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MT4 Brokers' Virtual Dealer Plug-In

  • #281
  • May 26, 2008 3:44am May 26, 2008 3:44am
Wouldn't your stops and takes be just as disguised if they were stored in the EA itself until the order was made? Same issue with slippage but the broker doesn't actually see the code of the EA a trader is running, do they?
  • #282
  • May 26, 2008 10:22am May 26, 2008 10:22am
think about what you all are saying... in any type of trading stops tend to build up at certain levels. no matter how origninal you think you are there is a really good chance that wherever you place your stops is pretty close to where everyone else has theirs.

Now whether you are in forex or futures or stocks somebody is going to be vulnerable with all those stops at a certain level. In exchange traded instruments locals or major players will make an effort to run the market up or down to knock out those stops to protect themselves. In forex it is no different, when these orders begin to build up a market maker will look to knock out those orders because they are at a huge risk,

Brokers will nevergo after just one account. its not worth it. but you probably arent the only one with stops at a certain level and as they build up the odds of an artificail move are more likely.

Now if you think about trading as a big game how can you take advantage of that?
  • #283
  • May 26, 2008 12:12pm May 26, 2008 12:12pm
Quoting Voldemort
think about what you all are saying... in any type of trading stops tend to build up at certain levels. no matter how origninal you think you are there is a really good chance that wherever you place your stops is pretty close to where everyone else has theirs.

Now whether you are in forex or futures or stocks somebody is going to be vulnerable with all those stops at a certain level. In exchange traded instruments locals or major players will make an effort to run the market up or down to knock out those stops to protect themselves. In forex it is no different, when these orders begin to build up a market maker will look to knock out those orders because they are at a huge risk,

Brokers will nevergo after just one account. its not worth it. but you probably arent the only one with stops at a certain level and as they build up the odds of an artificail move are more likely.

Now if you think about trading as a big game how can you take advantage of that?

I wish more people would understand this concept on this forum. Everyday we get so many posts about people being concerned about broker going after their stops. Its just so silly.
  • #284
  • May 27, 2008 2:50am May 27, 2008 2:50am
"I wish more people would understand this concept on this forum. Everyday we get so many posts about people being concerned about broker going after their stops. Its just so silly. "

i totally agree with you Good, i mean if these brokers really hunted stops they would be open to massive arbitrage, and i for one would be taking advantage of this. All i was saying was that because people seem to be concerned that brokers somehow monitor ea's, the way to circumvent this would be to run the ea on a different MT4 broker, and execute on the other.
  • #285
  • May 27, 2008 8:05am May 27, 2008 8:05am
i want to say just becareful
  • #286
  • May 27, 2008 9:00am May 27, 2008 9:00am
That's right!
Afterall, no self respecting forex broker, as they certainly all are, or at least mostly, would ever partition you off from the rest of the larger(?) market and simply take your stop out. No way! And no broker would post on a bulletin board to make his case as if he were a retail trader. Now just go and trade that OTC, unregulated, or at least mostly, off exchange market. It's not a broker problem. No problem at all.
  • #287
  • May 27, 2008 9:08pm May 27, 2008 9:08pm
Please don't utter the trash. It seems that the IBs are raising their voice suddenly after a brief period of silence. Don't you morons know that there remains this plug-in and what and how it works? My friend at FXDD lost money due to a sudden stupid quote which appears impossible - well, brokers can manipulate and they do sometimes albeit not always. They are greedy, too much greedy. Stop haunting, gap widening etc are regular features. Just a few years ago, the spreads were not widening - same software but the brokers have changed due to extreme greed. Why shout unnecessarily - we have to co-exist but I hate damn lies. That's the main reason you'll see many people have moved out of spot fx in recent times. It's true that some of the brokers are relatively good and that's a fact. Can you explain why the star performing EAs of demo definitely fail at live if the brokers really allow entry in to the REAL interbank market? Another of my trader friend moved out of fx and trading now with a exchange regulated market with the same startegies and been getting very impressive results but she has been steadily losing money in spot fx. I solely blame the brokers - of course I agree it takes time to feel the market.

- Sukhen
  • #288
  • May 28, 2008 12:47am May 28, 2008 12:47am
Quoting sukhen
Please don't utter the trash. It seems that the IBs are raising their voice suddenly after a brief period of silence. Don't you morons know that there remains this plug-in and what and how it works? My friend at FXDD lost money due to a sudden stupid quote which appears impossible - well, brokers can manipulate and they do sometimes albeit not always. They are greedy, too much greedy. Stop haunting, gap widening etc are regular features. Just a few years ago, the spreads were not widening - same software but the brokers have changed due to extreme greed. Why shout unnecessarily - we have to co-exist but I hate damn lies. That's the main reason you'll see many people have moved out of spot fx in recent times. It's true that some of the brokers are relatively good and that's a fact. Can you explain why the star performing EAs of demo definitely fail at live if the brokers really allow entry in to the REAL interbank market? Another of my trader friend moved out of fx and trading now with a exchange regulated market with the same startegies and been getting very impressive results but she has been steadily losing money in spot fx. I solely blame the brokers - of course I agree it takes time to feel the market.

- Sukhen
Here we go again...lol. Well your friend lost money to FXDD, another friend also lost money to another broker. What about you? Do you trade? Have you ever tried checking it out for yourself what the reality is? Most retailer "traders" lose money consistently in trading...not just forex but all forms of trading. As for "star performing EA's ", I expressed my opinion here.
  • #289
  • May 28, 2008 7:58pm May 28, 2008 7:58pm
lol, lol...yeh, we are laughing out loud too. But probably for different reasons. Thank goodness the truth about spot forex is out there now. Yes. I trade. The reality is that retail spot forex sucks greatly.
  • #290
  • May 28, 2008 8:34pm May 28, 2008 8:34pm
Quoting good
Here we go again...lol. Well your friend lost money to FXDD, another friend also lost money to another broker. What about you? Do you trade? Have you ever tried checking it out for yourself what the reality is? Most retailer "traders" lose money consistently in trading...not just forex but all forms of trading. As for "star performing EA's ", I expressed my opinion here.
Yes, I trade but I am not very regular;I trade only when I feel like and the market condition looks good to me. I also have been well burned by Martingales 2 times and surprisingly, you know what - same MT4 platform, same broker and the demo recovered in a very elegant way where the live failed miserably. IBs don't really give a sh!t but can you deny this stupid plug-in or the non availability of the true interbank market?

I have also fallen victim of sudden spread widening but the brokers could not haunt my stops as I don't use any except trailers but I remain extremely careful while I trade. Well, I have got back to manual systems as for sure, if the plug-in is used, most of the EAs are bound to fail. I don't accept strategy testing as the results pragmatically vary a lot. I don't scalp and look for a target and if I achieve it, I just get out of it.

In a regular exchange controlled market, the spreads naturally vary. I was doing pretty good in intraday options in a different market but due to liquidity crunch, my genuine profits sometimes do produce losses as the gaps widen nowadays but I can't complain there as I can very well see the nearest 5 bids and asks. You must be well aware that in fx markets, the spreads are manipulated to remain fixed and some brokers are still guaranteeing that their spreads will not widen while others won't. Isn't it pure greed?

At the +ve side, my broker refunded my money for not honoring a T/P level while the price actually touched. It happened 2 times with 2 different brokers and I appreciated in both the cases.

If you are a trader, can you be honest and share your experience? I did not hide anything. Can you please be totally honest.

TIA

- Sukhen
  • #291
  • May 28, 2008 9:10pm May 28, 2008 9:10pm
i dont think that all brokers are scum in fact some are very good. the reality is that execution is ALWAYS going to be different between a demo and a live account if the broker is doing it the RIGHT way. Markets are Fickle and you cannot always get filled at the price you want especially if you are trading in fast markets or with large volume. its just the way it is. read any trading book and you will see for yourself.

Take for instance "reminicences of a stock operator" the main character cant get the fills that he wants when he moves from the bucket shop or the big time.

Read any chapter of "new Market Wizards" and you will listen to these Millionaire CTA talk about getting good fills and they dont even use brokers they get things right from the source.

What i'm saying is dont think that because you've traded on a retail platform for a couple years you know everything there is to know about the market or brokers. some times you have to adjust to the conditions that the markets and sometimes you have to adjust to your broker
  • #292
  • May 29, 2008 12:39am May 29, 2008 12:39am
To be honest, I think metatrader is not really meant for professional trading, its just a toy for newbies to get acquainted with trading (and free charting ).
Trading is supposed to be in an environment where you can see the liquidity in level 2 and your orders get filled from the liquidity that you see. And I would not even think of using an EA in an environment where I am in the dark as in metatrader. If I were to use an EA, I would code one in Java or C++ and use it with an ECN offering API. I trade with an ECN manually and never had any problems. I believe that most of the people blaming brokers for detecting EA's and stop hunting, do not know how the market works.
  • #293
  • May 29, 2008 3:49am May 29, 2008 3:49am
Quoting Voldemort
i dont think that all brokers are scum in fact some are very good. the reality is that execution is ALWAYS going to be different between a demo and a live account if the broker is doing it the RIGHT way. Markets are Fickle and you cannot always get filled at the price you want especially if you are trading in fast markets or with large volume. its just the way it is. read any trading book and you will see for yourself.

Take for instance "reminicences of a stock operator" the main character cant get the fills that he wants when he moves from the bucket shop or the big time.

Read any chapter of "new Market Wizards" and you will listen to these Millionaire CTA talk about getting good fills and they dont even use brokers they get things right from the source.

What i'm saying is dont think that because you've traded on a retail platform for a couple years you know everything there is to know about the market or brokers. some times you have to adjust to the conditions that the markets and sometimes you have to adjust to your broker
I agree with you in most of the things you mentioned. My fx brokers returned money considering their platform was at fault - once the platform froze and I was unable to take the profit, nor my T/P was executed. Now whatever happens, I am not going to leave this broker who seem to be better. They have increased my confidence in them and I know that my broker is with me in such cases. Not all are scams but scams are abundant on the net and thatswhy broker selection is an important part of the game.

I know their gaps widen during news as probably they take opposite trades technically but they force us to not work during those hours. I observed another thing recently that people in general have lost interest trading the news and even the NFP spikes are nothing compared to the ones a few years ago. But still, gaps widen crazily. Some of them like CMS just unhook the net connection but they maintain the spread. What a joke!

Best.

- Sukhen
  • #294
  • May 29, 2008 3:57am May 29, 2008 3:57am
Quoting good
To be honest, I think metatrader is not really meant for professional trading, its just a toy for newbies to get acquainted with trading (and free charting ).
Trading is supposed to be in an environment where you can see the liquidity in level 2 and your orders get filled from the liquidity that you see. And I would not even think of using an EA in an environment where I am in the dark as in metatrader. If I were to use an EA, I would code one in Java or C++ and use it with an ECN offering API. I trade with an ECN manually and never had any problems. I believe that most of the people blaming brokers for detecting EA's and stop hunting, do not know how the market works.
If you are outta MT4, I have not much to say. MT4 appears to be a class of a technical platform with its simplicity and great styles of operation. Although I also use ECN and many other types of platforms in various markets, I have never found any easier than this one. It's a pity, a shame that MetaQuotes had to write this plug-in for their clients which is bad for their reputation. I am still all praise for MT4 but of course without this plug-in.

Best.

- Sukhen
  • #295
  • Jun 1, 2008 12:41pm Jun 1, 2008 12:41pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
http://www.pfxglobal.com/index.php?o...179&Itemid=164

Make sure you watch the video on the bottom....
Very interesting video....
http://amadeo.blog.com/repository/1344360/2992858.gif
  • #296
  • Jun 2, 2008 10:34pm Jun 2, 2008 10:34pm
For more "non-stop" fun, chase this blog and find the article spiked "Divine Justice".
  • #297
  • Jun 2, 2008 11:17pm Jun 2, 2008 11:17pm
Quoting Trademesilly
For more "non-stop" fun, chase this blog and find the article spiked "Divine Justice".
Hey, thats a really nice blog. Thanks for posting.
  • #298
  • Jun 3, 2008 7:39am Jun 3, 2008 7:39am
Quoting Playmaker
This is to the Mods: I'm not sure where to complain or comment but I am tired of coming to threads time and time again to find information about a subject that I am interested with and all I can find is posts after post from Hi-jackers about some other issue. It seems some posters spend all their time on here bad mouthing other posters and the whole thing is tiresome and childish.
I am not a frequent poster however I have enjoyed coming here over the years to find information on subjects that interest me. A thread begins and denigrates to some sort of pixxxng match which only the bystanders get wet.
And to the pixxxers don’t bother slamming me I will not respond.
"Thank you so much" for your "interesting" post(s) .Your "contribution" to this forum was "huge".
I can't wait to read your 16th post
  • #299
  • Edited 1:06pm Jun 4, 2008 12:39pm | Edited 1:06pm
Quoting ILclitoride
"Thank you so much" for your "interesting" post(s) .Your "contribution" to this forum was "huge".
I can't wait to read your 16th post
... http://digilander.libero.it/le.facci...abeto/h_12.gifhttp://digilander.libero.it/le.facci...abeto/u_12.gifhttp://digilander.libero.it/le.facci...abeto/g_12.gifhttp://digilander.libero.it/le.facci...abeto/e_12.gif
... ...
  • #300
  • Jul 4, 2008 12:31pm Jul 4, 2008 12:31pm
So, what's the general consensus, if any, on this guys? From what I've read (and I've read every page and post) it seems that the way to kinda get around this is with longer term trades. I see people saying use MT4 for the charts and use an ECN for your actual trades. Others say not all brokers who use MT4 are crooks.

The first page of this thread had me shaking in my boots and I haven't gone live yet. I'm fresh into my 3rd month of demo trading and feeling more like I'm ready to go live. I feel better after reading all the relevant posts.

So, are there many here who are still using mt4 for their trades and are having a good experience? What mt4 brokers are you using? Is there a website with a list of some good ECN's? I'll google around but I appreciate the info all the same.
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