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James16 Group vs Van Tharp

  • Poll

  • Which training do you prefer
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  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 20, 2008 8:33am Mar 20, 2008 8:33am
Hello all


I would like to know if anyway can give a non biased review of James16 group vs Van tharp's training course (peak performance or developing a trading system course).

My problem is managing my trade. I cannot follow it effectively. I noticed I usually breakeven or come with little profits. I think it's fear of losing my capital vs wanting to make most of out of the trade is very conflicting in my case.

I like James16 because it offers you a free lifetime access after a year. This gives me the opportunity to develop my skills with time with help on the side. But I also like van tharp's course because honestly, he is one of the few that focuses on the reality of exits rather than setups that most people focus on. That to me makes a lot of sense since you make money on how you exit.

Would appreciate if someone would give me their honest opinions on this.
  • #2
  • Mar 20, 2008 9:07am Mar 20, 2008 9:07am
seems u had answered your question by urself

James16 for finding the potential setup and trigger point

Van Tharp for finding the exit point

Although I haven't join the Jame's PF, but his public thread is very impressive.

p.s I can't log into James16's website, I want to attend his course.
  • #3
  • Mar 20, 2008 9:12am Mar 20, 2008 9:12am
Quoting hilmy83
Hello all


I would like to know if anyway can give a non biased review of James16 group vs Van tharp's training course ...
Would appreciate if someone would give me their honest opinions on this.
My opinion would be probably biased due to my signature, but regardless it is sincere. I have not taken V.T. course but glanced at my friend’s material from the course. (My friend took almost every trading course possible and we were joking the other day about money he wasted before becoming successful by going back to basic, simple stuff).

I’m a big fan of Van Tharp and his work; however I find it way to pricey. Not that I can’t afford it, but it is obvious to me that his work is one, big marketing machine geared towards making mucho money from the sales. It almost seems that he gave up making money from trading long time ago and become an author. It’s much easier to write/talk about trading and potential profit than actually being successful trader.
J16 is a real, accomplished trader and his techniques/methodologies work in EVERY market, not only in Eur/US…. lol (hint, hint).

Van Tharp is good mathematician and math is also my hobby, and I enjoyed his computations, rules, etc… Everything is very nice but impractical imho…. On the other hand J16 takes pride in his work and enjoys when people learn his material and become successful traders. He believes in giving to people instead of taking away from them. He is just an email away when you need him.

Yes, I am free subscriber for over a year now and still believe that decision to join j16 was worth every penny and more. What he offers is dirt cheap and what’s more important – EFFECTIVE, comparing to material available on the net for big $$$. But going back to topic…

What else can I say… If I compare Van Tharp’s work to J16 it’s like comparing climbing Himalayan Mountains to canoeing down the river…. Enough said.


This is my opinion. Cheers
  • #4
  • Mar 20, 2008 9:28am Mar 20, 2008 9:28am
Quoting raczekfx
My opinion would be probably biased due to my signature, but regardless it is sincere. I have not taken V.T. course but glanced at my friend’s material from the course. (My friend took almost every trading course possible and we were joking the other day about money he wasted before becoming successful by going back to basic, simple stuff).

I’m a big fan of Van Tharp and his work; however I find it way to pricey. Not that I can’t afford it, but it is obvious to me that his work is one, big marketing machine geared towards making mucho money from the sales. It almost seems that he gave up making money from trading long time ago and become an author. It’s much easier to write/talk about trading and potential profit than actually being successful trader.
J16 is a real, accomplished trader and his techniques/methodologies work in EVERY market, not only in Eur/US…. lol (hint, hint).

Van Tharp is good mathematician and math is also my hobby, and I enjoyed his computations, rules, etc… Everything is very nice but impractical imho…. On the other hand J16 takes pride in his work and enjoys when people learn his material and become successful traders. He believes in giving to people instead of taking away from them. He is just an email away when you need him.

Yes, I am free subscriber for over a year now and still believe that decision to join j16 was worth every penny and more. What he offers is dirt cheap and what’s more important – EFFECTIVE, comparing to material available on the net for big $$$. But going back to topic…

What else can I say… If I compare Van Tharp’s work to J16 it’s like comparing climbing Himalayan Mountains to canoeing down the river…. Enough said.


This is my opinion. Cheers
very well said, although my opinion is'nt all that worth but i would still vote for J16! that guy is more then just a human...seriosuly!!!!
I believe . . .
  • #5
  • Mar 20, 2008 10:09am Mar 20, 2008 10:09am
seems like Jame16 is getting a good review. I have to admit, I rather take advice from a trader than an author. But I would love to hear from others who actually have taken any of Van Tharps' course. Van Tharp from what I read have worked with top traders/investors and he's putting things that worked for them for you to desing things on your own.
  • #6
  • Mar 20, 2008 9:22pm Mar 20, 2008 9:22pm
My vote is biased for James16. One thing that is nice is that we do have other facilitators in the group that share their particular "expertice" in their own sections. I can only imagine what the group will be like in 20 years...
  • #7
  • Mar 20, 2008 9:31pm Mar 20, 2008 9:31pm
I have to throw in a vote for J16 as well.....

I know you asked about Van Tharpe, but to be honest, I gather it's pricey....and for what?

I am going to take a wild guess that what you get from J16 is hands down a much better investment. Not only do you have instructors to teach, but other members are always willing to help.

It's funny that you mention exits, as this is something I am currently working on. I think I have finally found what I am looking for. One of the senior members and I talked on the phone to work through this one. That one phone call paid for this last month's fee by itself, hands down.

The Psych stuff is really, really, good. (Got me to quit smoking after 22 years.)

The people there are all rooting you on, and you can tell. Jim is working on some big things. Currently he does chat sessions with screen captures to show you what he looks for. He has mentioned having a "trading room", although the details are really, really, early.

One other thing about J16 - You can always try it for one month, and if it doesn't work out....then you only spent $129. That's not much to risk.

The J16 chart thread is only about 5% of what you get in the forum. I cannot tell you how it has changed my trading, and life for that matter. Jim will never really know what he has done for me, as well as so many others.

My results don't lie.

First two weeks I was down a total of 1%.

Next three months I was up 26%.

I also have grown enough to learn that I needed to demo a complete system......exits were getting me. This is where I am at now. I now treat this as a business, and don't have an issue not trading "for real" at the moment, knowing that I am improving what has already been a huge jump in results.

I learned that there is more to trading than profit. Profit is how we measure the game. I had to learn that I needed to be comfortable trading. Hence going back to demo when I was up so much. I'm happy with that gain for the year if it takes me that long.....not that it will.....

Best money in Forex I have ever spent, hands down. I could never say enough about Jim, he's a great man, and it shows by the actions of the members he attracts.

Give us a shot.
  • #8
  • Mar 20, 2008 10:04pm Mar 20, 2008 10:04pm
Well... J16 is in my sig.... in my outlook calendar for the chats... and in my daily routine on my trading style. I started trading a little while back... lost a bunch... took a break and then licked my wounds to get back in the charts. I looked around, followed other systems on FF and other places including Van. After doing deeper review of others I knew to be members, I could tell I wanted what they had. I have been a member now for over 5 months now and had wished I joined along time ago.

Yes... the Psych stuff has been a HUGE help for me. Only till I read the topics... and read them again did I truely understand why I losing before.... big help.

Though I have only needed to personally contact Jim once... I was amazed by the quick reply. In fact that night he pulled me out of another chat to come to his,as what he was covering would help with some of the question in my email.
  • #9
  • Mar 21, 2008 5:31am Mar 21, 2008 5:31am
Hi hilmy83,

I'm in the J16Group since last september. I won't vote on the poll because I didn't follow any of VT's courses. All I can say is that I'm really happy to be in that group. Both instructors and long time members are really helpfull, they won't do the work for you but they will teach you how to reach your goals. That's a great community.

About the content, from psychology to any aspect of the system you'll build, Jim's group covers all the needed topics to become a successful trader. And for exits, Mike (mbqb11) is the instructor who gives some answers on how to manage a trade. It's covered and discussed in many chats.

It would be great if we could get some feedback from VT's students
  • #10
  • Mar 21, 2008 6:01am Mar 21, 2008 6:01am
Hey hilmy83!
Hope you're doing well mate!

I just wanted to add my 2p if I may.

Personally, I think this is like comparing apples to oranges, for lack of a better expression.

I like 'em both, for different things I learned/am learning from both.

Take what you can or want from both of 'em and apply it as you see fit.

I for one, cannot vote and choose one over the other.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #11
  • Mar 25, 2008 10:42pm Mar 25, 2008 10:42pm
I have done both, so this comes from my own experience. I have asked this same questions you are - after I spent the money on each! Her is my take on things.

I have been on J16 for a year and counting and, I have the Peak Perf course from Van Tharp for about 7 months. Both have been stellar investments. I also have the system course - you will not need it - in my opinion, but some still prefer (why??) an indicator/math approach, so it may suite you. Skip it for now.

J16 - will give you everything you need for a strong 'system'. Trust me, this stuff flat out works and ANYONE can do it. It may take some time, but suddenly the light will go on. I am embarrassed at how dirt simple it all is. The hardest part is learning to not trade when the 'A' trades ain't there. Exits are covered in plain detail. Frankly, they can be pretty darn obvious via Jim's stuff. Mike has a thread dedicated to exits that is wildly great. Tharp's system and exit help won't trump J16.

If you already work full time, then you'll really love Jim's suggested approach to trade on the longer timeframes of weekly and daily only - until you get darn good. That is all I do, and when I can quit my day job, I do NOT plan on trading shorter timeframes. I see no need. And I'd rather do other things. Trade to live, that is my motto.

Van Tharp - best psychological work in the business (in my unprofessional opinion). He is a professional traders coach and darn good at it. I have found his peak performance course to be very strong. I heartily recommend it - if you need it - and based on failure rates of traders, most do. Van's Peak Performance course is top flight. That is the one you really want. Again, skip the system course. You'll likely not need it.

Suggestion - Try J16 first for at least 6 months. Fiji has a nice section on psychology and is very generous with his help. There are great videos and examples - and the help of the senior members is just priceless. Spending at least six months learning and asking questions will get you to the point of understanding two things you must understand -

  1. one: is trading really for you (some other business may be better) and,
  2. two: will you really understand that the real challenge in trading is not the market, but yourself, and hence enable yourself to make the leap to success?

Buy the Peak Performance course after you have laid a foundation in J16 - and before you trade live.

Good luck - and I hope to see you in the J16 site.

I'm pretty much done with all this ...
  • #12
  • Mar 26, 2008 12:31am Mar 26, 2008 12:31am
Hi Hilmy,

I'm probably one of the few people on this forum who has a very long memory which is why I have never read James' stuff.

However, I did do Van Tharp's courses. I did the Peak Performance course and the Developing a Winning Investing/Trading System. I also took a 3 day seminar with him when I was interested in Stocks back in 2002.

As someone mentioned already, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Even though I haven't read James' stuff, I've gleaned a pretty good idea about it from these forums.

The Peak Performance course is great and there isn't anything else out there that comes close to it. But it's all about getting into your head and finding out what makes you tick, what's important to you, and if you really want to do this.

The System course is ok for a beginner, but you can find that stuff for cheap or free. It was done with one of those really great technicians whose name escapes me, but we all know him. If you can find it cheap on ebay or something, then it's worth it. Btw, I got both of the courses off ebay from some guy who was an official reseller for VT. I got both of them for half of what VT was charging on his website and this was 6 years ago. There's probably some even cheaper out there.

I could have done without the Stock course. It was interesting and fun and I met some great people including the first guy to do VT's SuperTrader program, but I changed to FX two months later and never did stocks again. It did give me an excuse to go to the US though and I haven't been back since. Maybe I should take another seminar.

Why not do both if you can afford it.
  • #13
  • Edited 1:51pm Mar 26, 2008 11:40am | Edited 1:51pm
i was just made aware of this and frankly i thought to myself it would be inapropriate for me to say anything but i couldnt resist.

there has not been one day in the last three years since i stumbled accross forex factory that i have not been completly flabbergasted and humbled by the positive comments and success of those that follow my silly simple stuff.

i have no doubts that there are many many people that have taken my simple approaches and used them with a far bigger brain than i have to accomplish far more than i ever have or ever will.

this is the simple little nugget of gold buried in everything i teach.

you can take it and add it to something else that works for you and finally find some success...or you can take it by itself and with some practice do the same thing.

this business is a long road of finding fools gold but plodding on and picking up another one hopefully to find it is real.

when you have bent over a thousand times only to find nothing you get tired.

ive often wondered why people never get mad at me or send me nasty emails.

maybe its because they can sense im like them. ive been tired and beat down also many times. you simply cant hide that if youve been thru it.

whatever the reason im thankful and i appreciate all of you.... members or not.

jim
  • #14
  • Apr 11, 2008 4:04pm Apr 11, 2008 4:04pm
Quoting james16
i was just made aware of this and frankly i thought to myself it would be inapropriate for me to say anything but i couldnt resist.

there has not been one day in the last three years since i stumbled accross forex factory that i have not been completly flabbergasted and humbled by the positive comments and success of those that follow my silly simple stuff.

i have no doubts that there are many many people that have taken my simple approaches and used them with a far bigger brain than i have to accomplish far more than i ever have or ever will.

this is the simple little nugget of gold buried in everything i teach.

you can take it and add it to something else that works for you and finally find some success...or you can take it by itself and with some practice do the same thing.

this business is a long road of finding fools gold but plodding on and picking up another one hopefully to find it is real.

when you have bent over a thousand times only to find nothing you get tired.

ive often wondered why people never get mad at me or send me nasty emails.

maybe its because they can sense im like them. ive been tired and beat down also many times. you simply cant hide that if youve been thru it.

whatever the reason im thankful and i appreciate all of you.... members or not.

jim

Hi Jim,

Thankyou for all of the information that you post on this site.

I am a complete beginner to trading (I have not booked any trades of my own). I work for an investment bank with traders and I understand the risks involved in trading and as such I would like to learn from a mentor so as not to make all of the same painful mistakes (some will obviously be necessary). I have Van Tharp's Peak Performance Course which I luckily got exceptionally cheap. I am happy to spend as much time as it takes to develop as a trader for the opportunity to eventually be able to spend most of my time with my wife and family (I do not need or wish to be rich, just happy with those that I love). I have read your original thread and can gather a basic understanding of charting but find it difficult to put into perspective without a biger picture view. Is the member's area on your site suitable for complete beginners or should I stick to Van's course to start?
  • #15
  • Apr 12, 2008 8:37am Apr 12, 2008 8:37am
Quoting diagram-p
Hi Jim,

Thankyou for all of the information that you post on this site.

I am a complete beginner to trading (I have not booked any trades of my own). I work for an investment bank with traders and I understand the risks involved in trading and as such I would like to learn from a mentor so as not to make all of the same painful mistakes (some will obviously be necessary). I have Van Tharp's Peak Performance Course which I luckily got exceptionally cheap. I am happy to spend as much time as it takes to develop as a trader for the opportunity to eventually be able to spend most of my time with my wife and family (I do not need or wish to be rich, just happy with those that I love). I have read your original thread and can gather a basic understanding of charting but find it difficult to put into perspective without a biger picture view. Is the member's area on your site suitable for complete beginners or should I stick to Van's course to start?

Let me answer this: It starts out pretty basic on some levels. I feel that the newbie can get a good education as well.

When I started, I told myself I would give this guy three months to show me a few tricks. It has been 6, and I don't ever think about leaving. The price is billed monthly, so worse case scenario, you would be out 129 bucks. (cheap really, because you will find that there are going to be dozens of "instructors" there.)

I recently spent quite a bit of time with two new traders about some of the very basic questions about Price Action. (Just happened to bump into them in the chat room.) You will find that it is common for that to happen. We all tend to look after one another there.

In fact, it can be said the type of people you attract says a lot about the person. Well, I have never found a more supportive group of people online in my life. All there really do want you to succeed. This to me says the most about James.

As for Tharpe, I have heard many good things about him. However, you will find what Jim teaches works well on top of other systems. (As in, combined.)

Your first month is a steal. His videos alone are worth the cost of admission.

When and if you join, shoot me a private message....I'll help all that I can. When I joined there was someone that helped me, so I try to "pass it along".

You will find that the norm, not the exception.

Clockwork
  • #16
  • May 22, 2008 5:43pm May 22, 2008 5:43pm
I wanted to post here with some of my thoughts. I believe this is my first post on this forum, and I have barely lurked for a little while.

I haven't paid for Van Tharp's stuff, but I am reading his book "Trade Your Way to financial freedom," and I have no complaints.

I began trading forex 2-3 years ago for about a year and blew out several times. I tried moving average crosses, then tried my dealers recs, then tried to learn fib trading from a guy on moneytec that blew me off. Then I just quit. I am sparing you the emotional journey of being a grown man brought to tears (literally) from the pain of losing, made worse by the knowledge that someone else was winning consistently. I stopped for a year basically because I gave up hope out of discouragement. Somehow I came back to it by the unfolding of life and circumstances, re-read the VWB stuff and thought I was going to succeed (much like I had before with all the other systems I hopped and put faith in).

It was the VWB stuff that somehow brought me to FF, and then the now infamous J16 thread here. I didn't know if the group was still going, as that thread was quite old, but I looked into it and didn't do much deliberation before joining. I was at a point where I had to stop doubting opportunities as they appeared before me. I watched my attitude of, "that's a scam," "that won't work," etc. and so on. I got open to the idea that opportunity was everywhere in this world, and who am I to say no to them. I could go on about this forever, but I will say that something changed for me. An opportunity that you say no to is far worse than one you say yes to if it doesn't work out. I had nothing to lose by trying. This was important.

I had a gut feeling that this cat was sincere about his desire to help new traders, and I had nothing to lose by finding out. I ain't gonna say more about it, except that the cost of being a subscriber for a year will be paid for easily, even if you trade a tiny micro account.

Anyway, I have an interest in helping a trader who is in real pain, struggling, suffering. It would give me the greatest pleasure to see your life turn around. I will give a one year scholarship to the J16 group to the respondent who can qualify with their sob story. I am serious. No catch other than you gotta stay in touch with me over the course of your time in the group.

Nuff said.

PM me and that's it.
  • #17
  • May 22, 2008 6:05pm May 22, 2008 6:05pm
Very nice thing of you to do Pip Seeker.
  • #18
  • May 22, 2008 6:30pm May 22, 2008 6:30pm
WOW!!!

dont know what else to say.

jim

Quoting Pip Seeker
I wanted to post here with some of my thoughts. I believe this is my first post on this forum, and I have barely lurked for a little while.

I haven't paid for Van Tharp's stuff, but I am reading his book "Trade Your Way to financial freedom," and I have no complaints.

I began trading forex 2-3 years ago for about a year and blew out several times. I tried moving average crosses, then tried my dealers recs, then tried to learn fib trading from a guy on moneytec that blew me off. Then I just quit. I am sparing you the emotional journey of being a grown man brought to tears (literally) from the pain of losing, made worse by the knowledge that someone else was winning consistently. I stopped for a year basically because I gave up hope out of discouragement. Somehow I came back to it by the unfolding of life and circumstances, re-read the VWB stuff and thought I was going to succeed (much like I had before with all the other systems I hopped and put faith in).

It was the VWB stuff that somehow brought me to FF, and then the now infamous J16 thread here. I didn't know if the group was still going, as that thread was quite old, but I looked into it and didn't do much deliberation before joining. I was at a point where I had to stop doubting opportunities as they appeared before me. I watched my attitude of, "that's a scam," "that won't work," etc. and so on. I got open to the idea that opportunity was everywhere in this world, and who am I to say no to them. I could go on about this forever, but I will say that something changed for me. An opportunity that you say no to is far worse than one you say yes to if it doesn't work out. I had nothing to lose by trying. This was important.

I had a gut feeling that this cat was sincere about his desire to help new traders, and I had nothing to lose by finding out. I ain't gonna say more about it, except that the cost of being a subscriber for a year will be paid for easily, even if you trade a tiny micro account.

Anyway, I have an interest in helping a trader who is in real pain, struggling, suffering. It would give me the greatest pleasure to see your life turn around. I will give a one year scholarship to the J16 group to the respondent who can qualify with their sob story. I am serious. No catch other than you gotta stay in touch with me over the course of your time in the group.

Nuff said.

PM me and that's it.
  • #19
  • May 22, 2008 10:36pm May 22, 2008 10:36pm
Hi, Mr. Seeker.

My wife of 15 years left me for a woman. We had three kids together. Kyle is our oldest, 6, and slow. Klem we had on purpose. He's 5 but can't seem to get the hang of walking yet. Kletus is the baby of the family. She's real cute but has a skin condition that makes her look like the mailman. I got full custody of all three.

My job at the BubbleMonkey Carwash barely made ends meet and, since the reservoir dried up because of global warming, BubbleMonkey closed shop.

Blue, my dog, came down with some kind of weird canine venereal infection. I couldn't afford to have him put down proper so I had to shoot him myself. The effect on the kids will probably last the rest of their lives.

I'm not asking for any kind of charity but, with gas at near $4 a gallon, I can't afford broadband. I'm trading my fifth nano account with BigBoyzFX. They say fear and desperation aren't conducive to good trading and I figure it must be true because I blew my first four accounts because I got scared. BigBoyz are real good and don't laugh at me because I'm on dialup.

I've learned a lot from the J16 public thread here on FF. PA rules! If their private forum wasn't so expensive I'd join up but the pickup needs a transmission rebuild and physical therapy for Klem is more important than anything in the whole world except groceries.

I told the kids about you and now they keep asking me when Uncle Pip Seeker is going to come visit, lol. I just don't have the heart to explain he's not real like Santa or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. Bless their hearts, they tell me about their scary dreams. Drawdowns and margin calls and stuff babies their age shouldn't have to worry about.

>sigh< Anyway, thanks for your consideration.

GL and GT!
  • #20
  • Jun 7, 2008 8:08am Jun 7, 2008 8:08am
Learn pinbars, make money, do what you want in life.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
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