
Well... coding more TPs dependes on available buffers (which we only have one left).

But what I think I can try is to code independent multiplier for the various TP, as external inputs (something like in the EA);
Another doubt/possibility I have is to make it look at ATR at the moment of exiting, instead of when entering (that's how it is, now).
  • #2,090
  • Aug 7, 2008 6:15am Aug 7, 2008 6:15am
Quoting aajduk
You were right about the straddling of the candle across the MA, it knocked out far too many trades. I see you have said in another post that you are sorting the pip counter, are you going to make a modified version available when you have done it.
The modified version is done... I'm only making sure if I have to make other changes, before releasing it (so that I don't release one version every 5 minutes )

Quoting aajduk
One more question. There are a number of versions out and it is getting confusing. Do we have a version that allows us to not use the ATR for the SL. I am basically chasing the ability to be able to alter RSI levels, include or exclude stoch and macd and be able to manually choose PT and SL.
Yes. The version called "configurable" is the one you want. The last edit on it was done yesterday, in order to show a loss in those past trades in which TP candle reaches both TP and SL value (because we don't know which came first). Before, it was counting it as a win.
It doesn't change live performance, only past counting, that turns more pessimistic.

Quoting aajduk
I am essentially using the system that was initially started on this thread and getting good results. I will start to post charts of my trades shortly if I keep getting this success. Up 678 pips this week.
Yes, you do that
The truth is, between my job and improving/debugging the Indicator, I have no time left to demo trade it...
So for now I leave that for you guys, but would like to hear/see the results
  • #2,091
  • Aug 7, 2008 6:23am Aug 7, 2008 6:23am
Quoting Corre
are you sure can't do anything to make the +1,+2,+3,+4 system? because this would be a repaintless chart forever and it would also be a flawless tech for the first 2 hours. some problems with the other 2 really but will handle something
For what I know... yes I'm sure
But if someone with more knowledge knows a way... come and share it!

Whatever we choose, i+1, i+2, i+4... it has to apply to all candles.
  • #2,092
  • Aug 7, 2008 6:32am Aug 7, 2008 6:32am
Quoting Corre
other problem, sorry: are you sure the MACD check triggers at the CLOSE of the "previous" hour? because it shows some repainting too this morning...
Sure and certain.
MACD inputs checks the previous candle's close.

Where did you see repainting? At the indicator's signal? Or at the MACD display?

Because I read somewhere that it's possible sometimes in one indicator that its image doesn't show a crossing/level, while according to its value, it should... and that's due to graphical calculations/displaying limitations.
Anyway when using an indicator as an input to other, what counts is its values, not its graphical image.
  • #2,093
  • Aug 7, 2008 6:37am Aug 7, 2008 6:37am
Quoting tonirai
Yes, but my logic was to make it comparable with real trading, telling us how many winning/loosing operations (orders) have been put in the market (sum of that = total orders)... except for break-even trades, which I didn't know how to consider them (for now it doesn't count).


Well... coding more TPs dependes on available buffers (which we only have one left).

But what I think I can try is to code independent multiplier for the various TP, as external inputs (something like in the EA);
Another doubt/possibility I have is to make it look at ATR at the moment of exiting, instead of when entering (that's how it is, now).
Since I have some things to do which include going out, I'll be waiting for some answer to this, before advancing any further.
  • #2,094
  • Aug 7, 2008 7:24am Aug 7, 2008 7:24am
Quoting tonirai
Sure and certain.
MACD inputs checks the previous candle's close.

Where did you see repainting? At the indicator's signal? Or at the MACD display?

Because I read somewhere that it's possible sometimes in one indicator that its image doesn't show a crossing/level, while according to its value, it should... and that's due to graphical calculations/displaying limitations.
Anyway when using an indicator as an input to other, what counts is its values, not its graphical image.
at 11.00 there was a long segnal that in 10 minutes disappeared and returned at 12.00 opening.

there's something I don't understand here...
Stoch was always long
RSI green from a lot
price above ema 24 by a lot.

the only thing was the macd chopping around 0...

anyway the check has to be at the close (so it CAN'T move) this is what shocks me... how can it repaint if the check is only at the close...
  • #2,095
  • Aug 7, 2008 7:42am Aug 7, 2008 7:42am
today i'm getting out of my head.

1) the long (the repainted one) of 12.00 went to TP1
2) price breaks and fall deep.
3) price reaches BE nothing happens
4) price reaches SL and it triggers deleting the TP1
all of this has been followed by my own eyes in live mode

...i'm speechless... and horrified today *_*
  • #2,096
  • Aug 7, 2008 8:17am Aug 7, 2008 8:17am
last post for today, because I have to exit:

a good idea for the Stoch may be to use the OPENING of the "new" 4h I explain

for the first hour use the close of the last h4, as it is now, ok.
for the second hour use the open price of the stoch h4 and it should be as it is now, just i+1
for the third and the fourth use i+2 and i+3

this is because opening is nearer to all these relevations and overall opening with the close is the only valor that doesn't repaint.

what about using the opening?

and please check what happened before with the TP1/BE/SL thing... I understand it is due to the last modify you did but it should have also shown the mid sl to brek even point, and it hasn't.
  • #2,097
  • Aug 7, 2008 8:19am Aug 7, 2008 8:19am
Quoting Corre
today i'm getting out of my head.

1) the long (the repainted one) of 12.00 went to TP1
2) price breaks and fall deep.
3) price reaches BE nothing happens
4) price reaches SL and it triggers deleting the TP1
all of this has been followed by my own eyes in live mode

...i'm speechless... and horrified today *_*

Corre, the problem is that you don't undestand the limitations of coding.

This last one, I saw it coming too (saw the TP1, when Trichet was starting to speak - then later, the candle reversed, and it turned into a loss).

Follow me on this:
The entry signals are shown on the openning of a new candle, so those can't repaint if they rely on last candle's data and/or in current candle openning - meaning an arrow can't repaint;
The SL and TP rely on high/low/close of current candle, so while current candle isn't closed, the Indicator is always calculating for each new tick arrived.

So sometimes TP and SL will be replaced, there's no way to avoid that... but that's why we try to code it with a pessimistic view - that candle shows a loss, but if you were trading the Indicator live, you would have made a win.
  • #2,098
  • Aug 7, 2008 8:27am Aug 7, 2008 8:27am
Quoting Corre
a good idea for the Stoch may be to use the OPENING of the "new" 4h I explain

Stochastic only has close or high/low, not open option.

Quoting Corre
for the first hour use the close of the last h4, as it is now, ok.
for the second hour use the open price of the stoch h4 and it should be as it is now, just i+1
for the third and the fourth use i+2 and i+3
I told you before you have to use always the same, you can't choose if it's for the first hour, or the second hour, or third...

Quoting Corre
and please check what happened before with the TP1/BE/SL thing... I understand it is due to the last modify you did but it should have also shown the mid sl to brek even point, and it hasn't.

It isn't due to the last modification... see previous post.
The only thing the last modification does concerns past data - it considers a loss when the candle reaches both SL & TP values.
  • #2,099
  • Aug 7, 2008 8:29am Aug 7, 2008 8:29am
yes, i understand that and it's ok to be pessimistic.

what i'm saying is that is didn't close the trade when it reached BE i know it would have turned into a "black" sl anyway, but the indicator should have shown a golden cross before the black one

and it didn't.
  • #2,100
  • Aug 7, 2008 8:54am Aug 7, 2008 8:54am
Quoting Corre
what i'm saying is that is didn't close the trade when it reached BE i know it would have turned into a "black" sl anyway, but the indicator should have shown a golden cross before the black one

and it didn't.
It can only show golden arrow starting in the next candle (as it is coded right now).
Will look into it to see if it is doable to show in current candle... for now I'm not sure.
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