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MBTrading vs HotspotFX vs Dukascopy vs IB

  • #41
  • Mar 17, 2008 2:51pm Mar 17, 2008 2:51pm
I totally agree with you Moe. Do you know of any other options besides Oanda for smaller accounts or would you say that Oanda is the best option?
  • #42
  • Mar 17, 2008 3:08pm Mar 17, 2008 3:08pm
Quoting fxtrader42
I totally agree with you Moe. Do you know of any other options besides Oanda for smaller accounts or would you say that Oanda is the best option?
depends on how small, i have a account with O.D.L thats give me 3 pips spread on gbp/usd and very good swap rates.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #43
  • Mar 17, 2008 3:13pm Mar 17, 2008 3:13pm
what are the swap rates on gbpusd with ODL?
  • #44
  • Mar 17, 2008 3:39pm Mar 17, 2008 3:39pm
Quoting fxtrader42
I think your best option would be Oanda if you dont have a large account. Execution is very good but slippage with them can sometimes be a problem. However, I do think they are the cheapest for the smaller account guys.
Actually transferred 2/3 of my funds to my new Oanda account a couple weeks ago . I really do enjoy their spreads and infinitely adjustable lots. I've kept my account with MB for news trades / scalping, but even then the spread and lack of liquidity at news time makes it a barely positive-expectancy proposition. Considering closing the MB account altogether unless I can find a good reason to stay (like maybe using their data feeds to my advantage ).

This is slightly off-topic (should I start a new thread?), but how do ECNs compare to the futures market in terms of liquidity and spread/commission costs?
  • #45
  • Mar 17, 2008 3:59pm Mar 17, 2008 3:59pm
Based upon the suggestion of Oanda earlier in this thread, here is a snapshot of their interest spreads.

You can calculate the interest payout for AUD/USD for example by subtracting the USD Ask from the AUD Bid rate. In this case, it yields 6.95-3.7=3.25% APY (paid per-minute) if you're long AUD/USD, and costs 7.325-3.15=4.175% if you're short AUD/USD. Compare that with 1.1% long yield and 4.25% short cost with MBT.

Hence, my strategies on Oanda tend to be long-term, whereas they're short term with MBT.

Trader KGB, forgive my ignorance: how do you calculate rollover rates using Dukascopy's offset from basis? My brain is addled from too much schoolwork.
  • #46
  • Mar 17, 2008 4:04pm Mar 17, 2008 4:04pm
Quoting drummer486
This is slightly off-topic (should I start a new thread?), but how do ECNs compare to the futures market in terms of liquidity and spread/commission costs?
Euro and Yen futures are good, Pound, Swissy, Cad and Aud are tradeable, the rest is plainly illiquid. If you need i.e. Eur/Jpy or Gbp/Jpy there is no way around spot. Even small accounts can get competitive commissions tho (~$2.50 all-in per contract per side). All contracts are 125k base-ccy in size, with an exception for the pound, which is only 62.5k (means double commissions). Im staying with spot, because i get sub-pip spreads, comparable fees and liquid crosses.
  • #47
  • Mar 17, 2008 4:05pm Mar 17, 2008 4:05pm
Drummer,

Generally speaking the only way ECN brokers and Futures brokers are similar is; they both bring buyers and sellers together for a fee. However, currency futures and spot fx is are two different products. There are a couple of different types of currency futures, cme currency futures and usfe currency futures. I dont think a new thread is necessary considering there are already quite a few on FF. Currency futures and spot fx are two completely different beasts.
  • #48
  • Mar 17, 2008 5:07pm Mar 17, 2008 5:07pm
Quoting fxtrader42
what are the swap rates on gbpusd with ODL?
on 100k trade, $11.50 long and you pay $12.50 for short
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #49
  • Mar 20, 2008 11:04am Mar 20, 2008 11:04am
Hi guys

I'm day trading small size (10,000 GBP/USD) at the moment with MBT/EFX

Would I be better changing to IB or Oanda with regard to getting better commission charges ?

I haven't got a problem with MBT navigator but I need to keep costs down, as we all do I guess.

My only concern with Oanda is that it isn't an ECN and has a 3 pip fixed spread on GBP/USD.

thanks
  • #50
  • Mar 20, 2008 11:24am Mar 20, 2008 11:24am
If you trade only a minilot, MB is cheaper, because IB charges a minimum of $2.50 per trade. If you trade a bit bigger and exceed this minimum, for example 100k gbp/usd, IB is way cheaper (~$4 at IB vs. ~$10 at MB). Also at IB orders <25k get routed to Ideal instead of IdealPro, which has slightly worse spreads.

P.S.: this is all clearly spelt out on the brokers websites..
  • #51
  • Mar 20, 2008 11:30am Mar 20, 2008 11:30am
Quoting shrike
If you trade only a minilot, MB is cheaper, because IB charges a minimum of $2.50 per trade. If you trade a bit bigger and exceed this minimum, for example 100k gbp/usd, IB is way cheaper (~$4 at IB vs. ~$10 at MB). Also at IB orders <25k get routed to Ideal instead of IdealPro, which has slightly worse spreads.

P.S.: this is all clearly spelt out on the brokers websites..
Great thankyou
  • #52
  • Mar 22, 2008 4:39pm Mar 22, 2008 4:39pm
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the replies to my questions. They have helped me towards making my decision. Funnily enough, I have actually ended up going with a broker that isn't even mentioned in this thread. It is amazing what some of the brokers will do to get your business.

Thank you once again.

Regards,
K.
  • #53
  • Mar 22, 2008 6:02pm Mar 22, 2008 6:02pm
Quoting shrike
If you trade only a minilot, MB is cheaper, because IB charges a minimum of $2.50 per trade. If you trade a bit bigger and exceed this minimum, for example 100k gbp/usd, IB is way cheaper (~$4 at IB vs. ~$10 at MB). Also at IB orders <25k get routed to Ideal instead of IdealPro, which has slightly worse spreads.

P.S.: this is all clearly spelt out on the brokers websites..
if your trading non usd base pair like gbp/usd your almost paying $40 round turn
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #54
  • Mar 23, 2008 12:49pm Mar 23, 2008 12:49pm
Quoting Moe
if your trading non usd base pair like gbp/usd your almost paying $40 round turn
Hi Moe

can you elaborate please. How are you calculating the $40 ?

Who would you recommend for small size trading ?

thanks
  • #55
  • Edited 5:02pm Mar 23, 2008 4:59pm | Edited 5:02pm
Quoting Moe
usd base pair like usd/jpy is a flat $5 for open and close witch is $10 round turn now currency like gbp/usd it goes by current price so if price on gbp/usd is 2.0000 that will be $20 for open and $20 for close so thats $40 round turn, i get 2 pip spread on ODL on gbp/usd with no comm and i never had a problem, you will start with a 3 pips spread with O.D.L. if your account is small, untill MB Trading come down on there comm i can't see the diffrent from my broker, unless my broker do something stupid and it haven't happen yet.
Moe,

I think you maths might a bit off. IF the normal commission is $5 per 100k USD, and the gbp/usd rate is 2.0000, then for GU, the commission becomes $5 x 2 = $10 in and $10 out, making a total of $20 round turn, effectively, 2pips on top of spread. That is what it is is for all GBP based pairs, on MBT.

For smaller accounts, I would without a doubt say Oanda, but then it depends on your strategy.

Regards,
K.


BTW, what spread do you get on gbp/jpy? Thanks
  • #56
  • Mar 23, 2008 5:03pm Mar 23, 2008 5:03pm
Quoting kermut
Moe,

I think you maths might a bit off. IF the normal commission is $5 per 100k USD, and the gbp/usd rate is 2.0000, then for GU, the commission becomes $5 x 2 = $10 in and $10 out, making a total of $20 round turn, effectively, 2pips on top of spread. That is what it is is for all GBP based pairs, on MBT.

For smaller accounts, I would without a doubt say Oanda, but then it depends on your strategy.

Regards,
K.


BTW, what spread do you get on gbp/jpy? Thanks
yeah your right,
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #57
  • Mar 24, 2008 3:48am Mar 24, 2008 3:48am
Quoting kermut
Moe,

I think you maths might a bit off. IF the normal commission is $5 per 100k USD, and the gbp/usd rate is 2.0000, then for GU, the commission becomes $5 x 2 = $10 in and $10 out, making a total of $20 round turn, effectively, 2pips on top of spread. That is what it is is for all GBP based pairs, on MBT.

For smaller accounts, I would without a doubt say Oanda, but then it depends on your strategy.

Regards,
K.


BTW, what spread do you get on gbp/jpy? Thanks
Kermut, what do Oanda charge per $10K and $100K size compared to MB ?
thanks
  • #58
  • Mar 24, 2008 11:57pm Mar 24, 2008 11:57pm
Quoting nqtraderman
Kermut, what do Oanda charge per $10K and $100K size compared to MB ?
thanks
NQ,

Oanda are not a commission based broker, they are a market maker, hence u only pay spread. They do have some of the tightest spreads available amoung market makers, even for smalllll accounts.

Regards,
K.
  • #59
  • Aug 4, 2008 12:01pm Aug 4, 2008 12:01pm
I read somewhere that in currency trading between banks/institutes the minimum lot size is 100.000. Thats the reason the minimum size for real ECN is also 100.000. Mini-micro sizes are possible only in market-makers environment cause they actually buy the currency from u as counterside, they are the market, they can decide freely what the lot size can be. Is it true or I misunderstood something ?
If it is true, why ECNs like MBT supply you mini lots? Maybe banks and institutions still trade with 100k lots minimum and MBT gives mini lots access to individual traders like us ? If so, then it doesnt matter how many banks/institutions are bidding/offering, because they can't take your 10k order.. only other individual traders can. Thats a real liquidity damage for individual trader with lesser than 100k lot size. Maybe thats why there are two different platforms at Hotspot - one for big-boys, one for individuals.
Am I right?
  • #60
  • Aug 4, 2008 12:13pm Aug 4, 2008 12:13pm
Quoting yeah
I read somewhere that in currency trading between banks/institutes the minimum lot size is 100.000. Thats the reason the minimum size for real ECN is also 100.000. Mini-micro sizes are possible only in market-makers environment cause they actually buy the currency from u as counterside, they are the market, they can decide freely what the lot size can be. Is it true or I misunderstood something ?
If it is true, why ECNs like MBT supply you mini lots? Maybe banks and institutions still trade with 100k lots minimum and MBT gives mini lots access to individual traders like us ? If so, then it doesnt matter how many banks/institutions are bidding/offering, because they can't take your 10k order.. only other individual traders can. Thats a real liquidity damage for individual trader with lesser than 100k lot size. Maybe thats why there are two different platforms at Hotspot - one for big-boys, one for individuals.
Am I right?
You are wrong.

Banks have been offering mini lots for a while now. As the retail market has grown, banks have had to cater to the needs of retail traders, they do this by offering retail MM's and ECN's liquidity for the lot sizes they need. I do not know about micro's but MBT has said that their banks are offering it to them. However, what does it matter to you if you are being offered the same pice that someone else is getting for 100K?

Most ECN's have a couple of different feeds just like banks offer different pricing to different clients. The "big boy feed" is actually not as tight (generally speaking) as the "individual feed", at least that is the case with Currenex. I have never used HotspotFXR's feed. The reason for this is because the "big boy feed", is just that, those that want to trade in bigger amounts, so instead of seeing a lot of quotes for 1M, you see a lot of quotes starting at 5M - 25M. The more size you do the larger the spread.
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