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5 Min Keltner System

  • #201
  • May 24, 2008 7:04am May 24, 2008 7:04am
Is there a 1 click trading method like in VT Trader?
It's just so damn slow when you manually enter a trade with MT4.
Press F9 -> select pair (happend a few times that I thought I'd trade the pair I'm currently viewing but instead I traded somethingelse because it was not selected in the dropdown. -> Loss) blabalbbla
  • #202
  • May 24, 2008 7:22am May 24, 2008 7:22am
Quoting Paulus
Hi All

We may of fixed the K trading system its taken 10 days or so but it now looks very promising.

I will post my template and the Stoch Di with this post also

SIGNAL LONG

  1. Price closes below bottom K line
  2. Stoch Di below 30
  3. Stoch normal below 20
  4. Stoch normal ticks up at the same time as an up bar

Entry

  1. Set a lmt buy 2 pips below the close of the signal candle
  2. Wait for the lmt buy to get filled
  3. Fix the stop 1 pip below the low of the entry candle
  4. Set target is 10 pips

RULE

  1. Once we have our lmt buy order placed we wait for price to come down to our set lmt.As long as the calculated target has not been hit we leave this order open
  2. To make things clearer if the close of the candle is 10 we set our lmt buy to 8 our prospective target is 18 as long as price hasn't hit 18 we leave our lmt buy open
  3. If the target of 18 ( example above) is hit and we havnt been filled on our lmt buy of 8 yet then at that point we cancel our order and start looking for another signal
  4. If we get a signal in the opposite direction whilst in a trade we reverse

The figures below are all signals generated and are manually back tested ,I live traded several ...as no EA is available the manual back test was the only option open to me.

The signals are taken from the whole session 0.00 to to 0.00 Monday 19th up to Friday 23rd



Monday
+10-2-2+10+10+10+10-5-3+10+10+10-11+10+10+10 =+87 pips

Tuesday
-3-1+10+10+10-8+10-7-6+10+10+10+10+10+10-5+10+10-2+10 = +88 pips

Wednesday
+10-3+10-2+10+10+10-8-5-5+10-4+10+10 = +54

Thursday
+10-4-3+10-3+10-7-7+10-5-5+10-4+10-2+10 = +30

Friday
-4+10+10-6+10-3+10-4-9+10+10-2+10+10+10 = +62

Im very happy with the above results esp the loser/winner ratio in terms of hits and size..it gives a fairly good risk return.This is done by taking the lmt buy and sell to reduce the losing trades and exit the winning trades quicker

A target of 30 pips a day is achievable I think and seems to be a good cut off point...no point in sitting in front of the pc all day !

A couple of signals a day were not taken as the lmt order was not hit before the signal hit its target so a potential 20 pips on average per day is missed by these trades but is outweighed I think by the tighter stops.

The chart I have posted shows a 'messy' signal to show you how the lmt buy order works there are other signals on the chart but not marked some winners some losers.

I have also included an example of your ticket once you are filled on the lmt price you can go into your account management and click on 'modify ticket' to adjust stop and tp to the exact pip

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/3522...20/%3E%3C/a%3E


Just awesome!

Thanks so much Paulus!!!
  • #203
  • May 24, 2008 7:24am May 24, 2008 7:24am
Hello Paulus
First of all thank you for your nice and simple system. Re your above post #200 your signal candle was the long one (close below bottom k line) .Why did not take the candle before that as your signal bar although it was under k and both stock were under 20& 30 ?
regards
  • #204
  • May 24, 2008 7:39am May 24, 2008 7:39am
Quoting harar
Hello Paulus
First of all thank you for your nice and simple system. Re your above post #200 your signal candle was the long one (close below bottom k line) .Why did not take the candle before that as your signal bar although it was under k and both stock were under 20& 30 ?
regards

Look at the rules under "Signal Long" #4....ya wait for an uptick of the normal stoch at the same time price closes up.
  • #205
  • May 24, 2008 8:50am May 24, 2008 8:50am
Hi Tj

Yes must be frustrating ..thats one reason in Futures trading I used Ninja trader

If you use a separate data feed in VT trader you could possibly use Ninja its a great programme and easy to use

Paulus
  • #206
  • May 24, 2008 8:56am May 24, 2008 8:56am
Harar

Hi

We have to have a tick up on the top stoch as thats the faster of the 2 with an up bar..the lower stock 90% of the time follows suite but as long as its below its 30line im happy to carry on with the trade

Its a traffic light effect... we need 4 green lights

green light - price closes below bottom K line
green light - fast ( top ) stoch below 20
green light - stoch Di below 30
green light - top stoch ticks up with price

I get the ticket up with 10 -20 secs to go and as soon as i see we are ending the bar I click 'place'

Then go to modify ticket and adjust tp and stop to exact pips

Hope that makes sense

cheers
paul
  • #207
  • May 24, 2008 9:17am May 24, 2008 9:17am
I must stress though to those that scan this great forum..you will have losing trades on this method.

I dont know of any one any where who doesn't have losing trades

And in all the statistics on any system there will be lurking the 6 losers on the trot the big losing days..

On the flip side the stats are also in there for the 6 winners in a row and the really big winning day.

Please please no matter what system you are using don't bin it because you have a bad day look at it and try to find out what went wrong.

This may not be the full and final version of the K system I dont know one thing I do know the the less we expose ourselves to the market the better for our risk... get your 20 or 30 or what ever fig you want to put on it and close down for the day.

Look at it this way you start at 8am the markets great the moves are excellent 3 trades and 3 x 10 pips.. you stop at 30..You exposure has stopped you no longer risk the losing runs the quiter times.

If Im on 27 pips for the day and my next signal moves 3 pips I close it and bank the 30 for my money managment

If I posted a system here that made a 10 pip loss every day on a back test for the last 365 days it wouldn't get 1 post and no interest..but If I posted that it ends up with a 10 pip loss but at some time during the days on each of the last 365 days it was up by 40pips at some time it would get alot of interest ..

I always look at what its done during the session rather than whats its done at the end of the day

Im not preaching just letting you know how my mind works

I done allot of research into this when i traded Dax futures I worked out hope much per hour i was making if i stopped at a certain points value each day...It showed back then I would earn more per hour stopping at a certain value than if I traded the whole session.

Rather than post the link I have copied the actual post dated 25-1-2003 from a BB called Technical Traders of which Im a moderator

End of week totals week 1
Dax = £17 per point
Scan A
Stopping at +3 = 140points in 24.5 hours of trading = 5.7 points per hour
All day = 160 points in 55 hours of trading = 2.9 points per hour
Strike rate up to +3 = 63%
Scan B
Stopping at +3 = 140points in 21.5 hours of trading = 6.5 points per hour
All day = 260 points in 55 hours trading = 4.7 points per hour
Strike rate up to +3= 62%

If time is off an issue and the thought of sitting in front of the pc for 11 hours is daunting then the above shows that to stop at +3 winners over losers is the way to go.
Look how low the points per hour dropped to when trading the whole session.Agreed more money would of been made if you traded the whole sesion,but at a far slower rate.One of my aims I hope to achieve with my trading apart from financial independance and security for my children is the freeing up of far more leisure time.I do not intend to give up the day job just to sit in front of a PC screen 11 hours a day.

Both scans avergaged around the same time for +3 wins 21-23 hours per week.

Putting this into financial gains(+3)
Scan A and Scan B achieved the same 140 points or £2,380 not inc costs for 1 contract in 23 hours max for last week.
Costs were as follows (+3)
Scan A 41 trades = $230 around £139
Scan B 56 trades = $313 around £189

Ok its only 1 week but the result make my pursuit of this seemingly worth while.
Will keep you up to date with any developments
Paulus
  • #208
  • May 24, 2008 4:06pm May 24, 2008 4:06pm
Paulus, I agree 100%. One problem for me now is that I work full-time during the day here (8:00 to 17:00 ET), though I am usually able to loosely monitor a trading system such as yours. I'm thinking an EA for your method would be ideal. I just started building EAs about a month ago, but I might be willing to give it a try.

Scott

Quoting Paulus
I do not intend to give up the day job just to sit in front of a PC screen 11 hours a day.
Prices are never too high to begin buying or too low to begin selling.
  • #209
  • May 24, 2008 5:17pm May 24, 2008 5:17pm
Thanks Poocher/Paulus for your replies. It clarifies every thing
Regards
  • #210
  • May 24, 2008 5:25pm May 24, 2008 5:25pm
For getting an entry signal the conditions 2 (stoch Di below 30) and 3 (Stoch normal below 20) must be true when the price closes below bottom K line (1) or also must still be true after getting the first bar up?


In the manual backtest done for this week, could you please confirm that you considered the spread for calculating result of your loosing trades...I guess so, but just want to confirm it...

Did you check whether the system could also be used on other currencies with same settings and same kind of success?

Thank for sharing this nice system....
  • #211
  • May 24, 2008 5:29pm May 24, 2008 5:29pm
First ,thanks Paulus for sharing this system and time with us! Could someone post the correct keltner band indicator? Thanks!
  • #212
  • May 24, 2008 5:38pm May 24, 2008 5:38pm
Sure here u go set to length 10 and 1 on Times atr in the input tab

cheers

Paulus
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 _My Keltner Channel.mq4   3 KB | 551 downloads
  • #213
  • May 24, 2008 5:44pm May 24, 2008 5:44pm
THF

Any help you can give will be gratefully appreciated .. I know nowt about writing EA's but will be looking into it my self when i get back off my hols

Emeric33

yes spread was taken into account on the results .. not looked at other currencies picked this one due to the 2 pip spread..spent most of the week looking for a few fixes I had to do to convert the system from my US Futures trading to Forex

Its ooking pretty sound now

paulus
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 _My Keltner Channel.mq4   3 KB | 583 downloads
File Type: mq4 StochasticDiNapoli_v1[1].mq4   3 KB | 577 downloads
File Type: tpl kelt system.tpl   2 KB | 622 downloads
  • #214
  • May 24, 2008 6:08pm May 24, 2008 6:08pm
Thanks Paulus
  • #215
  • May 25, 2008 3:39pm May 25, 2008 3:39pm
Hi, Paulus. A couple questions when you get a chance...

1) Regarding your #4 rule for going long (stoch normal ticks up at the same time as an up bar), does it matter if that stoch rises above 20 when it ticks up on this bar? Is that still a valid signal?

2) When I attached the DiNapoli stochs, I got two lines. Should I hide one of those, and if so, which one?

Many thanks...

Scott
Prices are never too high to begin buying or too low to begin selling.
  • #216
  • May 25, 2008 5:33pm May 25, 2008 5:33pm
still a valid signal Scott we just need it under 20 to tell us its over sold..what it does when it ticks up doesn't matter as long as it ticks up with an up bar

On the Di stoch ..under colors select none for 1 white for 0

or load the template i posted earlier

cheers

Paulus

ps I'm away all next week in Greek islands
  • #217
  • May 25, 2008 5:48pm May 25, 2008 5:48pm
Quoting Paulus
still a valid signal Scott we just need it under 20 to tell us its over sold..what it does when it ticks up doesn't matter as long as it ticks up with an up bar

On the Di stoch ..under colors select none for 1 white for 0

or load the template i posted earlier

cheers

Paulus

ps I'm away all next week in Greek islands
Thanks for your "K"system...

Have a great trip!!!
  • #218
  • May 25, 2008 9:23pm May 25, 2008 9:23pm
Thanks for the clarification, Paulus.

Have a great trip. I guess the rest of us will use this time to practice your method...

Scott

Quoting Paulus
still a valid signal Scott we just need it under 20 to tell us its over sold..what it does when it ticks up doesn't matter as long as it ticks up with an up bar

On the Di stoch ..under colors select none for 1 white for 0

or load the template i posted earlier

cheers

Paulus

ps I'm away all next week in Greek islands
Prices are never too high to begin buying or too low to begin selling.
  • #219
  • May 26, 2008 10:19am May 26, 2008 10:19am
A couple more questions for Paulus (if he is still around) or anyone else that might know...

1) Can there be any dojis between the signal bar and the entry bar and the signal still be valid? I am assuming not.

2) As far as a take profit, I know it was recently set at 10 pips. What about if the opposite band is hit? Is that also a take profit level? I just took a trade today where much of the movement was on the entry candle (14:45 GMT) and so the trade had only moved 4 pips (+2 profit) by the time it hit the opposite band. So I closed it out for a 2-pip win. Turns out it only had maybe one more pip available before turning in the other direction, so it was the right move.

Scott
Prices are never too high to begin buying or too low to begin selling.
  • #220
  • May 27, 2008 4:55am May 27, 2008 4:55am
Anyone else get a signal at 10.30am GMT with entry at 10.35am GMT this morning?
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