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EMA 25-50 Trading System (Detailed)

  • #1,881
  • Jul 16, 2008 2:16pm Jul 16, 2008 2:16pm
Quoting tonirai
Correction:
It's a short trade, so what I meant above was:

But ATR was 33, so 1,9989 - 33 pips = 1,9956, which doesn’t match with close, neither low of the candle…

The low at the moment was 1,9969...

So I think once the entry signal is given (even at the middle of a candle, like in this case), it's calculating TP1 taking in account the open of the candle - we have to make it count from the entry signal.
Without that, we never get the right distance between entry and TP when we get live signals.

But even fixed for that, it will still be impossible to count correctly the pips when backtesting...

ideas ?
tonirai, I think i came up with something realistic... please have a look and let me know...
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 EMA_25_IndicatorMY.mq4   29 KB | 421 downloads
  • #1,882
  • Jul 16, 2008 4:28pm Jul 16, 2008 4:28pm
Its repainting. Be aware.
Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered
  • #1,883
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:03am Jul 17, 2008 3:03am
Quoting tonirai
Correction:
It's a short trade, so what I meant above was:

But ATR was 33, so 1,9989 - 33 pips = 1,9956, which doesn’t match with close, neither low of the candle…

The low at the moment was 1,9969...

So I think once the entry signal is given (even at the middle of a candle, like in this case), it's calculating TP1 taking in account the open of the candle - we have to make it count from the entry signal.
Without that, we never get the right distance between entry and TP when we get live signals.

But even fixed for that, it will still be impossible to count correctly the pips when backtesting...

ideas ?
Well, when I started with the indicator I knew that the main problem would be that the indicator is running on a snapshot of the bars.
Meaning, the indicator can't be accurate when it doesn't know what came before what...
The only real and true solution is to beuild an EA - this is what i am working on right now.
  • #1,884
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:06am Jul 17, 2008 3:06am
Quoting svlad1983
tonirai, I think i came up with something realistic... please have a look and let me know...
I really haven't got any free time... at least for the next 36 hours (15 to 17h out of home, yesterday and today).
Wait for feedback from Corre or ronmatzkin, or somebody else... I will be watching the coments, if possible

Quoting fireeee
Its repainting. Be aware.
Which one? This last one by svlad? Don't know...
But the last oficial version isn't.


A last word to Farad...
Thank's for the support!
See you all soon.
  • #1,885
  • Jul 17, 2008 3:14am Jul 17, 2008 3:14am
ronmatzkin, didn't noticed your post before sending mine.

Well, we know the logic behind the indicator from top to bottom, and we trust that it works... my comment was only to alert we can't pip count, as it is now.

But you're right, the EA will be the best way to see it performing live, doing backtest.
Keep going, and keep posting the evolution.
  • #1,886
  • Edited 5:27am Jul 17, 2008 5:01am | Edited 5:27am
Goodmorning everyone.

I have a problem now; I need to know if the enter is only at the OPENING of the candle (I forgot to underline this).

To make the system work it has to respect this:

1) The candle has just opened. A new candle I mean

2) When the new candle opens we have 3 checks (for a long enter):
a) The price of the OPENING is above 25Ema
b) The RSI is above 60 in that second
c) Macd "cross" is green
for a short enter exactly the opposite

and when I say MACD Cross I mean this indicator (it is already included in our system anyway):

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...4&d=1213847575

So the enter must be at the opening of the candle and JUST at the opening. This is very important guys, point 1) has to be respected in all our trades.

Does our Ema indicator_25 v1.6 do this?

Anyway this was just the initial idea, if we find that the way it is now, profits are bigger we obviously leave everything as it is now. But we really need to have the endicator show the exact entry point and leave SL_TP from the entry point not the opening.

Come on boys, just the last efforts. The indicator is almost ultimated.
  • #1,887
  • Jul 17, 2008 11:57am Jul 17, 2008 11:57am
Quoting svlad1983
tonirai, I think i came up with something realistic... please have a look and let me know...
svlad, I'm taking a quik look at it now.
It seems better (lookings at the count numbers), but still incorrect:

For EURUSD starting at 16.07.2008, 14:00 we have 2 trades.
First one reached TP3 and second reached TP1;
ATR for the first trade was 28 in the first candle, and 29 in the second candle involved; For the second trade, it was 26;

Your counter shows +108 pips;
But the correct count would be (if the signals came at the open):

First trade: 28 + (28+29) + (28+29+29) + (28+29) = +228;
Second: 26 + 0 + 0 + 0 = +26;
Total: +254 pips.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: pip.gif Size: 33 KB
  • #1,888
  • Jul 17, 2008 12:06pm Jul 17, 2008 12:06pm
Corre,

I think at the moment it isn't (a quik look at the code should clarify it... haven't got the time now).

From what I saw yesterday, I would say:
condition 1. - open of the candle below/above EMA;
condition 2. and 3. - RSI and MACD at close (meaning, when you're live -> at the moment) lined up.

I think it can easily be changed to be all at open... but might show worse (but countable) results.

Wait for ronmatzkin to say something about it.
  • #1,889
  • Jul 17, 2008 2:54pm Jul 17, 2008 2:54pm
Quoting ronmatzkin
Well, when I started with the indicator I knew that the main problem would be that the indicator is running on a snapshot of the bars.
Meaning, the indicator can't be accurate when it doesn't know what came before what...
The only real and true solution is to beuild an EA - this is what i am working on right now.
So the only accurate version is 1.1 because its never taking profit on the same bar as the entry.
Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered
  • #1,890
  • Edited 3:29pm Jul 17, 2008 3:17pm | Edited 3:29pm
Quote
Which one? This last one by svlad? Don't know...
But the last oficial version isn't.
I really don`t want to disappoint you but it is better for you to know the truth . The only way to avoid the repainting is to enter at the close of the bar.And the reason for that is the RSI. You can say if it have crossed 60 or 40 only at the close of the bar.
I wish you best.
Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered
  • #1,891
  • Jul 17, 2008 4:16pm Jul 17, 2008 4:16pm
Quoting fireeee
I really don`t want to disappoint you but it is better for you to know the truth . The only way to avoid the repainting is to enter at the close of the bar.And the reason for that is the RSI. You can say if it have crossed 60 or 40 only at the close of the bar.
I wish you best.
But what do you mean exactly by it's repainting?

For me, an indicator repaints when it changes past indication as time goes by (meaning, past arrows/numbers/crosses would be changing place in the future).
But that's not the case here... that's why I was saying it's not repainting.

If you are reffering to what I said before, about signal coming in the middle of the candle, and TP1 with it, leading to misjudgment of past profit, then your logic is right.
  • #1,892
  • Jul 17, 2008 4:29pm Jul 17, 2008 4:29pm
I mean an arrow appears on the open or in the middle of the candle and if the price goes againts the entry in the period of the same candle the arrow just disappears. Just watch the market for 10 minutes on the 1m chart and you will see what I mean.
Wish you best
Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered
  • #1,893
  • Edited 6:51pm Jul 17, 2008 4:50pm | Edited 6:51pm
Yes fireeee, we are aware of that
In the curent coding conditions, if a signal comes but the price movement goes against it, it disapears (because conditions for the signal aren't all there anymore, and the candle hasn't close yet).

My observation wasn't due to this fact, it was because of TP1 appearing at the same time, as I thought it would count pip from the entry point (instead of from the opening of the candle).

But I still don't call it repainting... at least comparing to what I have seen in other indicators, in which all the past data changes!
Check the COG indicator in the The art of Trading MAs thread... and you'll see what I mean!
  • #1,894
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:03am Jul 18, 2008 3:03am
Quoting Corre
Goodmorning everyone.

I have a problem now; I need to know if the enter is only at the OPENING of the candle (I forgot to underline this).

To make the system work it has to respect this:

1) The candle has just opened. A new candle I mean

2) When the new candle opens we have 3 checks (for a long enter):
a) The price of the OPENING is above 25Ema
b) The RSI is above 60 in that second
c) Macd "cross" is green
for a short enter exactly the opposite

and when I say MACD Cross I mean this indicator (it is already included in our system anyway):

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...4&d=1213847575

So the enter must be at the opening of the candle and JUST at the opening. This is very important guys, point 1) has to be respected in all our trades.

Does our Ema indicator_25 v1.6 do this?

Anyway this was just the initial idea, if we find that the way it is now, profits are bigger we obviously leave everything as it is now. But we really need to have the endicator show the exact entry point and leave SL_TP from the entry point not the opening.

Come on boys, just the last efforts. The indicator is almost ultimated.
Yes, an opening of a trade is based on a new candle (open of a candle).
Closing or taking profit is based on the current/close price.
  • #1,895
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:05am Jul 18, 2008 3:05am
Quoting fireeee
I really don`t want to disappoint you but it is better for you to know the truth . The only way to avoid the repainting is to enter at the close of the bar.And the reason for that is the RSI. You can say if it have crossed 60 or 40 only at the close of the bar.
I wish you best.
Well, that's why we use the opening of a bar - because it is usually equal to the close of the last candle...
  • #1,896
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:08am Jul 18, 2008 3:08am
Quoting tonirai
Yes fireeee, we are aware of that
In the curent coding conditions, if a signal comes but the price movement goes against it, it disapears (because conditions for the signal aren't all there anymore, and the candle hasn't close yet).

My observation wasn't due to this fact, it was because of TP1 appearing at the same time, as I thought it would count pip from the entry point (instead of from the opening of the candle).

But I still don't call it repainting... at least comparing to what I have seen in other indicators, in which all the past data changes!
Check the COG indicator in the The art of Trading MAs thread... and you'll see what I mean!
Ok, lets assume I will use the open of a bar for the above/below 25EMA - this part of the logic will remain constant.
The only thing that could change is the indicators - RSI and MACD.
If we will take these values from the last bar then we will have constant values that match the close of the last bar (= the opening of the current bar).
What do you say?
  • #1,897
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:09am Jul 18, 2008 3:09am
And also - TP and SL will always be repainted since they are based on the current/close price - this is the only way.
Regarding the open of a trade - read my last post.

Thank you all for keeping me working - it would have been hard to do it alone...
  • #1,898
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:16am Jul 18, 2008 3:16am
Quoting ronmatzkin
Ok, lets assume I will use the open of a bar for the above/below 25EMA - this part of the logic will remain constant.
The only thing that could change is the indicators - RSI and MACD.
If we will take these values from the last bar then we will have constant values that match the close of the last bar (= the opening of the current bar).
What do you say?
You read my mind!
I was exactly trying to apply this logic to the code right now, to see the effect on it.
But I'm going to now... been working (at my job) all night long
  • #1,899
  • Jul 18, 2008 3:24am Jul 18, 2008 3:24am
Quoting ronmatzkin
And also - TP and SL will always be repainted since they are based on the current/close price - this is the only way.
Regarding the open of a trade - read my last post.

Thank you all for keeping me working - it would have been hard to do it alone...
Yes and no...

For past data, it won't (and will be accurate with this change);
For current candle, it will but it doesn't matter, because the purpose is to take profit or assume loss as soon as the price hits and triggers SL or TP signals.

You understand what I mean?
  • #1,900
  • Jul 18, 2008 12:21pm Jul 18, 2008 12:21pm
Quoting ronmatzkin
Ok, lets assume I will use the open of a bar for the above/below 25EMA - this part of the logic will remain constant.
The only thing that could change is the indicators - RSI and MACD.
If we will take these values from the last bar then we will have constant values that match the close of the last bar (= the opening of the current bar).
What do you say?
OK... I've tried it, but it gives a lot more black crosses

Don't forget this way we are only having entry signals at the open of a new candle, meaning we miss a lot of possible good entry points during the previous candle, not taking advantage of some momentum movements.

But my guess is there's nothing more we can do to improve it without having an EA to test it... what do you think guys?
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