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0 spread, 0 commision - getting tired of all this..

  • #21
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:00pm Apr 7, 2008 3:00pm
Quoting lavatrader
Moe, are you sure about this? Do you know or just stipulate? I glanced at their website, they seem to have something to do with RCG judging by where they clear their futures and by that they used to be based in RCG's New York office. I would not be suprised if this is where they clear their forex as well.
Lava, if they were not housing the trades how would they be a profitable firm if they gave back commissions on losing trades? You would have to assume that most of their traders are profitable; is that what you are thinking. Obviously, if they are not showing a fair market then their are other ways of pulling off this little scam they are running. My question to anyone is why would you want to trade with them? Forget about what they do behind closed doors and whether you win or lose and think about cost. They are more expensive then anyone I have ever seen unless someone can prove otherwise.
  • #22
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:05pm Apr 7, 2008 3:05pm
Quoting fxtrader42
Lava, if they were not housing the trades how would they be a profitable firm if they gave back commissions on losing trades? You would have to assume that most of their traders are profitable; is that what you are thinking. Obviously, if they are not showing a fair market then their are other ways of pulling off this little scam they are running. My question to anyone is why would you want to trade with them? Forget about what they do behind closed doors and whether you win or lose and think about cost. They are more expensive then anyone I have ever seen unless someone can prove otherwise.
agree, they are giving back commissions on your own losing trades because that where your losses went, in there pockets.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #23
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:08pm Apr 7, 2008 3:08pm
look at it like this there giving back some of there profit they made off your lossing trades.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #24
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:11pm Apr 7, 2008 3:11pm
Quoting lavatrader
Speaking on "just 2 pip spreads or less," here is something I just saw in the other thread of this forum:

Quote:
"have fast execution (1-3 sec), but their SPREAD are HUGE during NEWS time. At FOMC interest rate this 18 march'08, i got 40 pips spread for GBP/JPY."
So ? You're suggesting this broker will let you trade the news normally with just that commission without the execution problems of other fixed spread brokers right when the news come out ? And if you're paying a fixed spread might as well make it 2-3 times less..
On the path to Enrichment.
  • #25
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:21pm Apr 7, 2008 3:21pm
Quoting lavatrader
Moe, are you sure about this? Do you know or just stipulate? I glanced at their website, they seem to have something to do with RCG judging by where they clear their futures and by that they used to be based in RCG's New York office. I would not be suprised if this is where they clear their forex as well.
expressFX features zero spreads; and zero commissions on non-profitable trades. This means that you pay commissions to your broker only if you make profits on your trades.

how you think they cover your spreads and commission, .. oh i get it they cover my spreads and commission when they profit from my lost.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #26
  • Apr 7, 2008 3:27pm Apr 7, 2008 3:27pm
if they get more looser's then winner's, they are gonna make a shit load of money.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #27
  • Apr 7, 2008 4:10pm Apr 7, 2008 4:10pm
Quoting Moe
if they get more looser's then winner's, they are gonna make a shit load of money.
you guys sound just like brokers

why would I as a customer even care about how brokers makes their money and manages risks. I pay 240 dollars for my car insurance and I have no idea who and how in Geico makes money. I have my legal contract and I am sure that they insure me.

I am asking a simple question - is it good if you pay a commission, or spread, or whatever you call it, ONLY from profitable trades? Why is this the case or why is this not the case.

I am tired of this stream of conscience about bucket shops. This non-sense is irrelevant when it comes to regulated brokers and can be used to scare newbies only. Anyhow, if you want to keep going go to some other thread about bucket shops. This thread is about paying spreads, commissions, however you call them, from profitable trades only. period.
  • #28
  • Apr 7, 2008 4:59pm Apr 7, 2008 4:59pm
Quoting lavatrader
you guys sound just like brokers

why would I as a customer even care about how brokers makes their money and manages risks. I pay 240 dollars for my car insurance and I have no idea who and how in Geico makes money. I have my legal contract and I am sure that they insure me.

I am asking a simple question - is it good if you pay a commission, or spread, or whatever you call it, ONLY from profitable trades? Why is this the case or why is this not the case.

I am tired of this stream of conscience about bucket shops. This non-sense is irrelevant when it comes to regulated brokers and can be used to scare newbies only. Anyhow, if you want to keep going go to some other thread about bucket shops. This thread is about paying spreads, commissions, however you call them, from profitable trades only. period.
there's only one way to find out, open account and go for it
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #29
  • Apr 7, 2008 5:15pm Apr 7, 2008 5:15pm
Quoting Moe
if they get more looser's then winner's, they are gonna make a shit load of money.
and with that kind of promotion, they somewhat motivate u too LOOSE..., hey come to us,...we will give u ur comision back, all u have to do is loose....
its just money
  • #30
  • Apr 7, 2008 5:16pm Apr 7, 2008 5:16pm
Quoting de123
and with that kind of promotion, they somewhat motivate u too LOOSE..., hey come to us,...we will give u ur comision back, all u have to do is loose....
they make it sound like it's good to loose ( where pay you if you loose but not enough to cover your losses )
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #31
  • Apr 7, 2008 5:28pm Apr 7, 2008 5:28pm
Trader A Looses $500, Tader B Wins $100, Broker Pay Trader B with Tader A Losses and Broker Keep $400 and give Trader A $20 For There Loss
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #32
  • Apr 7, 2008 8:16pm Apr 7, 2008 8:16pm
Quoting de123
and with that kind of promotion, they somewhat motivate u too LOOSE..., hey come to us,...we will give u ur comision back, all u have to do is loose....
Think twice before post anything hereAll right, once again. Is it good if you pay a commission, or spread, or whatever you call it, ONLY from profitable trades?What would you answer if you were a customer?
  • #33
  • Apr 7, 2008 10:42pm Apr 7, 2008 10:42pm
Quoting lavatrader
Think twice before post anything hereAll right, once again. Is it good if you pay a commission, or spread, or whatever you call it, ONLY from profitable trades?What would you answer if you were a customer?
nothing, i will never be a customer.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #34
  • Apr 8, 2008 1:56am Apr 8, 2008 1:56am
Wow, this thread has gone big while I was sleeping

Anyway, if anyone has an account with them it would be great to share the experience.. especially why did they decide to do that. Lol!
  • #35
  • Apr 8, 2008 7:46am Apr 8, 2008 7:46am
Lava,

I am not sure why you are having trouble understanding why none of us like FXExpress? In fact it is sad that you dont know, considering we have already said why and btw it is also sad that you dont know how insurance companies make money (one of the most straight forward business models ever!) I guess that would explain why you dont know that 6 pips is more expensive then 3, 2, or 1.
  • #36
  • Apr 8, 2008 9:12am Apr 8, 2008 9:12am
Quoting Moe
expressFX features zero spreads; and zero commissions on non-profitable trades. This means that you pay commissions to your broker only if you make profits on your trades.

how you think they cover your spreads and commission, .. oh i get it they cover my spreads and commission when they profit from my lost.
I thought there were now laws against that (brokers trading against their clients).. ? Anyway it's also possible that considering the amount of wins and losses of all participants and the big spread they could pay the loosers from the spread of the winners (if it's half to half then it's still 3 pip spread which is quite good profit for the broker - Oanda profits even with 0.9 after all), so this policy would just be to encourage people to trade more as though it is somehow "safer" and with lesser consequences this way (nooot...). If you consider for example that the big boys loose more rarely and trade big money (though maybe that's not a given even in general ?) then such a business model would manage to function well I suppose, but then what big boy would want to pay 6 pips when he can get direct ECN with half a pip or something.
On the path to Enrichment.
  • #37
  • Apr 8, 2008 9:51am Apr 8, 2008 9:51am
Guys, once again, all I see is the posts "I am not FXexpress customer," "sounds like a bucket shop" and etc. It would be great to hear someone who has actually traded express.

I am trying to understand what is the principal difference between traditional forex and express, when a trader pays commissions or spreads on profitable trades ONLY. I am trying to understand this question from a standpoint of a customer, not a broker. Afterall, what is there to say that fxclub won't lower its commission from 60 to 40 cents (or even lower) tomorrow?

Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread and lets just wait for someone who tries fxexpress and comes back with more insights.

Lava
  • #38
  • Apr 8, 2008 10:44am Apr 8, 2008 10:44am
Quoting lavatrader

I am trying to understand what is the principal difference between traditional forex and express, when a trader pays commissions or spreads on profitable trades ONLY. I am trying to understand this question from a standpoint of a customer, not a broker. Afterall, what is there to say that fxclub won't lower its commission from 60 to 40 cents (or even lower) tomorrow?


Come on, this isnt really rocket sience. Just take your last 100 trades and do a comparison. Its also evident that if you are a profitable trader, you would have made less than with a 'normal broker', if you are unprofitable, you would have lost less (this assumes their quotes/executions are fair).

Its 12 times more expensive than MB Trading (which isnt exactly cheap either), if you assume a 50/50 win/loss ratio its still 6 times more expensive. If you further assume you save 2 pips per trade because of their advertised zero spread, its still several times more expensive than MB (let alone IB or Hotspot). The only scenario this commission-structure would only remotly make sense is if you would have many small loosers and only a few very big winners, and still be profitable over all.
  • #39
  • Apr 8, 2008 11:20am Apr 8, 2008 11:20am
Quoting shrike
Come on, this isnt really rocket sience. Just take your last 100 trades and do a comparison. Its also evident that if you are a profitable trader, you would have made less than with a 'normal broker', if you are unprofitable, you would have lost less (this assumes their quotes/executions are fair).

Its 12 times more expensive than MB Trading (which isnt exactly cheap either), if you assume a 50/50 win/loss ratio its still 6 times more expensive. If you further assume you save 2 pips per trade because of their advertised zero spread, its still several times more expensive than MB (let alone IB or Hotspot). The only scenario this commission-structure would only remotly make sense is if you would have many small loosers and only a few very big winners, and still be profitable over all.
i don't think he understand that
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #40
  • Apr 8, 2008 12:29pm Apr 8, 2008 12:29pm
Lava,

I dont think you are going to get many replies from those that use this because I doubt many would sign up with them. There are two types of brokers in this market. The first type charges their clients just the difference between the bid and the ask. The other brokers charge the spread and the difference between the bid and the ask. Generally these brokers have lower spreads and tend to be cheaper then brokers who just charge the bid and ask spread. For example: lets say Broker 1 charges just the spread between the bid and the ask. Lets say their spread for EUR/USD is 2 pips. Lets say you enter a position of 1M. Your cost for the trade going in is $200. Now lets say you place the same trade with Broker 2 who charges spread and commission of $20 per M. Lets say the spread fluctuates between .5 to 1 pip for EURUSD. Your cost for the trade going in would be between $50 to $100 plus the $20. If all things are equal meaning that both brokers give a similar charting package, quality execution, fair market pricing then why would you pay an extra $80? Making that same trade with FXExpress your cost going in would be $600. My question to you is why would you think about trading with FXExpress? It's like saying I bought a house for a million dollars from Broker A because he only charged me a $10,000 dollar commission instead of buying from Broker B because he charged me $20,000 even though he could have sold me the house for $950,000. Makes no sense right? So I ask again why would you want to pay more for the same asset?
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