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  • #61
  • Jun 3, 2008 5:23pm Jun 3, 2008 5:23pm
Quoting clockwork71
Great, another angry Brit.

I used to live with one from Wiltshire. (What a psych research paper he could have been.)

It must have something to do with losing an empire I guess.
He?

anyway, DT isnt a brit, just likes to think he is
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #62
  • Jun 4, 2008 2:09pm Jun 4, 2008 2:09pm
All generalisations are dangerous, even this one.

A witty saying proves nothing.

Always keep your trading advice soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat it.
  • #63
  • Jun 4, 2008 3:27pm Jun 4, 2008 3:27pm
Quoting daytrading
I don't care what percentage return I produce - I take a cut of the profits thats all. But if you try to make what I make with an underfunded account, you'll spend the rest of your days counting pennies.

A hedge fund that produces on average 9% annual return can live with that because they have usually more than $1billion under management - if you do 90% per year on $30K, that's still nothing in comparison - even compounded.
this is what most traders dont get... the way to get rich from trading is not with 100% returns. you get rich making 15% annual returns on a huge sum of money. i hardly ever bring this point up because most people dont want to hear it, but since you so eloquently laid it out i thought id give you some props
Relax and be happy.
  • #64
  • Jun 4, 2008 6:58pm Jun 4, 2008 6:58pm
we usually try as hard as the pressure, have hope as big as our fear...
it is the same heart with different feelings, thats all

ps: winning and loosing are also in the same equity
  • #65
  • Jun 4, 2008 10:06pm Jun 4, 2008 10:06pm
Quoting merlin
this is what most traders dont get... the way to get rich from trading is not with 100% returns. you get rich making 15% annual returns on a huge sum of money. i hardly ever bring this point up because most people dont want to hear it, but since you so eloquently laid it out i thought id give you some props
There are exceptions to this, but they are few and far between, so I would have to agree in general. However, what I was trying to say is that DT's post could have been construed by novice traders as advice to "get rich by over-leveraging". I understand that this was not the intent of the post and I believe it has been cleared up by DT himself in his follow-up post. Cheers.
  • #66
  • Jun 5, 2008 4:32am Jun 5, 2008 4:32am
Quoting soultrader
Here's my one liner ...


Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and most are full of sh*t (me included often!)
Good line. First time I heard it, was in a chat with Phil McGrew where he had the same line just with a little twist; Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all smell.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #67
  • Edited 9:29am Jun 5, 2008 7:13am | Edited 9:29am
Quoting aediaz1
Good line. First time I heard it, was in a chat with Phil McGrew where he had the same line just with a little twist; Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all smell.
Agreed. Accordingly, Forex trading forums are like farms. Some of the members produce milk and other food sources and in the barnyard they drop their opinions... I think you can smell where this is going!

Then of coarse there are the farmers who hide their opinions in a septic tank.
  • #68
  • Jun 5, 2008 11:00am Jun 5, 2008 11:00am
Quoting merlin
this is what most traders dont get... the way to get rich from trading is not with 100% returns. you get rich making 15% annual returns on a huge sum of money. i hardly ever bring this point up because most people dont want to hear it, but since you so eloquently laid it out i thought id give you some props
Couldn't agree more, I realized this tiny fact few months ago and stopped day trading. Even with 43% ROE in first 3 months of 2008 I wasn't making any economic profit. Of course accounting profit was great, but add in the implicit cost and I was losing money.

Any amount less than $50k in your account is a waste of time trading forex if you live in a decent city.
  • #69
  • Jun 5, 2008 12:07pm Jun 5, 2008 12:07pm
Quoting im7i4z
Any amount less than $50k in your account is a waste of time trading forex if you live in a decent city.
OK, obviously this thread is no longer just concise, one liners, so I'll bite.

It must be disheartening for 5K account holders to hear that they are wasting their time, so I've decided to post a few obsevations.
1. Some people are able to analyze a chart in an hour or less with amazing accuracy.
2. Some people realize that learning how to trade has an implicit price tag and are willing to waste time while learning to handle adequate account balances.
3. Some people (retail brokers included) don't want to see micro and mini sized accounts forbiden, simply because we don't want to see underfunded account holders suffer
  • #70
  • Jun 5, 2008 1:36pm Jun 5, 2008 1:36pm
Quoting Micro-MiniMe
OK, obviously this thread is no longer just concise, one liners, so I'll bite.
Yeah we should discuss this in a separate thread. May be moderators can split it from here?

My point is, yes I've spent my implicit cost for last 3 years and I'm not trying to discourage anyone trading small amounts as long as they are putting their time to "learn."

But once you are sure of your capability (which is nothing but discipline of MM) and still trading a $50k < account then you are really wasting your time.

There is no way to make $30k per year with below 50k account (which is 60% btw! of even 50k and if you think you can then I'll put my money in your hand instead of trading myself) And unless you are making 25k to 30k per year... well I'll rather get a "job."

Learn to trade... demo or $500 account, or $5k whatever but once you are ready to trade don't put $10k - $20k with hope that you can be "trading for a living." Of course, unless you are living in Tier 3 countries (I'm from one) where living expense is low and US $4000 - $5000 of cash flow per year is considered "Higher Middle Class/Higher Class" already with your re-conditioned Toyota and Generic Brand HD TV, made in Taiwan.

I hope I've cleared my stance.
  • #71
  • Edited 9:54pm Jun 5, 2008 8:34pm | Edited 9:54pm
the retail broker insist us to use money that doesn't afect our life style....
in other words.... should we want to trade for living, don't use retail broker....
and i read somewhere that 50k is the minimum size to open an account somewhere?..... is this where that number came from...?

if 50k is spare money, we sohould keep the job who give it
  • #72
  • Jun 6, 2008 2:02am Jun 6, 2008 2:02am
Quoting Gwan
the retail broker insist us to use money that doesn't afect our life style....
in other words.... should we want to trade for living, don't use retail broker....
and i read somewhere that 50k is the minimum size to open an account somewhere?..... is this where that number came from...?

if 50k is spare money, we sohould keep the job who give it
$50k is the minimum at Dukascopy. A lot of currenex brokers require minimum of $10k deposit, and even then you've got to be agile working that one standard lot you have your disposal since you're already stretching the bounds of safety as is and more lots would be suicide.
Never underestimate the powers of the Force.
  • #73
  • Edited 9:04am Jun 6, 2008 6:55am | Edited 9:04am
Maximum and minimum amounts required/allowed vary between reatail brokers. My first broker was $250 minimum and $2500 maximum to open a mini account and $2500-$100,000 for standard in 2004-5. Currently IBFX is $250-$5000 for mini and $2500 minimum and no maximum for a standard account.

This raises several questions about how orders are handled and how well they get filled by our retail brokers. It seams logical to me that the standard account holders might have more difficulty getting fills on large orders due to the fact that you need someone to take the opposite side of your trade. It could also explain one reason why money managers and large speculators have so little patience when talking to us teenie-weenies. We aren't exposed to the same pressure and trading circumstances. We are like the the youngest kid on the street who is still riding bike with training wheels while the older kids all ride BMXs and skate boards.
  • #74
  • Jun 6, 2008 8:38am Jun 6, 2008 8:38am
"Don't try gate-crashing a party full of bankers - burn the house down!"

by whom?? Any ideas?
  • #75
  • Jun 6, 2008 11:39pm Jun 6, 2008 11:39pm
Opinions are like assholes - they all smell, but some smell less than the others.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #76
  • Jun 7, 2008 1:42pm Jun 7, 2008 1:42pm
Quoting daytrading
Everything is relative.

regards
daytrading
That reminds me of a t-shirt I used to see a lot. It said...

"In West Virgina, everything's relative."

(With a picture of two hillbillys holding hands.)

  • #77
  • Jun 7, 2008 7:28pm Jun 7, 2008 7:28pm
Quoting merlin
this is what most traders dont get... the way to get rich from trading is not with 100% returns. you get rich making 15% annual returns on a huge sum of money. i hardly ever bring this point up because most people dont want to hear it, but since you so eloquently laid it out i thought id give you some props
Sobering advice, and a great truth.
I prefer to believe that 15% annually is rather understating the case.
However there is no getting away from the fact that if you are trading only your own money you definitely need a good-sized capital stake.
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #78
  • Jun 8, 2008 5:25pm Jun 8, 2008 5:25pm
Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game - Winston Churchill
  • #79
  • Jun 11, 2008 5:00am Jun 11, 2008 5:00am
When you think you should tweak your system (that's been working), it's time to stop using it.
  • #80
  • Jun 11, 2008 6:06am Jun 11, 2008 6:06am
Quoting clockwork71
That reminds me of a t-shirt I used to see a lot. It said...

"In West Virgina, everything's relative."

(With a picture of two hillbillys holding hands.)

Some people on this forum might be from West Virginia. But it's OK, we have a sense of humor too.
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