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ATP (Advanced Trading Philosophy): 3+1=WIN

  • #21
  • May 4, 2008 6:17pm May 4, 2008 6:17pm
What is the exit methodology?
  • #22
  • Edited 9:10pm May 4, 2008 6:29pm | Edited 9:10pm
Okay...I will go over the Stop Loss and Exit strategy for trading the D1 chart.


Initial Stop/Loss Options:

For the most part I have two ideas for S/L settings. One is a little riskier and the other one is more rigid. For now, I will be using the riskier one, but leaving the more rigid one close at hand. As I have not studdied price movement on all 13 pairs, this is just a generaization based upon normal price movement. As we get into this we may want to find something more concrete for each pair.

  1. Risky Option:

    1. For the 1st five closed bars after you place your order (not including Sunday) do not close out of your trade untill any bar within these 1st five closes below the set-up bar. If this Exit puts you less than the values listed below, use The Rigid Option:

  2. Rigid Option:

    1. For GU, EJ, ECAD use a 300 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars
    2. For GJ and GCHF use a 400 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars
    3. For all other pairs use a 200 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars

  3. Reversal Option (ooops...forgot this one)

    1. If you get to the point where both the AC, SWI and MACD on the D1 chart signal a reversal in direction. No need for verification of the W1 for this Exit to be valid.

Adjusting your S/L Settings:

As stated above, leave your initial S/L in place for the 1st five closed bars. After the close of the 5th bar, locate the highest point of those last five bars in a Long Trade or the lowest point of those last five bars in a Short Trade.

Once this point is located follow these rules.....

Adjusting for a Long Trade

  1. Once you have located the Highest Point of last five bars that closed once your trade has triggered, you will then wait to adjust your Initial Stop/Loss Setting until the price at any bar has closed Above this High Point (if you want you can use piercies this high point).
  2. Once a bar has closed Above this High Point, you will then look at the color of your AC indicator.
  3. If the AC indicator is Green you will use the Lowest Low of the last 3 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  4. If the AC indicator is Red, you will use the Lowest Low of the last 2 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  5. Continue to adjust your S/L settings based on the AC as your trade continues in your direction.
  6. If you get the formation of an Inside Bar, you DO NOT adjust your S/L until a candlestick has Closed Above the High of that Inside Bar.

Adjusting for a Short Trade

  1. Once you have located the Lowest Point of last five bars that closed once your trade has triggered, you will then wait to adjust your Initial Stop/Loss Setting until the price at any bar has closed Below this Low Point (if you want you can use piercies this low point).
  2. Once a bar has closed Below this Low Point, you will then look at the color of your AC indicator.
  3. If the AC indicator is Green you will use the Highest High of the last 3 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  4. If the AC indicator is Red, you will use the Highest High of the last 2 closed bars including the one that just closed.
  5. Continue to adjust your S/L settings based on the AC as your trade continues in your direction.
  6. If you get the formation of an Inside Bar, you DO NOT adjust your S/L until a candlestick has Closed Below the Low of that Inside Bar.

Secondary Stop Loss Adjustment:

  1. If you are in a Long Trade and you have made your 1st Initial Stop Loss Adjustment, then you continue to use your AC to adjust your Stop Loss UNTIL.......you get a candlestick that closes in Red. Once this candlestick closes in Red you no longer adjust your S/L under any circumstances until once again a candlestick has closed above the most recent Green candlestick.
  2. If you are in a Short Trade and you have made your 1st Initial Stop Loss Adjustment, then you continue to use your AC to adjust your Stop Loss UNTIL.......you get a candlestick that closes in Green. Once this candlestick closes in Green you no longer adjust your S/L under any circumstances until once again a candlestick has closed Below the Low of the most recent Red candlestick.

You should then be able to ride this right out of the market.

Phew....I think that is all

"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #23
  • May 4, 2008 8:17pm May 4, 2008 8:17pm
Quoting damonl
Hey saab....

I am not sure how many are repainted on the H1, but on the D1 and H4, many times it is none, and many times it is only 1, but it rarely ever is more than one all though once in a while. If yoiu did your test using 1 repainting bar I think that you would be golden
The amount of repaint is dependent on how long it has been since you last moved into or out of a time frame. So, if you have it on a hourly time frame for 24 hours, then you go to another timeframe then return to the hourly, the last 24 candles could look different.

That being said, if you understand this, it doesn't make it any less useful with the exception of looking back in history. Because it scans most recent first, it basically analyzes the past by looking at the future first. That is why it appears to pick the tops and bottoms perfectly.

Good luck with your system, I applaud you for trying to help people out.
  • #24
  • May 4, 2008 8:51pm May 4, 2008 8:51pm
And you say this is as simple as any system you've read?

Why not just take the high of last Tuesday, divided by the low of the two previous candles times three, and subtract the divisor of 1997's lowest high?

Quoting damonl
Okay...I will go over the Stop Loss and Exit strategy for trading the D1 chart.

Initial Stop/Loss Options:

For the most part I have two ideas for S/L settings. One is a little riskier and the other one is more rigid. For now, I will be using the riskier one, but leaving the more rigid one close at hand. As I have not studdied price movement on all 13 pairs, this is just a generaization based upon normal price movement. As we get into this we may want to find something more concrete for each pair.

  1. Risky Option:

    1. For the 1st five closed bars after you place your order (not including Sunday) do not close out of your trade untill any bar within these 1st five closes below the set-up bar. If this Exit puts you less than the values listed below, use The Rigid Option:

  2. Rigid Option:

    1. For GU, EJ, ECAD use a 250 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars
    2. For GJ and GCHF use a 300 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars
    3. For all other pairs use a 200 pip S/L for the 1st five closed bars

  3. Reversal Option (ooops...forgot this one)

    1. If you get to the point where both the AC, SWI and MACD on the D1 chart signal a reversal in direction. No need for verification of the W1 for this Exit to be valid.

Adjusting your S/L Settings:

As stated above, leave your initial S/L in place for the 1st five closed bars. After the close of the 5th bar, locate the highest point of those last five bars in a Long Trade or the lowest point of those last five bars in a Short Trade.

Once this point is located follow these rules.....

Adjusting for a Long Trade

  1. Once you have located the Highest Point of last five bars that closed once your trade has triggered, you will then wait to adjust your Initial Stop/Loss Setting until the price at any bar has closed Above this High Point (if you want you can use piercies this high point).
  2. Once a bar has closed Above this High Point, you will then look at the color of your AC indicator.
  3. If the AC indicator is Green you will use the Lowest Low of the last 3 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  4. If the AC indicator is Red, you will use the Lowest Low of the last 2 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  5. Continue to adjust your S/L settings based on the AC as your trade continues in your direction.
  6. If you get the formation of an Inside Bar, you DO NOT adjust your S/L until a candlestick has Closed Above the High of that Inside Bar.

Adjusting for a Short Trade

  1. Once you have located the Lowest Point of last five bars that closed once your trade has triggered, you will then wait to adjust your Initial Stop/Loss Setting until the price at any bar has closed Below this Low Point (if you want you can use piercies this low point).
  2. Once a bar has closed Below this Low Point, you will then look at the color of your AC indicator.
  3. If the AC indicator is Green you will use the Highest High of the last 3 Closed Bars including the one that just closed.
  4. If the AC indicator is Red, you will use the Highest High of the last 2 closed bars including the one that just closed.
  5. Continue to adjust your S/L settings based on the AC as your trade continues in your direction.
  6. If you get the formation of an Inside Bar, you DO NOT adjust your S/L until a candlestick has Closed Below the Low of that Inside Bar.

Secondary Stop Loss Adjustment:

  1. If you are in a Long Trade and you have made your 1st Initial Stop Loss Adjustment, then you continue to use your AC to adjust your Stop Loss UNTIL.......you get a candlestick that closes in Red. Once this candlestick closes in Red you no longer adjust your S/L under any circumstances until once again a candlestick has closed above the most recent Green candlestick.
  2. If you are in a Short Trade and you have made your 1st Initial Stop Loss Adjustment, then you continue to use your AC to adjust your Stop Loss UNTIL.......you get a candlestick that closes in Green. Once this candlestick closes in Green you no longer adjust your S/L under any circumstances until once again a candlestick has closed Below the Low of the most recent Red candlestick.

You should then be able to ride this right out of the market.

Phew....I think that is all

  • #25
  • May 4, 2008 9:51pm May 4, 2008 9:51pm
Are stops for additional orders calculated independently of the stop for the initial order or do all additional orders maintain the same stop price as the initial order?
  • #26
  • May 4, 2008 10:08pm May 4, 2008 10:08pm
Quoting chuckeepw
Are stops for additional orders calculated independently of the stop for the initial order or do all additional orders maintain the same stop price as the initial order?
You would set your initial S/L as normal, but any additional trades would merge with the first trade as it continued to move up.

Regarding additional orders. Since I think we should only place 3 trades in the direction of the trend per change in color of the SWI, I was planing on cutting the lot size in half by comparrision of the previous trade for each of the additional two orders.

Also...if your first trade set-up does not get confirmation from the MACD on W1 then you would use your calculated 2nd lot size for the next order if the SWI on D1 has not changed color.

Hope this clarifies a few things. As you get more comfortable with this, I think we will be able to use lot sizes more comfotably.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #27
  • May 4, 2008 10:09pm May 4, 2008 10:09pm
Quoting Dreamliner
And you say this is as simple as any system you've read?

Why not just take the high of last Tuesday, divided by the low of the two previous candles times three, and subtract the divisor of 1997's lowest high?
...it seemed so simple til I wrote it all down
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #28
  • May 4, 2008 10:38pm May 4, 2008 10:38pm
Just thought of something that I forgot to mention

If the AC color turns against an order that is pending and has not yet triggered, cancel that pending order and wait for re-entry.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #29
  • May 4, 2008 11:55pm May 4, 2008 11:55pm
Damoni

When you say "wait for reentry",do you mean to pull the order until the AC changes color back to match the SWI an MACD again and then reenter an orde or do you mean to adjust the entry oder to reflect the the new bar's high ot low even though the AC now no longer matches the SWI and MACD
  • #30
  • May 5, 2008 1:52am May 5, 2008 1:52am
man, you got to be kidding: - on the pict -"NOT repainting" SW option 1; smz 0.1
how much bars bars it still repaint - well, like all (which not yet been repainted)

wonder- why do you need such cr.p in your system? what kind of quality signals is this? can't find good indis or normal EhlersFisherTransform?
system only loosing credibility
Attached Image
  • #31
  • Edited 6:26am May 5, 2008 6:07am | Edited 6:26am
Quoting fxxx
man, you got to be kidding: - on the pict -"NOT repainting" SW option 1; smz 0.1
how much bars bars it still repaint - well, like all (which not yet been repainted)

wonder- why do you need such cr.p in your system? what kind of quality signals is this? can't find good indis or normal EhlersFisherTransform?
system only loosing credibility
I would expect them all to repaint using the M1 TF. Good luck scalping. This is not a scalping thread.

Remember...I don't really care if the bars get bigger or smaller, just the color change. Looks like not "all of them" as you put it did not repaint to color. Sorry, your insight has not shown any burden of proof that affects 3+1=WIN. In fact, very few of them have changed color and used with our other non-painting indicators, IMO it is of no significance. The reapining occurs mostly around the 0 level of the SWI. When testing on M1, the graph is ususally most always around the 0 level. Better luck next time

Show me the same type of chart on the D1 and W1 to add credibility to your statement. It is only common sense that would tell you that the repainting would be more prvelalent on the lower TF's. As far as I am concerned, your post has too many holes in it to have any sort of credible information. Please do try again when you are of course more prepared

BTW...what is EhlersFisherTransform.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #32
  • May 5, 2008 6:22am May 5, 2008 6:22am
Quoting chuckeepw
Damoni

When you say "wait for reentry",do you mean to pull the order until the AC changes color back to match the SWI an MACD again and then reenter an orde or do you mean to adjust the entry oder to reflect the the new bar's high ot low even though the AC now no longer matches the SWI and MACD
Wait for the AC to once again become in agreement with the rest of the indicators.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #33
  • May 5, 2008 6:53am May 5, 2008 6:53am
damonl,

Using the rules posted, I believe I saw 4 pairs setup for long trades. At the moment I'm not near my trading computer but two of the pairs were G/J and U/CHF. Would you agree? Or is Sunday night not a time to look for the trades?

HJJ
  • #34
  • May 5, 2008 6:59am May 5, 2008 6:59am
Quoting damonl
BTW...what is EhlersFisherTransform.
It's a troll.

Ok damonl, I should get setup by tonight and start trading your system once my charts are setup tonight. Hope it all works out well, when I get the time I will make PDFs aswell.

TheLegace.

Btw the request on the dashboard, if anyone could program it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You ahead of time.
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal" - Emma Goldman
  • #35
  • May 5, 2008 3:58pm May 5, 2008 3:58pm
Quoting hjjohn1
damonl,

Using the rules posted, I believe I saw 4 pairs setup for long trades. At the moment I'm not near my trading computer but two of the pairs were G/J and U/CHF. Would you agree? Or is Sunday night not a time to look for the trades?

HJJ
Here are the trades that I placed last night. Some of them were previous trades that just have not tirggered yet...

Daily Trades:

UCHF - Long @ 1.0611. This would be my 2nd trade for lot size purposes.

UJ - Long @ 105.73 - 3rd trade in progression

ECHF - Long @ 1.6318 - 2nd trade in progression

GU - Short @ 1.9703 - 2nd trade in progression

GCHF - Long @ 2.0963 - 3rd trade in progression

UCAD - Long @ 1.0216 - 1st in progression

UCAD - Long @ 1.0234 - 2nd in progression

I am not sure how you see GJ as a trade, however, it appears that we will have a long trade signal at the close of today.

H4 Trades:

GU - Short @ 1.9714 (still open)

ECAD - Short @ 1.5674

From here on out I will post my Daily Trades in the evening and my H4 trades when I can. I will also try to get you the rules for trading H4 in the near future.

"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #36
  • May 5, 2008 3:59pm May 5, 2008 3:59pm
Quoting TheLegace
It's a troll.

Ok damonl, I should get setup by tonight and start trading your system once my charts are setup tonight. Hope it all works out well, when I get the time I will make PDFs aswell.

TheLegace.

Btw the request on the dashboard, if anyone could program it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You ahead of time.
Sounds like a plan....
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #37
  • May 5, 2008 4:22pm May 5, 2008 4:22pm
Damonl,

I will try programming the Indicator now. I will get back to you all shortly but meanwhile, do you have any perfect time for setup i.e. like between 00:00GMT and 02:00GMT like it used to be with other trading systems?

I am testing the SWI new setting on 1M but so far it seems perfect.

Also, more clarifications are necessary so as to put everything in order and make the PDF file.

Another thing that bothers me is the exit rules. Can you be a bit specific about them?

I am actually not in a good state of mind and I am finding it hard to sink everything in...

All the best....
Trading Just Got Easier...
  • #38
  • May 5, 2008 5:59pm May 5, 2008 5:59pm
This is the fisher indicator that is supposedly like solar wind but it does not repaint. I don't have any experience with at all but here it is.( if i attached correctly!)
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Fisher_Yur4ik2.mq4   2 KB | 458 downloads
Is it Break Time yet?
  • #39
  • May 5, 2008 7:11pm May 5, 2008 7:11pm
Quoting damonl
BTW...what is EhlersFisherTransform.
Hi,

I modified the SolarWind to make the ACS3 version and I thought of clarifying the questions about it.

SolarWind and Fisher Transform are same (I originally worked with Fisher indicator). SolarWind is just a fancy name. They both use the same mathematical formula of Fisher (which was introduced to stock markets by Ehler). They both have two versions (in MT4 versions). One version calculates the values from left to right and the other version from right to left (which I consider to be wrong, but some people like it and so I have made SolarWind-ACS3 with both options). If you set the Smoothing to zero, it will be more noisy but no repainting and the option does not matter (all options will give samething). If you change the default option, then the smoothing will add delay and no repainting.

As Damon said, the repainting happens only when the values are small to begin with. With the default setting, all the bar values will be calculated backwards, but that does not mean all would have changed color later. Just one has to be careful if the color change bar has only tiny value (some people use a minimum value to consider it as a signal, like +- 0.3...).

chandra
  • #40
  • May 5, 2008 7:44pm May 5, 2008 7:44pm
I have that too but it lags.

Quoting dkhinckley
This is the fisher indicator that is supposedly like solar wind but it does not repaint. I don't have any experience with at all but here it is.( if i attached correctly!)
Trading Just Got Easier...
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