Subscription coding into EA? | Forex Factory

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Subscription coding into EA?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jun 26, 2008 12:34pm Jun 26, 2008 12:34pm
Hello,

I've been working on an EA - still working out bugs, but it's showing some promise.

I am not considering setting it up as a monthly subscription. But I know it can be a pain to have to recode the EA for a particular account #.

So I am wondering if there is some code that will allow the EA to check a subscription status on a website? In other words - if it was sold via a PayPal subscription for example, I could potentially have an interface on a separate site (that tracks the subscription status) that the EA could poll with the account # on the day after the Expire date to check if the subscription has been paid (what the "new" expire date is) - so if not expired, it allows it to continue running.

Is something like that possible? If not, is there a good alternative that would allow the subscriber to easily enter a new code that is generated after payment is made (say from an email receipt) and the EA would recognize that the code is valid or not?

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!
  • #2
  • Jun 26, 2008 12:45pm Jun 26, 2008 12:45pm
Yes, you can code a DLL to do such a thing.

Be aware, though, that EAs are easily decompiled. So, even if you build in a subscription check, someone who decompiles your EA can remove it easily.

A safer route would be to code the EA which you give to your clients to be basically a brainless slave (only to submit orders & perform rudimentary management functions), but use your DLL to call your server, where the real trading logic is kept safely on your master EA, which only you have access to.
Dave
  • #3
  • Jun 26, 2008 1:48pm Jun 26, 2008 1:48pm
Quoting DaveL
Yes, you can code a DLL to do such a thing.

Be aware, though, that EAs are easily decompiled. So, even if you build in a subscription check, someone who decompiles your EA can remove it easily.

A safer route would be to code the EA which you give to your clients to be basically a brainless slave (only to submit orders & perform rudimentary management functions), but use your DLL to call your server, where the real trading logic is kept safely on your master EA, which only you have access to.
How do you decompile an EA?
"White collar crime deserves a blue collar beating!" - 8fingers
  • #4
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:08pm Jun 26, 2008 2:08pm
Quoting DramaKing
How do you decompile an EA?

Beware!

Decompiling and altering, or using proprietary information for your own profit is Copyright infringement, and/or theft of intelectual property. if you don't have the source code, chances are the author doesn't want you to have it, and probably for good reason.

Rusty
  • #5
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:09pm Jun 26, 2008 2:09pm
Quoting rusty105
Beware!

Decompiling and altering, or using proprietary information for your own profit is Copyright infringement, and/or theft of intelectual property. if you don't have the source code, chances are the author doesn't want you to have it, and probably for good reason.

Rusty
Of course it is... but if I loose the source codes to my own EA's, it would be legal.
"White collar crime deserves a blue collar beating!" - 8fingers
  • #6
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:11pm Jun 26, 2008 2:11pm
Quoting DramaKing
Of course it is... but if I loose the source codes to my own EA's, it would be legal.
Of course, if you were the author of the EAs, no harm, no foul!

Rusty
  • #7
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:19pm Jun 26, 2008 2:19pm
Quoting DramaKing
How do you decompile an EA?
If you don't have your own MQL4 decompiler, you can always ask someone who has one to decompile it for you.
Dave
  • #8
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:27pm Jun 26, 2008 2:27pm
Quoting rusty105
Beware!

Decompiling and altering, or using proprietary information for your own profit is Copyright infringement, and/or theft of intelectual property. if you don't have the source code, chances are the author doesn't want you to have it, and probably for good reason.

Rusty
That may be true legally, but let's not be too naive: reverse engineering is as old as engineering.

(Even governments are actively engaged in reverse engineering proprietary technologies without any moral qualms or legal constraints.)

Word to the wise: there are whole forums devoted to decompiling any commercial EA it can get its hands on.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm just saying it's being done.
Dave
  • #9
  • Jun 26, 2008 2:54pm Jun 26, 2008 2:54pm
I agree, reverse engineering has been around forever, and yes there are those who will decompile for you. I guess you still need to know what you are doing, otherwise it will bite you in the end.

Rusty
  • #10
  • Jun 26, 2008 5:12pm Jun 26, 2008 5:12pm
Yes, totally agree ... but I think that's why some people decompile ... not so much to profit from someone else's work, but to understand the trading logic, so as to make a better decision whether to entrust real money to the EA. Otherwise, the EA is just a black-box, which has the potential to bite.

The whole software industry faces the same issue, which is why open-source is so appealing to those who strongly believe that "Knowledge should be free."
Dave
  • #11
  • Jun 27, 2008 4:57am Jun 27, 2008 4:57am
I can make pretty safe EAs using DLLs. They have never been cracked. Its not impossible but its just too damn painful...
  • #12
  • Jun 27, 2008 7:24am Jun 27, 2008 7:24am
I say just distribute an account-copier EA.

Change the account every period and give them the new number accordingly.
  • #13
  • Jun 27, 2008 7:36am Jun 27, 2008 7:36am
Yes, I've written commercial EAs which use DLLs for security purposes, too, including 128-bit encryption. In general, DLLs are much harder to crack than MT4 executables (since .ex4 are compiled only to the level of bytecode, which is way too easy to reverse). But even DLLs can be decompiled with enough effort.

I think if someone is really wanting to completely safeguard his logic, the safest way to do it is to set up his own server in his living room running a master EA (which holds the trading logic) and basically acts as a signal server to an authorized client's slave EA. This way, the EA always remains safely in the owner's possession, and the client's slave EA is useless if unauthorized (e.g. subscription expired, pirated copy, etc.)
Dave
  • #14
  • Jun 27, 2008 7:38am Jun 27, 2008 7:38am
Quoting Ronald Raygun
I say just distribute an account-copier EA.

Change the account every period and give them the new number accordingly.
What is an account-copier EA? Please elaborate.
Dave
  • #15
  • Jun 27, 2008 8:20am Jun 27, 2008 8:20am
Well, bluntly, there are two EAs in this package:

  1. SignalSender
  2. SignalReceiver

The SignalSender is placed on Metatrader with the read-only account of the account you want to copy.

The SignalReceiver is placed on the Metatrader account which you want to copy the trades to.

SignalSender updates a file with trade information which SignalReceiver reads and applies the trade information.


For this application:

 

  1. Set up an account with your master EA running.
  2. Distribute the account copier EA.
  3. Give users the account number and read-only password
  4. Change the account every subscription period. (Weekly, Monthly, Quarterly, Annually, etc.)

That's the safest way I can think of.


Or you can avoid selling the signal service completely and just start up managed accounts =D

  • #16
  • Jun 27, 2008 8:31am Jun 27, 2008 8:31am
If I understand you correctly, there is still a possible security breach:

Someone who's on your subscription list may easily give the account # and password to someone else who is not on the list (along with a copy of the client EA). Indeed, if that someone is greedy enough, he may even offer to sell this information at a lower price than you're charging, thus making him a middle-man in a sub-market of his creation, but profiting at your expense.

You need a way to allow only those who are subscribers to benefit from your signals.
Dave
  • #17
  • Jun 27, 2008 8:40am Jun 27, 2008 8:40am
You're right, limiting distribution is a problem. There are a number of potential solutions:

 

  1. Encrypt the trades so to speak so that the signalsender will only work for trades which have a specific range of comments. (Id numbers, serial numbers, etc.)
  2. Have call-home DLLs installed so you can track all open instances.
  3. Just start a damn hedge fund.

  • #18
  • Jun 27, 2008 8:46am Jun 27, 2008 8:46am
Not the only way ...

As I explained earlier, just set up a master EA server where the slave EAs are constantly calling it to receive trading instructions. The master EA will recognize only authorized slave EAs (which can be uniqutely identified by registration info, such as account number, account name, broker name, server name, etc) to prevent unauthorized usage. (I've set up a few of these, and they run great!)

Solves all problems without needing a managed account.

But I agree, a managed account is the ultimate in security, but then we're dealing with a whole different kind of product, one which requires Series 3 CTA licensing, NFA dues & oversight, etc., at least in the U.S. Don't need any of that with the master/slave EA setup.
Dave
  • #19
  • Jun 28, 2008 6:08pm Jun 28, 2008 6:08pm
If the EA is intensive (places a lot of orders) - does that put a strain on the server if there are a lot of slave EA's interfacing with it?

What language would you program a DLL in? Is there any kind of sample interface out there that can help show what is used to basically link up the two EA's? This aspect is all new to me - I've learned how to code EA's but never thought about coding DLLs.

  • #20
  • Jun 28, 2008 6:54pm Jun 28, 2008 6:54pm
You can use any language to write a DLL, which is why DLLs are so versatile.

Here's a tutorial you can follow to write a DLL for MT4:

http://www.metatrader.info/node/150
Dave
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