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Jumping onto the professional arena

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 18, 2007 8:43pm Jan 18, 2007 8:43pm
Hello everyone,

I have been involved with Forex trading for a couple of years already, learning on my own from forums, cherry-picking some techniques from here and there, tunning it all to fit my own style of trading, and of course hundreds upon hundreds of hours in front of the charts and trading with my demo account.

Well, it seems that I have finally gotten what this is all about...

For the last six months I have a positive track of records on my demo account. I dont mean hit or miss trades; I mean consistent track of records where I make money every month and in a conservative fashion. My figures during the last six months are as follows:

- Average equity increase per month = +5.2%. Highest month was +7.4%, lowest month was +3.3%, but most of the months fall between +4% to +6%.
- Wins vs. losses ratio = 68% of my trades are wins.
- Drawdowns = very small as I trade with low average.
- About two trades a week on average, exclusively intraday trades aiming for 30 to 50 pips per trade.

I know many of you will say that figures on a demo account are meaningless, but be 100% positive that I take my demo trades VERY seriously because I dont trade my account to practice or to experiment anymore, I trade it to build a profitable and consistent track of records for a consecutive string of months, which I have finally achieved.

My question is mainly directed to all of you who make a living off Forex trading and who might be "in the know" as of how to take the jump up from being an amateur into being a professional. My problem is that I just do not have the initial capital to make a living from it. I have the skills, and once again I have a consistent track of records to prove it, but I don't have the ammo to put it into practice.

How does one proceed from here? do I show my demo account balance statement in hope to catch someone's interest and get funded? do I try to get a job in an investing firm?

This is a serious post and I would greatly appreciate any kind of feedback you might be able to give me.

Thank you very much Forex Factory
  • #2
  • Edited 9:17pm Jan 18, 2007 8:58pm | Edited 9:17pm
Quoting Caballito
I know many of you will say that figures on a demo account are meaningless, but be 100% positive that I take my demo trades VERY seriously because I dont trade my account to practice or to experiment anymore, I trade it to build a profitable and consistent track of records for a consecutive string of months, which I have finally achieved.
Mate the reason why we say demo accounts are meaningless is because they don't always factor in real mkt conditions...

just for example only.. you maybe killing on the news on demo but when you try to apply the same approach to a live account you might find that you will achieve different results.

what i would recommend is if you don't have capital, start with a micro mini account and prove you system on that. once you have a live account track recored its pretty simple to pick up clients or even possible get hired to trade. it will usually will find you... % are % to a certain degree but many people have trouble trading other people money and/or very large size.

but first you need to get that record at least on a live account. Then you can worry about trader psychology when it come to trading other peoples money

best of luck trading

turbo
  • #3
  • Jan 18, 2007 9:12pm Jan 18, 2007 9:12pm
First, congrats. It sounds like you've taken great pains to focus on what's important in Forex - focusing on consistency.

Second, I think you should jump in trading your own money to start out with. You might be surprised at the psychological differences involved in trading when real money is involved. I doubt you would find anyone with trading experience who will fund you. Most of us are aware of the differences between trading real money, someone else's real money and trading on a demo account.

If you can trade consistently for 6 months with real money, then you have a good chance at getting funding.

Best,

stockwet

Quoting Caballito
Hello everyone,

I have been involved with Forex trading for a couple of years already, learning on my own from forums, cherry-picking some techniques from here and there, tunning it all to fit my own style of trading, and of course hundreds upon hundreds of hours in front of the charts and trading with my demo account.

Well, it seems that I have finally gotten what this is all about...

For the last six months I have a positive track of records on my demo account. I dont mean hit or miss trades; I mean consistent track of records where I make money every month and in a conservative fashion. My figures during the last six months are as follows:

- Average equity increase per month = +5.2%. Highest month was +7.4%, lowest month was +3.3%, but most of the months fall between +4% to +6%.
- Wins vs. losses ratio = 68% of my trades are wins.
- Drawdowns = very small as I trade with low average.
- About two trades a week on average, exclusively intraday trades aiming for 30 to 50 pips per trade.

I know many of you will say that figures on a demo account are meaningless, but be 100% positive that I take my demo trades VERY seriously because I dont trade my account to practice or to experiment anymore, I trade it to build a profitable and consistent track of records for a consecutive string of months, which I have finally achieved.

My question is mainly directed to all of you who make a living off Forex trading and who might be "in the know" as of how to take the jump up from being an amateur into being a professional. My problem is that I just do not have the initial capital to make a living from it. I have the skills, and once again I have a consistent track of records to prove it, but I don't have the ammo to put it into practice.

How does one proceed from here? do I show my demo account balance statement in hope to catch someone's interest and get funded? do I try to get a job in an investing firm?

This is a serious post and I would greatly appreciate any kind of feedback you might be able to give me.

Thank you very much Forex Factory
  • #4
  • Jan 18, 2007 9:35pm Jan 18, 2007 9:35pm
I wil follow this thread with high interest because your strategy is very similar to mine. I am paper trading with the purpose of building my confidence in my system, and achieving consistent results that will be a result of a defined system and strategy and not sheer luck. Once I am certain that i have achieved that i will take the plunge. Of courrse my problem is similar to yours...lack of funds. Keep me posted..let me know how you do.
  • #5
  • Jan 18, 2007 10:02pm Jan 18, 2007 10:02pm
I will second what turbokaos and stockwet say about demo and real trading are two different trading worlds. Demo's are good training but until real money (yours or especially someone else's) is risked you will not get a true understanding.

Trading small in a micro account will at least give you a taste. Still unless you have close family members willing to bankroll you, you will have to have many years of trading decent size account before anyone else will back you.
  • #6
  • Jan 18, 2007 10:32pm Jan 18, 2007 10:32pm
Quoting Caballito
Hello everyone,

I know many of you will say that figures on a demo account are meaningless, but be 100% positive that I take my demo trades VERY seriously because I dont trade my account to practice or to experiment anymore, I trade it to build a profitable and consistent track of records for a consecutive string of months, which I have finally achieved.

Thank you very much Forex Factory
"Caballito,
I want to invest $122,000 in forex, but I want to ask you several. . .

Oh, you say you have never traded live yourself. No thanks, I'll check with the next guy who has."

I have found that demo trading has it's place, but there is nothing like trading live. When you trade live even with a little bit of real money you will gain an awareness of Forex like you cannot any other way. There are no short cuts to success in Forex. Some say that you haven't learned Forex trading until you've lost your first account.

Take the next step, then the next, then the next. Ask yourself, "Would I trust tens of thousands of dollars or more, if it were mine, with someone who has never traded live in the market and does not have a live track record?"

Bet wishses,
  • #7
  • Jan 18, 2007 11:35pm Jan 18, 2007 11:35pm
I'll back you buddy, but I want 3%/month for myself and some collateral. You got a home?
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails
  • #8
  • Jan 18, 2007 11:59pm Jan 18, 2007 11:59pm
Caballito......
Go over to oanda and open yourself an account, you have full flexibility as to position size, you are not stuck with trading lots, minis or micros, if you want to trade153 units you can.
you can start with as little as 10 bucks but that is rediculous...so open an account for a couple of hundred, or a couple thousand even better,
if you can't scrape that together ..... You are in the wrong place.....
show a track record with real money, nobody is going to take you serious with a play money account history.

Believe me when I say and everyone who has said it before me....when its real money your whole attitude changes......unless you are a vulcan, LOL
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #9
  • Jan 19, 2007 1:59am Jan 19, 2007 1:59am
Are you trying to gather investment fund? If you really are consistently profitable, then why not start small and open a $10 account with PFG Lite? If you can keep it up ... then you'll be trading for a living soon. You can't ask people to give you money so you can trade for a living now .. today...
  • #10
  • Jan 19, 2007 3:33am Jan 19, 2007 3:33am
If your losses are small and your running a 68% win rate, why not scrape together whatever you can and run a higher risk % until it gets to a point which is sustainable for you? If the system is decent, you should have no trouble risking 5-8% per trade. Keep compounding the wins and you should be able to take any starting balance and turn it into at least several thousand in 6 months to a year.

Alternatively you could visit the mortgage broker or the local pawn shop (depending on your circumstances) and raise funds that way. Hell, that Lonespruce guy is slaving away in the arctic on an oil rig to raise more trading capital. If the system is as good as you think it is you should be able to figure out something...
  • #11
  • Jan 19, 2007 9:01am Jan 19, 2007 9:01am
Hi again everyone and thank you for your responses. They are highly appreciated.

Alright, fair enough, so it seems a demo account track of records is not valid. I have a couple of grands so I guess I could open a mini-account and trade it. I hate having to mini-trade for another 6 months, but if that's the way I will do it.

Let's assume I achieve the same goals for another half a year (around +5% average of equity increase per month). How do I proceed from there? Who do I present it to in order to get funded? Will anyone take serious a $2k account as a proof of my trading abilities?

Once again, thank you and I hope to hear your sincere answers soon.

Cheers!
  • #12
  • Jan 19, 2007 9:23am Jan 19, 2007 9:23am
[quote=Will anyone take serious a $2k account as a proof of my trading abilities?
[/quote]

The simple answer is no they would not - at least not serious investors. Maybe friends or family would trust you with you a few grand - probably would be your best bet.

Good luck with trading real money - you would be better off to start with the little you have and over time allow the account to compound.

Monaco
  • #13
  • Jan 19, 2007 9:35am Jan 19, 2007 9:35am
Quoting Caballito
...

I hate having to mini-trade for another 6 months, but if that's the way I will do it.
Don't rush. The market will always be there.

Quote
Let's assume I achieve the same goals for another half a year (around +5% average of equity increase per month). How do I proceed from there? Who do I present it to in order to get funded? Will anyone take serious a $2k account as a proof of my trading abilities? ...

No, not unless you have some collateral. Do you have a house? Friends with money? Most banks won't give you a loan, or if they do they'll restrict it to non-trading uses, like your office, paying your secretary, etc. Banks are smart, and they only part with their money if there's a good chance they'll get it back. 6 months of a history will get you no where. Most small businesses can't get a traditional loan through a bank without at least 3 years of profitable company history.
So far so good.
  • #14
  • Jan 19, 2007 10:19am Jan 19, 2007 10:19am
Quoting Caballito
Hi again everyone and thank you for your responses. They are highly appreciated.
That's what we're here for, you always get advice, even if it's not what you want to hear LOL
Quote
Alright, fair enough, so it seems a demo account track of records is not valid. I have a couple of grands so I guess I could open a mini-account and trade it. I hate having to mini-trade for another 6 months, but if that's the way I will do it.
Based on other stuff I've read around here, I could suggest you divide that pot into four tranches. Fund a live micro-mini with the 1st tranche of the four. Play your system for all it's worth for a couple of months, taking out the monthly profit and stick in with the remaining 3/4 of the initial pot. When you've proved to yourself it's really right for you, either let the 1st tranche build and up your lot size, or stake size and see where you are in another few months.

Worst case scenario is if the first tranche disappears, you've still got another 3 to play with. Stick the second tranche into your live account, review what went wrong, if anything, with the first tranche, adjust your approach if necessary, or your thinking, and go again. Follow steps 1 and 2 until you're lying on a beach somewhere thanking all those nice folk on Forex Forum
Quote
Let's assume I achieve the same goals for another half a year (around +5% average of equity increase per month). How do I proceed from there? Who do I present it to in order to get funded? Will anyone take serious a $2k account as a proof of my trading abilities?
I suspect you've already had the answer to that question

Quote
Once again, thank you and I hope to hear your sincere answers soon.

Cheers!
I suspect that we all wish you the best, and sincerely so
  • #15
  • Apr 2, 2007 2:08pm Apr 2, 2007 2:08pm
It does not matter that much how much money you start with, should your system and you keep working for years...
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  • #16
  • Apr 2, 2007 2:31pm Apr 2, 2007 2:31pm
Your not jumping into the professional arena, your jumping into the live trading arena. Big Difference.

I wish you would return and tell us how your doing with your trading.
  • #17
  • Last Post: Apr 2, 2007 2:56pm Apr 2, 2007 2:56pm
Hi,
I agree with what others said about demo/live difference, but try to increase your profit with better money management. Get a copy of Ralph Vince - "Mathematics of money management" and read about "optimal f". Then, split your money into couple of pieces and trade one of them with optimal f size. It's all about position size: if you have 5% drowdown and 5% profit, you should be able to get 20% profit with 20% drowdown. Ofcourse, watching your money melting so fast is psychologically devastating, but if neither of your system nor yourself fails, then you should be able to turn a few grand into 5 digit sum in a year.

Good luck and be carefull,
L
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