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I hate forex - the truth about gains in Forex

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  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 1:27pm May 3, 2008 11:34am | Edited 1:27pm
People say We can easily double/triple and
even make 1000% our money investing in forex everyday .

What I get since last 4 month is only 5-20% / month. .
last year was even worst, I get -20% to breakeven..

Whats the real problem here?
Me ? or the expectation ?
Or i need more time to ever double my money every single day until forex is closed for ever because I get all the cash in the world !

=================================================

Do you hate forex ?
Did you enter forex trading to make your millions and still trying
  • #2
  • May 3, 2008 12:11pm May 3, 2008 12:11pm
Quoting Syafi
People say We can easily double/triple and
even make 1000% our money investing in forex everyday .

What I get since last 4 month is only 5-20% / month. .
last year was even worst, I get -20% to breakeven..

Whats the real problem here?
Me ? or the expectation ?
Or i need more time to ever double my money every single day until forex is closed for ever because I get all the cash in the world !
you r expecting way to much mate. very happy with your 20% per month. But always work at improving your returns!
  • #3
  • May 3, 2008 4:52pm May 3, 2008 4:52pm
Berkshire Hathaway averaged about a 25% annual return over the past 25 years.

Yet, somehow, some will worry about a 5% to 20% monthly return.

It's not just about return, it's about consistency and keeping what one gains.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #4
  • May 3, 2008 4:59pm May 3, 2008 4:59pm
Most real investors will kill and go to war for a 10% to 20% per month gain .... consistently that is ....
  • #5
  • May 3, 2008 5:20pm May 3, 2008 5:20pm
I'm not crazy about any of the choices for the poll.

The best answer is "huge return with low risk is a myth". But it doesn't tell the whole story. There are great traders that make huge returns.

5 - 10% per month is acceptable, enough to make anyone keep trading, but I wouldn't call it REALLY GOOD. 10 - 20% per month consistently is really good IMO.

I don't understand the comparisons to Buffett, Soros, etc that people sometimes make on forums. Those who invest billions don't do it the same way as most of us. You don't get "in and out", it is what we would call very, very long term. Compare instead to Larry Williams, or someone else who trades like we do.

Syafi isn't crazy for asking, but will end up forming his own opinion.
  • #6
  • May 3, 2008 5:24pm May 3, 2008 5:24pm
i'd be more than happy with 2% weekly...

At the end of the year that would be compounded 190%... That sounds low but with 1% risk/trade that is pretty good.

3% would be awesome
  • #7
  • May 3, 2008 10:47pm May 3, 2008 10:47pm
I did 5% last week at 1% per trade, just keeping it simple.
My discretionary trading took a step up when I started trading futures instead of forex, it just seems easier for some reason, but that could also be the 3 years of blood, sweat and tears I put in beforehand.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if your just starting out, this stuff takes time.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #8
  • May 4, 2008 6:15am May 4, 2008 6:15am
Let's think together: is double money everyday possible ?
Double money is possible of course, but not every day. or may be everyday untill you loose all in one day. double money everyday means you'll have 2^20 times money you invested at the end of month ! if invested 1$, you'll have 1048576 dollars at the end of month. if someone could do this he would be the richest man in the world.
I am not sure about huge profit with low risk but considerable profit with acceptable risk is quite possible.
For me at the end of month any % of profit is good unless I don't loose money.
  • #9
  • May 4, 2008 8:59am May 4, 2008 8:59am
Quoting Syafi
People say We can easily double/triple and
even make 1000% our money investing in forex everyday .

What I get since last 4 month is only 5-20% / month. .
last year was even worst, I get -20% to breakeven..

Whats the real problem here?
Me ? or the expectation ?
Or i need more time to ever double my money every single day until forex is closed for ever because I get all the cash in the world !

=================================================

Do you hate forex ?
Did you enter forex trading to make your millions and still trying
Syafi, are you still using LT's method? Is that what got you the 5-20% a month for the last 4 months? Just curious.
  • #10
  • May 4, 2008 9:11am May 4, 2008 9:11am
It's all about risk adjusted performance.
And that is much much much much much more than only risking x% on each trade. Some of you might participate at the Varengold FX Trading Challenge where you can win .. a job. Managing 250k Dollars and Varengold will help you manage your fund and get 3rd party money for you.
The current Nr.1 has the lowest ROI of the whole Top 50 List but the best Risk Adjusted Factor (smooth Equity Curve etc)
http://www.trading-challenge.com/dow...tion_FX_TC.pdf
  • #11
  • May 4, 2008 9:23am May 4, 2008 9:23am
Quoting fxRichard
Syafi, are you still using LT's method? Is that what got you the 5-20% a month for the last 4 months? Just curious.
I use both LT rainbow & cold ? err actually warm blooded Trades . but that doesn't matter..

what baffles me is why we join forex to make easy cash and end up not having easy cash, even the most successful trader get into big troubles at times, even the best chartist make bad trades... where is the easy cash , everyone keep talking about.
  • #12
  • May 4, 2008 9:56am May 4, 2008 9:56am
My opinion (not stating that it pertains to you as I don't know your specific situation) is that with the right tools Forex can be easy. The problem is too many people try to start with minimal capital and want to instantly make a living to millions off of it. If you treat it like any other business, it takes capital and funding to get it off the ground along with a bulletproof business plan it definately makes it easier. Too many people start with minimal capital, may do well trading but get tired of it because they have not made their million in the first year! It's just like everything else, it takes money to make money, the problem is either 1)not many people have the money required to make GOOD money from forex laying around or 2)they don't have the patience and get tired or frustrated and make bad trades.

Just my .02
  • #13
  • May 4, 2008 10:14am May 4, 2008 10:14am
Quoting Syafi
what baffles me is why we join forex to make easy cash and end up not having easy cash, even the most successful trader get into big troubles at times, even the best chartist make bad trades... where is the easy cash , everyone keep talking about.
Why: Perhaps cause given a choice most people want the easy way. Can't blame them as Ronald Reagan once said " It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance? "
A poster, TheRealThing had this to say on new traders.
"
A great EA to automatically trade the forex market for them
They want pips. The more they are promised the more they like it.
They don't want to be bothered by the real risks, or anything that measures risk.
They want the profits to come in without spending the time that is necessary to monitor the market.
They don't want to know why the trading works, they just want it to work quickly and send a weekly or even daily check."
Once you get past this one may become a trader that lasts awhile.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #14
  • May 4, 2008 11:29am May 4, 2008 11:29am
Quoting fxRichard
My opinion ...........
Just my .02
Excellent point Richard
  • #15
  • May 6, 2008 6:50pm May 6, 2008 6:50pm
Well i think % returns change according to how much your are investing and your risk appetite.

If i am am only investing $500 dollars to start with, um 10% (monthly) is not worth my time and effort for $50 bucks a month (other than learning how to trade forex).

Change that to $500k to start, obviously 2% a month would be great ($10k) for most.

But who the heck has 500k sitting around, i know i dont!!
  • #16
  • May 6, 2008 9:32pm May 6, 2008 9:32pm
Quoting Cdawg
Well i think % returns change according to how much your are investing and your risk appetite.

If i am am only investing $500 dollars to start with, um 10% (monthly) is not worth my time and effort for $50 bucks a month (other than learning how to trade forex).

Change that to $500k to start, obviously 2% a month would be great ($10k) for most.

But who the heck has 500k sitting around, i know i dont!!
That's right, opinion on this would be dependant on your start-up capital.

$100 at 1% per month = $1

$1,000,000 at 1% per month = $10,000

$1,000,000 at 20% per month = $200,000
  • #17
  • May 6, 2008 9:48pm May 6, 2008 9:48pm
nobody really knows what the market will do

how can anyone guess what they make? the market will decide, not you

and if you overleverage to get 1000% returns, you will experience 50%+ drawdowns. can you stomach that? (losing half your account during the bad period)

there are no guarantees. stop reading fairy tales and watch reality tv.
  • #18
  • May 7, 2008 11:47pm May 7, 2008 11:47pm
Quoting blueruby
I'm not crazy about any of the choices for the poll.

The best answer is "huge return with low risk is a myth". But it doesn't tell the whole story. There are great traders that make huge returns.

5 - 10% per month is acceptable, enough to make anyone keep trading, but I wouldn't call it REALLY GOOD. 10 - 20% per month consistently is really good IMO.

I don't understand the comparisons to Buffett, Soros, etc that people sometimes make on forums. Those who invest billions don't do it the same way as most of us. You don't get "in and out", it is what we would call very, very long term. Compare instead to Larry Williams, or someone else who trades like we do.

Syafi isn't crazy for asking, but will end up forming his own opinion.
You call breaking the Bank of England and leveraging all your billions to do it a long term trade?
  • #19
  • May 8, 2008 12:12am May 8, 2008 12:12am
Quoting fxterrapin
You call breaking the Bank of England and leveraging all your billions to do it a long term trade?
Tiger Woods once did a hole in one on the 16th hole at the Scottsdale - Phoenix open. But it doesn't describe his whole career.

And Soros breaking the Bank of England doesn't describe his whole career either. It was a set of particular circumstances that led to him to see a particular opportunity.

The fact is the Quantum Fund will usually invest for the long term.
Not all sins are created equal
  • #20
  • May 8, 2008 12:22am May 8, 2008 12:22am
I think it takes a while to figure out where in the FX or trading world you can excel as a new trader. I know it has taken me a long time to figure out where I don't excel. And that process was an ego bruising one.

But past defeats aside, once you figure out where you can excel, and you start focusing your efforts on that particular area, whether it be manual trading off a chart, automated trading or development, system building, relationship trading, long term position trading, or seat of the pants type trading; you've overcome the first major hurdle. Most new traders never figure out where they fit in the grand market machine. There's a reason why in a thriving market economy there are doctors, lawyers, accountants, actuaries, cooks and bricklayers. All are needed but only a handful in each category really make it big or rise to the top of their profession.

We can't all be super snipers of the FX world. Nor can we all be Buffets or Soroses. It took me a long time to recognize that my strengths are in analytical thinking and strategizing, and not in making quick seat of the pants decisions off a 1 minute chart with lots of squiggly lines. I'm also terrible at trading long term positions. So I took myself out of the 1 minute chart business and the long term position business and put myself into the analytical thinking and strategy development business and that is where I've seen the best results. I only wish I could have figured out sooner where I needed to focus.
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