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5 Min Keltner System

  • #301
  • Jun 13, 2008 7:37am Jun 13, 2008 7:37am
David,
Thanks for the update, I am running it now and will let you know what I find.

If I could add 2 suggestions?
1. can you make it so the candle timer stays intact when we add this EA, or put it in the info section the time remaining for the current candle?
2. would it be possible to make the keltner indicator name a variable setting? I am not sure how many others are using the newer keltner with the alerts. I have been manually editing your ea code to run the newer keltner (granted I could just rename the keltner instead, however I like to keep original file names to keep track of what's new and what's not etc).

Thanks, I hope to share positive feedback on it's performance in a bit!
  • #302
  • Jun 13, 2008 9:53pm Jun 13, 2008 9:53pm
I have been reading over this system and i feel that it has a lot to offer. When looking it over i noticed (attached chart) the when Stoch are in either over bought or over sold right before it heads down the current candle is inside the previous candel. Not sure if anyone else picked up on this but it seems to move about 10 pip (where you enter) up or down. maybe insted of using RSI as a guide and keeping you in or out of trades perhaps this one bar inside the previous bar could be the signal. Looking it over for the past month i see a few examples where it headed up or down and reversed but if you put your stop at 1 pip above the previous bar you are only losing about 4-6 pip. Just thought i would add my 2 cents to this system and maybe help out a little.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurjpy.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #303
  • Jun 14, 2008 3:46pm Jun 14, 2008 3:46pm
Just a note and observation about this method. I think it provides excellent entry clues for other methods such as fibs and S&R trading. For example, if you do a fib of thursdays range a nice short entry was provided at the 50% retracement fib on friday at about 1:15am GMT (2nd red arrow). If you would have held this order for the duration of the fib move your looking at 150+ pips in your account.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 061308_0130_eurusd_5min.gif Size: 21 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 061308_0130_eurusd_15min.gif Size: 17 KB
  • #304
  • Jun 15, 2008 2:06pm Jun 15, 2008 2:06pm
that is a mile and a half away from the keltner channel eh ahahah
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #305
  • Jun 15, 2008 2:14pm Jun 15, 2008 2:14pm
Jacioux and peej

great observations Im going to be checking it out this week..If you can do the same a nd perhaps post it back here Id appreciate it if you have time

Raver ..sorry not sure what you mean..

heres for a good week

Cheers Paulus
  • #306
  • Jun 15, 2008 6:27pm Jun 15, 2008 6:27pm
Watching this EA for the last couple days, I think I am noticing it not placing trades when it should, or placing them late.
However someone should verify the rules, as I am not positive I am up to date on them.
Once the close is above keltner and above both stoch's, the next bar is ticking down. Isn't the order placed during the last 10 seconds of the down bar? The EA seems to place it into the next bar, not sure why. That is when it places the trade at all, I think since open tonight I have seen 2 triggers but EA didn't place any trades.
Of course I could be missing something, as I still don't quite understand the RSI or I have the wrong RSI settings, as to me it looks pretty much like a flat line with very little movement. Maybe my RSI settings are wrong.
Anyhow, will continue to watch and monitor the EA, hopefully other's are doing the same?
  • #307
  • Jun 15, 2008 8:27pm Jun 15, 2008 8:27pm
Had a little time before i have to put my daughter to bed and here is what i traded. Starting with SUNDAY OPEN this is when the markets opened up 3pm
MST -6GMT.
A - here is the first signal as you can see we are over sold in STOCH and looking for the bounce up, BUT the candle after the bar inside DID NOT move
up i did not take the trade, there were 2 signals BOTH did not move up.
B - Stoch are heading down the small bar is inside the previous bar +10
c - Stoch are heading down the small bar is inside the previous bar +10
D - Stoch are heading up NOW this bar formed and the previous candle did nto move but if you look 2 bars ahead it did move up - DID NOT TRADE
THIS
E - Stoch heading down bar inside the previous bar +10
F - THIS IS A VALID SIGNAL the durrent bar engulfed the previous bar and STOCH are heading up +10
G - Stoch heading down bar indisde the previous bar + 10
H - was the last signal before i typed this....and looking at it now it did go up +10
+60 pips from 3pm to 9 pm (mountain standard time MST)
For what ever reason when one bar is inside of another bar and we are over bought or over sold wait for the one pip move up to confirm direction
and then enter trade. Again this might be beginners luck but that seems to be a very powerful signal and back testing over the past month i have only
found a handful of times where the signl would move then revers but if you place your stop on the previous bar you are risking about 5 - 8 pips.
Hope this helps some of you
J
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurjpy2.jpg Size: 148 KB
  • #308
  • Jun 15, 2008 8:37pm Jun 15, 2008 8:37pm
On my previous post ignor the pip on the descriptions (+10) that was just a referance for me that shows it was a valid entry and pips were positive. The total pips were the total pips i gained in that period. I held 2 moves BUT i am not posting to claim pips you can make i just wanted to show what happens when one bar is inside another...
  • #309
  • Jun 15, 2008 9:44pm Jun 15, 2008 9:44pm
Thanks for sharing.
To clarify a couple of points:
1. in example A, you are stating you are looking for a bounce up, do you mean a bounce down? You are looking to short there, so the next bar you want lower than the signal bar?
2. In example A, couldn't you have waited til the 5th bar after the open, where it is still over the stoch then drops on the next bar for entry?
3. are you using the keltner bands? If so, there are quite a few trades there (B,C,F) that aren't closed above the upper. This another adjustment you have made?

Am sure I have more questions, but that's enough for now
  • #310
  • Jun 16, 2008 12:05am Jun 16, 2008 12:05am
David,
Another EA observation (along with it not taking all the signals properly I think, as mentioned previously).
The EA is taking a signal and behaving properly UNTIL the trade goes the wrong direction and stops out. At that point, instead of just taking the 6 pip loss and waiting for another signal, it is chasing it. As soon as it hits the stop, it instantly places a new order, with another 6 pip SL and the orignal TP level. I assume you did this on purpose but wasn't aware that was part of this trading system. Anyhow, in the case of 06:40 candle (fxdd time), this sucker just kept dropping like a bomb and the EA triggered 4 trades on this bar alone.
I assume it did it for you as well so you are aware, but if you need more detail let me know.
  • #311
  • Jun 16, 2008 1:03am Jun 16, 2008 1:03am
Hi Jacioux,

thanks for your observations. Do I summarize it correctly when you:
- take longs only after the bar following an inside bar breaks the inside bar to the upside
- take a short only after the bar following an inside bar breaks the inside bar to the downside
- apply both rules only when both price action is outside the Keltner bands (below it for going lon, above it for going short) and the STOCHs confirm direction.

Would that be a correct summary of your findings?

cheers
Ohka


Quoting jacioux
Had a little time before i have to put my daughter to bed and here is what i traded. Starting with SUNDAY OPEN this is when the markets opened up 3pm
MST -6GMT.
A - here is the first signal as you can see we are over sold in STOCH and looking for the bounce up, BUT the candle after the bar inside DID NOT move
up i did not take the trade, there were 2 signals BOTH did not move up.
B - Stoch are heading down the small bar is inside the previous bar +10
c - Stoch are heading down the small bar is inside the previous bar +10
D - Stoch are heading up NOW this bar formed and the previous candle did nto move but if you look 2 bars ahead it did move up - DID NOT TRADE
THIS
E - Stoch heading down bar inside the previous bar +10
F - THIS IS A VALID SIGNAL the durrent bar engulfed the previous bar and STOCH are heading up +10
G - Stoch heading down bar indisde the previous bar + 10
H - was the last signal before i typed this....and looking at it now it did go up +10
+60 pips from 3pm to 9 pm (mountain standard time MST)
For what ever reason when one bar is inside of another bar and we are over bought or over sold wait for the one pip move up to confirm direction
and then enter trade. Again this might be beginners luck but that seems to be a very powerful signal and back testing over the past month i have only
found a handful of times where the signl would move then revers but if you place your stop on the previous bar you are risking about 5 - 8 pips.
Hope this helps some of you
J
  • #312
  • Jun 16, 2008 7:14am Jun 16, 2008 7:14am
Quoting tazmaan
Thanks for sharing.
To clarify a couple of points:
1. in example A, you are stating you are looking for a bounce up, do you mean a bounce down? You are looking to short there, so the next bar you want lower than the signal bar?
2. In example A, couldn't you have waited til the 5th bar after the open, where it is still over the stoch then drops on the next bar for entry?
3. are you using the keltner bands? If so, there are quite a few trades there (B,C,F) that aren't closed above the upper. This another adjustment you have made?

Am sure I have more questions, but that's enough for now
Hello Tazmaan,

You are correct on the bounce down there.

As for the band yes i do use them but i use them more for a comfirmation. Just to mention the bar inside does have a name its called a Harami (just learned that). So an example would be lets say i notice that the bars are getting closer to either the high or low band, i then wait for the Harami to form near that bar and then enter. I understand the system now wants the bar to be on the outside but i just noticed that when the Harami does form its close to the bars, and if it does form on the outside of the bands then the move has a lot more momentum with it. I also use the base system found on the first post of this system.

My main point i want to point out is the formation of the bar before a move. Granted there are a lot of other valid signals and this system is just amazing i like to have more confirmation when i trade.
  • #313
  • Jun 16, 2008 7:21am Jun 16, 2008 7:21am
Quoting Ohka
Hi Jacioux,

thanks for your observations. Do I summarize it correctly when you:
- take longs only after the bar following an inside bar breaks the inside bar to the upside
- take a short only after the bar following an inside bar breaks the inside bar to the downside
- apply both rules only when both price action is outside the Keltner bands (below it for going lon, above it for going short) and the STOCHs confirm direction.

Would that be a correct summary of your findings?

cheers
Ohka
Ohka,

That your summary is correct. But i also want to point out that i use the Keltner bands as a guide. If the Harami (bar inside) i wait for the Hatami to form only near the bands not inside them.

If you go back to the first post whent he system is being described i use that as my templete and ONLY enter when Stoch are over bought or over sold. I NEVER enter even when the Harami forms and i DO NOT have the stoch in either postion. The base set up of this system is key i am only pointing out what the bars like to do before they make there move. I have only noticed this EUR/USD and the best time (i feel) to trade this is 10pm to 6 am (MST) that is about 6 hours behind GMT.

thanks
  • #314
  • Jun 16, 2008 8:17am Jun 16, 2008 8:17am
Thank you Jacioux for precising your methods.

take care,
Ohka
  • #315
  • Edited 9:51am Jun 16, 2008 8:38am | Edited 9:51am
Quoting tazmaan
David,
Another EA observation (along with it not taking all the signals properly I think, as mentioned previously).
The EA is taking a signal and behaving properly UNTIL the trade goes the wrong direction and stops out. At that point, instead of just taking the 6 pip loss and waiting for another signal, it is chasing it. As soon as it hits the stop, it instantly places a new order, with another 6 pip SL and the orignal TP level. I assume you did this on purpose but wasn't aware that was part of this trading system. Anyhow, in the case of 06:40 candle (fxdd time), this sucker just kept dropping like a bomb and the EA triggered 4 trades on this bar alone.
I assume it did it for you as well so you are aware, but if you need more detail let me know.


Thanks, no it isn't supposed to chase after the trade like that, and I think I see what is happening. I am now working on fixing it. I will post an updated ea when I get it done.
"No man is free who is not master of himself"
  • #316
  • Jun 16, 2008 9:55am Jun 16, 2008 9:55am
my trading didn't go so well today (1-4), but I didn't have much time to trade. Here is my chart
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: chart6-16gif.gif Size: 31 KB
"No man is free who is not master of himself"
  • #317
  • Jun 16, 2008 12:41pm Jun 16, 2008 12:41pm
fib and S/R notes - monday June 16

My goal is to use the Paulus system for entries that i can keep going all day long. My bias was down today because trend is down until it changes right? Well it was down for a while but went up.

(1) 61.8 fib of fridays range. Didn't stick.
(2) 61.8 fib of fridays range. Stuck for a while.
(3) Reversal. Gold and oil rising, 5350 Support (Euro seems to have support at all 00 and 50 levels), and 61.8 fib of up trend starting on Friday.
(4) If you missed entry 3 then entry 4 was a nice break/retest of 61.8 level and it was a 38.2 retracement of the new uptrend and it was approx 5400 level support.

I got trades 1,2, and 4. Missed 3 because my bias was down.
--peej

Remember everybody, German ZEW tommorow
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 061608_0130_eurusd_5min.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #318
  • Jun 16, 2008 6:07pm Jun 16, 2008 6:07pm
Quoting tazmaan
David,
Thanks for the update, I am running it now and will let you know what I find.

If I could add 2 suggestions?
1. can you make it so the candle timer stays intact when we add this EA, or put it in the info section the time remaining for the current candle?
2. would it be possible to make the keltner indicator name a variable setting? I am not sure how many others are using the newer keltner with the alerts. I have been manually editing your ea code to run the newer keltner (granted I could just rename the keltner instead, however I like to keep original file names to keep track of what's new and what's not etc).

Thanks, I hope to share positive feedback on it's performance in a bit!

I am not sure how to do the first one? But you can use the clock ind that I attached, and it will show you the bar time, or you can take the comments out of my expert(they are only there so I can see what is going on with it.

And I took care of number 2.

Anyway, we are getting closer. Give this one a try, and let me know if it trades according to the plan.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Clock v1_2.mq4   8 KB | 440 downloads
File Type: mq4 Keltner_0_3.mq4   13 KB | 530 downloads
"No man is free who is not master of himself"
  • #319
  • Jun 16, 2008 10:18pm Jun 16, 2008 10:18pm
Thanks David,
I have put it in place and will keep an eye out. As far as the candle timer issue, in the next update if you could just move your comment section down a couple of lines it might fix the problem? Worth a shot.

I have already noticed what I think was a missed trade. I am not sure what rules you are using specifically tho. From what I follow, bar closes above keltner and above both stochs, it's a valid signal. Next bar must be a down bar and in the last 10 seconds of the bar we place a sell order.
I am not sure if this is what you are doing, but if so, the candle that just closed a trade wasn't placed (interbank time 05:05 is the signal, 05:10 should have been the entry bar).
I'll watch out for our chasing issue in the meantime.
Keep up the good work!!
  • #320
  • Jun 17, 2008 12:34am Jun 17, 2008 12:34am
Quoting tazmaan
Thanks David,
I have put it in place and will keep an eye out. As far as the candle timer issue, in the next update if you could just move your comment section down a couple of lines it might fix the problem? Worth a shot.

I have already noticed what I think was a missed trade. I am not sure what rules you are using specifically tho. From what I follow, bar closes above keltner and above both stochs, it's a valid signal. Next bar must be a down bar and in the last 10 seconds of the bar we place a sell order.
I am not sure if this is what you are doing, but if so, the candle that just closed a trade wasn't placed (interbank time 05:05 is the signal, 05:10 should have been the entry bar).
I'll watch out for our chasing issue in the meantime.
Keep up the good work!!
That is strange, because I am trading this on my alpari demo, and it got that trade.

Anyway, this is how I understand what is needed to enter a trade (Paulus can correct me if I have it wrong). Here is an example of a short trade:

1- A close above the kelter channel with the stoch above 80 and the denapoli stoch above 70

2- A down bar that also moves the stoch down

3- The last signal needs to be a long trade, or the rsi peak to peak is sloping down

4- The price needs to then retrace the limit amount before it reaches the Take profit level to enter the trade.

P.S.

Paulus, I just read on the X's thread that you had to take your daughter for an emergency operation. I hope all is well.
"No man is free who is not master of himself"
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