Am I wasting my time with demo? | Forex Factory

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Am I wasting my time with demo?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 29, 2008 1:11am Jul 29, 2008 1:11am
I joined FF in Feburay of 06, but I actually started trading 3 months earlier. Its been about 2 years and 9 months since I have been trading. I blew various demo accounts, but only 2 live accounts. The 2 live accounts were small, and not capitalized at all so it didnt take much to blow. The last account I blew was in Nov of 2006.

I havent traded a live account in such a long time, I cant even remember what it feels like. So on a demo, I just go through the trades wthout thinking if I would even consider taking them live.

Ive read and learned but I still have a long way to go. Traders always say, never risk money you cant afford to lose, and dont be undercapitalised. But what if you have to risk money that you really dont want to lose, even tho you are struggling, there is no other way. And of course you are going to start undercapitalised if your having trouble just coughing up the money.

I am so sick of demo right now. Sometimes I will do really good, other times I will bomb and just give up and make a new account.

Should I just put a small deposite in an account to start trading? Possibly with Oanda, so I can adjust position size to my capital needs. I think sometimes its necessary to trade on real account just to get you motivated and start learning to manage real money. I feel like I've hit my limit with demo a while ago; I want to test what I learned in the past 3 years with a live account.

Or am I wrong and I should be consistent in a demo account for at least 3-6 months before I go live? I mean, if you cant produce results in a demo, what chance do you have of even trying it with your hard earned money?
  • #2
  • Edited 1:36am Jul 29, 2008 1:22am | Edited 1:36am
Quoting Xenaga03
I joined FF in Feburay of 06, but I actually started trading 3 months earlier. Its been about 2 years and 9 months since I have been trading. I blew various demo accounts, but only 2 live accounts. The 2 live accounts were small, and not capitalized at all so it didnt take much to blow. The last account I blew was in Nov of 2006.

I havent traded a live account in such a long time, I cant even remember what it feels like. So on a demo, I just go through the trades wthout thinking if I would even consider taking them live.

Ive read and learned but I still have a long way to go. Traders always say, never risk money you cant afford to lose, and dont be undercapitalised. But what if you have to risk money that you really dont want to lose, even tho you are struggling, there is no other way. And of course you are going to start undercapitalised if your having trouble just coughing up the money.

I am so sick of demo right now. Sometimes I will do really good, other times I will bomb and just give up and make a new account.

Should I just put a small deposite in an account to start trading? Possibly with Oanda, so I can adjust position size to my capital needs. I think sometimes its necessary to trade on real account just to get you motivated and start learning to manage real money. I feel like I've hit my limit with demo a while ago; I want to test what I learned in the past 3 years with a live account.

Or am I wrong and I should be consistent in a demo account for at least 3-6 months before I go live? I mean, if you cant produce results in a demo, what chance do you have of even trying it with your hard earned money?
you have spend too much time on DEMO. ok atlest you did not blow Big live account's and protected working capital.
i think now your understanding of market is good. but Trading experiance on real account is different...at this stange if you have good trading system then no harm starting Live. and stop DEMO. since now at this stage it is waste of time.
what is important on live account pos is perfect entry point's. where you get minimum draw down.
Just start with Live and don't go big... if you know perfect entry point......you don't need big account size.

if you search some post of mine ....i posted some sample chart...there is hidden gold in those chart. where you know where to take perfect pos.
  • #3
  • Jul 29, 2008 1:56am Jul 29, 2008 1:56am
If your not doing well in demo and live account, don't go to live account. Demo trading is like Drivers Ed.. if your not succeeding, you should not move up.

Your system is apparently not working. You need to consider looking for one that agrees with you more. I strongly suggest you find someone that can mentor you. There are a few good groups that you can join here. Look for these groups on this site.

Don't give up hope...this is a sign to try something totally different.

Good Luck
"To Be A Successful Forex Trader, You Need A Successful Forex Mentor."
  • #4
  • Jul 29, 2008 2:08am Jul 29, 2008 2:08am
Quoting CTGUY
If your not doing well in demo and live account, don't go to live account. Demo trading is like Drivers Ed.. if your not succeeding, you should not move up.

Your system is apparently not working. You need to consider looking for one that agrees with you more. I strongly suggest you find someone that can mentor you. There are a few good groups that you can join here. Look for these groups on this site.

Don't give up hope...this is a sign to try something totally different.

Good Luck
This is what I am not sure about. If you put money in a real account, does your brain all of a sudden get more "serious"? Pretty often, I dont even care about my trade outcomes, because what is the point of demo trading?

Is demo trading just to help you learn allot of experiences and pass that beginners phase or is it to test systems until you think your system is just "perfect" to go live with? At this rate, I dont think I'll be able to go live until a couple of more years. With the reward of money in the real account, and pain linked to losses, do you learn/trade more better and carefully?
  • #5
  • Jul 29, 2008 2:11am Jul 29, 2008 2:11am
Quoting ramdas
you have spend too much time on DEMO. ok atlest you did not blow Big live account's and protected working capital.
i think now your understanding of market is good. but Trading experiance on real account is different...at this stange if you have good trading system then no harm starting Live. and stop DEMO. since now at this stage it is waste of time.
what is important on live account pos is perfect entry point's. where you get minimum draw down.
Just start with Live and don't go big... if you know perfect entry point......you don't need big account size.

if you search some post of mine ....i posted some sample chart...there is hidden gold in those chart. where you know where to take perfect pos.
I am also leaning more towards opening another live account. A little bigger then my previous two, but something tangible for me to trade unlike demo.

I also agree with you on entry points. If your entry is good and it hardly goes against you, you can profit without needing a bigger account. But that only happens in about half of my trades, so I end up focusing more on managing it and looking for good R:R trades.
  • #6
  • Jul 29, 2008 2:15am Jul 29, 2008 2:15am
Demo trading give one the ability to test and find tune their trading system, if they have one. Demo trading also allows one to practice how to make trades. One should become proficient with the platform and develop a speed that allows them to enter a trade and grab that extra one to two extra pips that they would not be getting if they fumbled through the process. The most difficult thing to understand in the demo is the Take Profit and Stop Loss. One should stay in a demo account until you know how to maneuver these tricky steps.
"To Be A Successful Forex Trader, You Need A Successful Forex Mentor."
  • #7
  • Jul 29, 2008 2:32am Jul 29, 2008 2:32am
You will not learn anything on DEMO money.
You will never experience the fear of losing money nor the ecstacy of making money.

This is why DEMO traders fail to understand Money Management.

What are you? A baby? You will never learn to swim in a wading pool. Get into a deeper pool!
  • #8
  • Jul 29, 2008 2:56am Jul 29, 2008 2:56am
Quoting ragnakore
You will not learn anything on DEMO money.
You will never experience the fear of losing money nor the ecstacy of making money.

This is why DEMO traders fail to understand Money Management.

What are you? A baby? You will never learn to swim in a wading pool. Get into a deeper pool!
yap
know thy edge and abide by it ! 4 in it shall thou be successful !
  • #9
  • Edited 4:56am Jul 29, 2008 3:15am | Edited 4:56am
Hum.... you could consider following the advice of the last two... but then again, you may want the desire to succeed in the forex instead.

I still say that the best way to succeed is to find a mentor... do exactly what they do and you will without doubt, become a better trader.

Good Luck with your success my friend
"To Be A Successful Forex Trader, You Need A Successful Forex Mentor."
  • #10
  • Jul 29, 2008 5:03am Jul 29, 2008 5:03am
Until you have a consistently profitable strategy, why waste money trying to develop one? Once you have such a strategy, then you can worry about the discipline aspects... greed and fear... being introduced into the equation via a small live account. Otherwise, it's just gambling.

If you're having discipline problems when working a demo account, what you can try to do is think that each time you take a trade, your future career as a trader depends on it. Try setting targets to achieve eg increase your account size by 10% in a month to prove you can do it (I personally do not advocate targets as this forces you to trade when the set up isn't necessarily good in order to make the target but it may work for you). When your future is on the line, you may take demo accounts much more seriously.
The market reveals who we really are...
  • #11
  • Jul 29, 2008 5:26am Jul 29, 2008 5:26am
Go live but trade with PROPER MONEY MANAGEMENT!
Trade what you see, not what you think.
  • #12
  • Jul 29, 2008 6:00am Jul 29, 2008 6:00am
I'm fairly new to the journey but wanted to offer my experience.

Demo is useful if you have the mindset that allows you to treat it like real live money. That's why demo is very useful to me. I don't just pull the trigger blindly. You mentioned that you take demo without considering if you'd take the trade live or not. With this mindset I don't think demo would be useful, in fact it might even reinforce bad habits.

You could try a micro account and play with pennies, anything that gives you more of a sense of what a loss means. A loss affects me on demo, a string of losses even more (but that's another story and more about psychology of trading systems with an edge). If you can't get that sense then you need to change the system.

I've been spending a lot of time in education; looking at the traders I respect, reading their post histories, learning through the concepts. I think initially it has helped me to devote my time to 80% education 20% demo. The learning curve never ends.

I also suggest that if your demo system isn't proving profitable, then move up to trading the daily charts. Have a strong system that gives you a clear trading plan and don't deviate from it. Don't take trades on hunches, or on fear of missing out on moves. Find successful traders and rather than rely on their predictions, see the logic behind why they are doing it. Usually they have a thread in their post history that explains their trading strategy. Sometimes they are unwilling to answer questions in threads or elaborate on their trading strategy because they've explained it so many times before. Find their posting history.

I suggest reading all of Auslanco's posts. He doesn't post here anymore but the strategy threads (not so much the very long newstrade thread, although there are nuggets in the first few pages) is full of good clear advice regarding the systems. Then follow karmo's current postings and read his post history for the best GBP/JPY analysis. Try to work out why he says what he does. Read the James16 chart thread for a good grounding in price action.

Take the auslanco system back to demo and focus on applying it rigorously. If you get a loser ask yourself if it was within the rules of the system or not. If not then why did you take the trade.

This approach coupled with a very strong money management approach (try the %R model) will reap dividends. Money management is so crucial that it has been noted that if you operate correct MM you could toss a coin at the start of the london session and bet on direction and you'd still make money inthe long term. Even in my limited experience I know that it keeps you alive.

It's a business not a casino. You've been doing it so long and have shown probably the most important characteristic of any trader that I see succeeding. You haven't given up! Which implies that you have patience persistence and dedication. I have no doubt that with a few tweaks that vast experience will work for you.

Good luck!
  • #13
  • Aug 2, 2008 4:30am Aug 2, 2008 4:30am
Thanks for all the feedback. After thinking some time, I think it would be best to open a small account with oanda and trade minis. Wish me luck!
  • #14
  • Last Post: Aug 2, 2008 6:31am Aug 2, 2008 6:31am
I'll answer to the thread's main question: Yes. You are wasting your time. Trading a real account you learn 1000 times faster. And, you're not getting any younger in the mean time, life's short - go for it. Doesn't mean you have to put a lot of money on the line at first either, try with some amount that you still care about but far from your last savings and see if you get a stable rise over several months.
On the path to Enrichment.
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