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Trading...Yeah Right...

  • #21
  • May 6, 2008 3:06pm May 6, 2008 3:06pm
Lol if Picaso told you that you have to use a brush and paint to paint pictures. Would you be as good as him just by copying what he does?
I can't understand why people think they can buy success.
  • #22
  • May 6, 2008 5:46pm May 6, 2008 5:46pm
Eventhough i myself am relatively new to trading, going on about 9 months now, the one thing i have figured out is that there is NO perfect system.

I think myself lucky i stumbled onto a strat, and figured now i've got everything i need, let the dollars roll in!!

But after a month or so, i was like hmm why isnt this working. Then another month goes by, hmm still not working finally 6 months pass and while im not losing any money i wasn't really earning any either.

Then something else happened, when the particular indicators i used lined up and tell me to take a trade, i was like hmm, this is simular to a previous set-up, i'm not going to take it and visa versa, sometimes i'll say when the stars align, i know it can't be wrong (few and far between sadly).

Hey what do ya know, i started making some money.

So having a system is great, but you still need to have some disgression as to when to use it and that is only gained by experience, trail and error.. etc..etc

I personally found it took me 6 months of sticking to my strategy(mutated slightly to fit me), learning when to trust it or not (still on-going) so in my view trading is half the strategy and the other half experience
  • #23
  • May 6, 2008 7:10pm May 6, 2008 7:10pm
Quote
I can't understand why people think they can buy success.

Nobody with a profitable EA is going to sell it, and nobody in an unstructured environment could ever stand to let a black box system drawdown. The first time the machine goes neg for a few weeks the trader's going to panic and screw it all up... and rightfully so, he/she has no way of knowing if it's capable of dealing with all of that.

The only people that have profitable trading machines are those that either work at a large firm or those private programmers that have written one themselves.
  • #24
  • May 6, 2008 10:24pm May 6, 2008 10:24pm
1) There is no such thing as the HOLY GRAIL. The only thing that comes even minutely close to that is YOU. Invest in yourself (that is your knowledge). Don't buy a system unless you plan to dissect it and learn exactly how it was built. Rabid is right, anyone selling a system is more than likely not making enough money themselves in forex.

2) Treat this game as a business. Assets (revenue) and Liabilities (expenses). No business on this planet is entirely asset based. You'd be working purely for the tax man if there was.

3) Listen to Jacko, two lines are all you'll ever need.

4) Trade a demo account to learn the ropes of the platform and get the gist of one strategy (I suggest support/resistance).

5) Open a live account with a couple hundred bucks (OANDA is popular) and say goodbye to the money you put in it.

6) Trade live to feel what it's really like (emotionally). Win or lose, who cares.

7) Go back to the demo and fine tune what you have learnt from the live experience. Stay with it until you profit more than you lose. Set a goal, i.e. profit 20 pips per day or 100 per week. Don't go back live until you are consistently achieving this goal.

8) Go back live with a larger start-up capital - depends on your financial situation on how much. Just use minimal leverage either way.

9) Build on your goals from there. Making a million bucks a year is never gonna happen straight away. It's a nice end goal yes, but set workable goals to build up to the primary goal. If making a squillion with forex was really that easy, would there be such a thing as poverty?
  • #25
  • May 7, 2008 10:25am May 7, 2008 10:25am
NoBread -

Instead of bashing you like Apoc did, I am going to actually contribute something.

I was at the same point once, and I found it was the questions I started to ask myself then that changed everything for me.

I am going to say that you probably get emotional about trades, and that is probably getting you in the end. So ask this question first:

"When I lose, what bothers me?" I am not talking about the moronic answer "Losing money", I am thinking a little deeper here.

It's being wrong more than likely. Because if you are using proper Money Management, you aren't losing much on any one particular trade. If you risk 1%, it's like losing a dollar when you have 100.....think about that. Would that piss you off in real life? Probably not. So it's not the money....it's the need to be right. (This was the case with me at least.)

Also, the guys here are right.....you can't buy a system. Even if I could sell you a great one, you really should learn what makes it great. I cannot understand why people are alright with not knowing how their money works for or against them. However.....will spend weeks learning baseball stats. (an example.)

I also suspect you are in 15 minute chart land. As a beginner, start out higher time frames, like the daily. Yes....that means playing at a dime a pip sometimes, but it's a hell of a lot less stressful.

Besides.....did you get into Forex to stare at computer screens? I know I didn't. When I remembered that....it became less of a big deal. Place a trade, go on about life.

I look forward to the day you post you have had your first profitable month!

Clockwork
  • #26
  • May 7, 2008 4:50pm May 7, 2008 4:50pm
Quoting clockwork71
"When I lose, what bothers me?" I am not talking about the moronic answer "Losing money", I am thinking a little deeper here.

It's being wrong more than likely. Clockwork
OK, now think a whole lot deeper!

Think about the dream. The wealth. Having the kind of house that I want, having the kind of cars I want, the kind of woman I want... the FREEDOM I want!

It all depends on successful trading. A losing day is one more day away from it.... (pressure, anyone?)

No, it's not the 1% today, or the 1% yesterday, it's the 1000% I should have had at the end of this year that I'm not succeeding in achieving.
  • #27
  • May 7, 2008 6:23pm May 7, 2008 6:23pm
Quoting Rabid
Laff, doesn't mean it isn't true. Just means that any given system may work for one person and not another.

That's it fellows....

Yes, it is a cliche

Yes, it is true

Yes, it is so ignored...

The trader makes the system, not the contrary.

PS: This can be helpful....
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #28
  • May 7, 2008 10:06pm May 7, 2008 10:06pm
Quoting blueruby
OK, now think a whole lot deeper!

Think about the dream. The wealth. Having the kind of house that I want, having the kind of cars I want, the kind of woman I want... the FREEDOM I want!

It all depends on successful trading. A losing day is one more day away from it.... (pressure, anyone?)

No, it's not the 1% today, or the 1% yesterday, it's the 1000% I should have had at the end of this year that I'm not succeeding in achieving.
Ok, fair enough.....but you are missing the point here.

Take 4%/month for 10 years. Start with 500 USD, it turns into 59,000.
Starting with 10,000, it's something like 1.2 million.

Just a little perspective.....

I would submit that focusing on the reward, and not the risk......is a big part of the 95% crowds psychology.

I'm not here to stare at the computer. I have a life. I would suggest that we all need to keep this in mind. You and I both know there are plenty of traders that are absorbed in this game, for something like 18 hours a day. What a waste.

Forex is adding value to my life. It's not my life, or a measure of my worth.

And by the way......you need money for a woman? Isn't that illegal? ;-)


Clockwork
  • #29
  • May 8, 2008 1:57am May 8, 2008 1:57am
Quote
I would submit that focusing on the reward, and not the risk......is a big part of the 95% crowds psychology.

I have to absolutely agree. Fantasies don't prepare you for loss, they just add to the emotional rollercoaster.

You are a guy who trades for a living, not a trader that occasionally enjoys life.

Quote
And by the way......you need money for a woman? Isn't that illegal? ;-)

Depends on where you live doesn't it?
  • #30
  • May 8, 2008 4:46am May 8, 2008 4:46am
If say 10% is a good monthly return for you just go short USD/CNY and the like. Why work hard just for that ?
On the path to Enrichment.
  • #31
  • May 8, 2008 4:48am May 8, 2008 4:48am
Quoting clockwork71
I'm not here to stare at the computer. I have a life. I would suggest that we all need to keep this in mind. You and I both know there are plenty of traders that are absorbed in this game, for something like 18 hours a day. What a waste.

Forex is adding value to my life. It's not my life, or a measure of my worth.

And by the way......you need money for a woman? Isn't that illegal? ;-)


Clockwork
Yeah, what with that BS ? Get a life, money won't fix it for you, it can only improve it more.
On the path to Enrichment.
  • #32
  • May 8, 2008 4:59am May 8, 2008 4:59am
I think as far as Apoc: is concerned I think he was not bashing me as much as asking if i got what it takes to be a real trader. Then again maybe i am wrong? I do not trade off smaller time frames (anymore) learned the hard way. Also i have blown 2 live accounts so far, 3rd still alive (stopped trading
Gbp/Jpy < killer) So i am getting there ever so slowly. And thanks to all that responded.
  • #33
  • May 8, 2008 6:13am May 8, 2008 6:13am
Quoting NoBread
I think as far as Apoc: is concerned I think he was not bashing me as much as asking if i got what it takes to be a real trader. Then again maybe i am wrong? I do not trade off smaller time frames (anymore) learned the hard way. Also i have blown 2 live accounts so far, 3rd still alive (stopped trading
Gbp/Jpy < killer) So i am getting there ever so slowly. And thanks to all that responded.
NoBread,

sure i was harsh in my reply but mate u needed the wake up call. this game is a tough one and it takes years to master it. still then u m=never really master it cuz u never stop learning. I have been were u are don't worry about that. i have blown 3 accounts lost my mind had all the massive lows and some great highs. being like that is wrong as u need to be cool and calm under in all situations. i can tell u this u can make it if you don't rush and follow a plan expect to be wrong as much as expect to be right and always keep learning from what went wrong.

this October will mark my third year as a trader. the good news I am now starting to see some consistency. so believe u can do it. it won't happen in a short amount of time but it can happen!

just then i got stopped out. but i don't care at all cuz it's part of trading and there is plenty time left in the week. you will always make mistakes that's part of the biz, whether you can handle that will determine whether you can make it or not.

Good trading and suck it in and get back into it.
  • #34
  • May 8, 2008 7:57am May 8, 2008 7:57am
TS, you need to find your edge, no one would become a successful trader without finding his/her own edge. but u r right there is no working strategy in this forum but the reason why they are not working for you is because you are not the one who find that strategy, thus you don't have the confidence as much as the conceptor. That's why you kept changing your trading strategy.

I'm both a forex and stock technical trader, and the reason why I trade both market is because each market produces different chart behavior.

for eg, in stock charts we would find lots of gap, when playing stock we will also find that trend is stronger on the long side compared to the short direction. in stock understanding global index, breadth indicator, sector, industry, sub industry and benchmarking is totally neccessary. US stocks are being traded during the US hours, which lot of big and sometime surprising news are being released, thus playing intraday is mostly impossible. I'm a swing stock trader.

in forex charts, there are almost no gap except during the weekend transition thus making it very suitable for intraday trading, other than that the bear and the bull also tend to have the same strength in forex. I can trade forex with or without indicator, I use indicators only when explaining to someone new to this market. Since I'm an intraday forex trader my main strategy is by identifying swing high swing low on a basket of currencies and trading only during the "technical" hours when only few news being released.

all of my sytems are set and forget, stress free systems only because I know my winning probability is above 50% and my risk/reward is sufficient

cheers and good luck
  • #35
  • May 8, 2008 11:32pm May 8, 2008 11:32pm
Quoting &gt;Apocalypto&lt;
NoBread,

sure i was harsh in my reply but mate u needed the wake up call. this game is a tough one and it takes years to master it. still then u m=never really master it cuz u never stop learning. I have been were u are don't worry about that. i have blown 3 accounts lost my mind had all the massive lows and some great highs. being like that is wrong as u need to be cool and calm under in all situations. i can tell u this u can make it if you don't rush and follow a plan expect to be wrong as much as expect to be right and always keep learning from what went wrong.

this October will mark my third year as a trader. the good news I am now starting to see some consistency. so believe u can do it. it won't happen in a short amount of time but it can happen!

just then i got stopped out. but i don't care at all cuz it's part of trading and there is plenty time left in the week. you will always make mistakes that's part of the biz, whether you can handle that will determine whether you can make it or not.

Good trading and suck it in and get back into it.
Apoc,

I apologize if I reacted harshly, as this post clears up your intentions.

And, it also shows a certain amount of wisdom that unfortunately is lacking in so many people.

Besides......Forex can beat you up enough, so I am more likely to at least TRY to be supportive. But then again, sometimes I can be an a**hole as well. lol

Cheers,
Clockwork
  • #36
  • May 9, 2008 3:50am May 9, 2008 3:50am
Zanesville, Ohio
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #37
  • May 9, 2008 4:44am May 9, 2008 4:44am
I would like to thank all the traders on here keeping me in the game.
Thanks for the support.

  • #38
  • Last Post: May 9, 2008 4:48pm May 9, 2008 4:48pm
Quoting Moe
Zanesville, Ohio
Moe......did you lose a bet?

Close to home though!

Clockwork (of Columbus)
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