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Giving It All Back.

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 12, 2008 9:08pm Mar 12, 2008 9:08pm
Hey guys,

I am going to keep this short and sweet. Many traders will read it, scoff, and continue on. I am hoping a few people who have experienced my problem, overcome the problem, and gone on to be successfull traders - will impart some wisdom, or better yet - give me a swft kick up the backside.

I trade very well for a period of time. I follow my rules, i trade my signals, i consistenly make 0.5 - 4% per trading day. I work hard, i dont sleep much, im ALWAYS reading, learning, trying to improve my trading. Then, one day, ill overposition, the trade will go against me, ill add to it, and add to it. Then, beofre i know it, it has wiped out weeks of hard work. In one trade.

I have done this several times now. I wont go into anymore detail. Those with anything helpful, please share it with me. I need to break this damn cycle.

Cheers.
MM
"If it bleeds ... we can kill it"
  • #2
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:15pm Mar 12, 2008 9:15pm
It happens. The first challenge is having the courage and skills to fight back.

Find a way to minimize the random blowup trade.
  • #3
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:27pm Mar 12, 2008 9:27pm
MMdealer,

Do you have a written trading plan? If not pull yourself out of the market and write one. In detail, how you will trade, what you are looking for in a trade money management and risk management rules. Detail everything, without this it is difficult to look back and see where you are deviating from your plan.

You need to isolate what it is that you are seeing, feeling when you make these trades, to avoid them in the future.

Everyone is all caught up in what indicator, system is the best. The most difficult part of trading is the inner battle with self.

Good luck.

a
  • #4
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:34pm Mar 12, 2008 9:34pm
I think you should set a minimum goal of the % gain you would be happy with each week. If you stay with the program and don't try to make it all happen in 2 weeks, then you will consistently build up your account every week. It doesn't take a whole lot of 5% weekly gains to double your account, and it doesn't take too many times of doubling even a tiny account into a fortune.

If you do get to your goal of 5% early in the week, continue to trade as you always would, but just don't get greedy. Remind yourself that if you stopped trading for the week right now, you would be a happy guy. Be patient for your best trades at all times.

When you enter a trade, never add to it when it goes against you, and set a disaster stop. Just keep in mind that if the trade starts looking and feeling bad, you can get out with the loss and continue to fight on for your weekly goal.
  • #5
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:35pm Mar 12, 2008 9:35pm
Don't add to loosing trades, only add to profitable ones. Plan your stop first and then add to trades accordingly.
  • #6
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:37pm Mar 12, 2008 9:37pm
Hi,

this is one of my fav post in this forum ..i found it by another fellow that post it.hope you will find it usefull as to me.http://forexfactory.com/showpost.php...postcount=3504

cheers

Quoting MMDealer
Hey guys,

I am going to keep this short and sweet. Many traders will read it, scoff, and continue on. I am hoping a few people who have experienced my problem, overcome the problem, and gone on to be successfull traders - will impart some wisdom, or better yet - give me a swft kick up the backside.

I trade very well for a period of time. I follow my rules, i trade my signals, i consistenly make 0.5 - 4% per trading day. I work hard, i dont sleep much, im ALWAYS reading, learning, trying to improve my trading. Then, one day, ill overposition, the trade will go against me, ill add to it, and add to it. Then, beofre i know it, it has wiped out weeks of hard work. In one trade.

I have done this several times now. I wont go into anymore detail. Those with anything helpful, please share it with me. I need to break this damn cycle.

Cheers.
MM
  • #7
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:40pm Mar 12, 2008 9:40pm
Parlenk,

The link you posted doesnt seem to work? Any chance you could tell me the author/key words to search for? Im very keen to give it a read.

Also, many thanks for the quick and thoughtful responses. All taken on board and much appreciated.

MM
"If it bleeds ... we can kill it"
  • #8
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:45pm Mar 12, 2008 9:45pm
Lol..i dont know if the link already dead.but i put it on my blog with a permit from the author. http://enson-arantes.blogspot.com/20...om-fellow.html thx

Quoting MMDealer
Parlenk,

The link you posted doesnt seem to work? Any chance you could tell me the author/key words to search for? Im very keen to give it a read.

Also, many thanks for the quick and thoughtful responses. All taken on board and much appreciated.

MM
  • #9
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:51pm Mar 12, 2008 9:51pm
You're still not disciplined yet....

work on it.
  • #10
  • Mar 12, 2008 9:55pm Mar 12, 2008 9:55pm
Quoting MMDealer
... or better yet - give me a swft kick up the backside ...
This is the best medicine.
I was fortunate enough to start my "life" in the markets working with a man that gave lessons to Lucifer in how to be a b*stard.
I graduated Class of Tough-Love from the School of Hard Knocks.

But I am never more thankful for that than in this particular market.

Now granted we are not all fortunate enough to have a "mentor" to keep us on track these days, but if you can, try and get a partner of some sorts to "trade with" and keep you sticking to the plan. {granted there is a plan} Even if they don't trade themselves {this is often even better, they'll remain objective}. Just someone who can "police" your actions for a while.
A wife/girlfriend/friend/parent/second-cousin/whatever. Someone in close proximity to where you trade. Share the plan with them. Share your trade "ideas" for the day/hour/minute with them before you pull the trigger. And most importantly ask them to help you stick to the plan by whatever means you find necessary.

There are even training firms that offer an after course "coach" if you're that way inclined.
Or maybe start a journal here on FF, but use it to "think out loud" rather than just to keep track of trades. If you've stipulated your plan at the beginning of your journo' I don't doubt there will be those that post and hold you to it as you post up your thoughts for your trades. You can have a whole community as "trading buddies" then :

It will only be a matter of time before you can "police" yourself. It becomes unconscious eventually. Your brain will over-ride your body's inclination to click buy/sell when it knows it should not be clicked, through the repetition and re-programming you went through with your "trading buddy".

Hope that wasn't too much bs to digest in one sitting and at least a little bit helpful. Just some thoughts.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #11
  • Mar 12, 2008 10:06pm Mar 12, 2008 10:06pm
Adding to losing trades has to be one of the worst reactions, but I assume all traders are guilty of this in the beginning. It's hard to close losing trades (with the chance of it turning around), and it's even harder to fight back when you have a losing streak. Just stay professional, emotionally detached, improve your plan and take it from the start as many times as you need to.

BTW - I think your % / day is a bit too high of a goal.
  • #12
  • Mar 12, 2008 10:24pm Mar 12, 2008 10:24pm
how dyo make 0.5% to 4% a day? Mind sharing your secret?
  • #13
  • Mar 12, 2008 10:54pm Mar 12, 2008 10:54pm
Cheers mate, that was an awesome post and i really appreciate it.


Quoting fsiltd
This is the best medicine.
I was fortunate enough to start my "life" in the markets working with a man that gave lessons to Lucifer in how to be a b*stard.
I graduated Class of Tough-Love from the School of Hard Knocks.

But I am never more thankful for that than in this particular market.

Now granted we are not all fortunate enough to have a "mentor" to keep us on track these days, but if you can, try and get a partner of some sorts to "trade with" and keep you sticking to the plan. {granted there is a plan} Even if they don't trade themselves {this is often even better, they'll remain objective}. Just someone who can "police" your actions for a while.
A wife/girlfriend/friend/parent/second-cousin/whatever. Someone in close proximity to where you trade. Share the plan with them. Share your trade "ideas" for the day/hour/minute with them before you pull the trigger. And most importantly ask them to help you stick to the plan by whatever means you find necessary.

There are even training firms that offer an after course "coach" if you're that way inclined.
Or maybe start a journal here on FF, but use it to "think out loud" rather than just to keep track of trades. If you've stipulated your plan at the beginning of your journo' I don't doubt there will be those that post and hold you to it as you post up your thoughts for your trades. You can have a whole community as "trading buddies" then :

It will only be a matter of time before you can "police" yourself. It becomes unconscious eventually. Your brain will over-ride your body's inclination to click buy/sell when it knows it should not be clicked, through the repetition and re-programming you went through with your "trading buddy".

Hope that wasn't too much bs to digest in one sitting and at least a little bit helpful. Just some thoughts.
"If it bleeds ... we can kill it"
  • #14
  • Mar 12, 2008 10:58pm Mar 12, 2008 10:58pm
Quoting MMDealer
Cheers mate, that was an awesome post and i really appreciate it.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #15
  • Mar 12, 2008 11:05pm Mar 12, 2008 11:05pm
I have this tendancy as well. It's like being an alcoholic: you can control it but never completely get over it.

The key for me was a slight attitude shift. Don't get wrapped up in any one specific trade. If your methods are good, the statistics will prove it out IN THE LONG RUN. Don't add to any position, good or bad. Take the position, set a stop loss, set a profit stop and then leave the damn thing alone.

If it goes against you, there are more positions where that came from. The market is not your ATM, but with steady positions you will make money over the long run.
  • #16
  • Mar 12, 2008 11:10pm Mar 12, 2008 11:10pm
Again, nice one quincy, i need to hear this sort of thing from you guys. Its not a good place to be right after a MASSIVE loss. Cheers.

By the way, me and my workmate, also an aspiring trader, are writing out full trading plans and rules tonight... should have been done properly a long time ago.

Quoting Coach_Quincy
I have this tendancy as well. It's like being an alcoholic: you can control it but never completely get over it.

The key for me was a slight attitude shift. Don't get wrapped up in any one specific trade. If your methods are good, the statistics will prove it out IN THE LONG RUN. Don't add to any position, good or bad. Take the position, set a stop loss, set a profit stop and then leave the damn thing alone.

If it goes against you, there are more positions where that came from. The market is not your ATM, but with steady positions you will make money over the long run.
"If it bleeds ... we can kill it"
  • #17
  • Edited 11:26pm Mar 12, 2008 11:24pm | Edited 11:26pm
Quoting MMDealer
Again, nice one quincy, i need to hear this sort of thing from you guys. Its not a good place to be right after a MASSIVE loss. Cheers.

By the way, me and my workmate, also an aspiring trader, are writing out full trading plans and rules tonight... should have been done properly a long time ago.
If I may be so bold to comment on this again...

Don't get too hung up on the rules. YES, a plan is good, but maybe to begin with, have criteria that need to be met before I trade, rather than the 10 (100, 1000) commandments.
Keep it short and sweet. You don't want to be flicking through War and Peace every time. 1 page with bullet points will do. Then stick it on your monitor.

Edit: Also, a "reward" for following the rules always helps! Train yourself like you would a dog {no offense}. A little treat for a job well done will do wonders for your psyche.
Carpe Divitiae
  • #18
  • Mar 12, 2008 11:27pm Mar 12, 2008 11:27pm
Yeah,
I did the exact same mistake last week actually.

The solution I have is the same Coach_Quincy has found.
And I think that after a huge loss, it is important to take a break, and know in which state of mind to be, in order for it not to happen again.

Sometimes, this market can turn you crazy in a matter of no time. And the less time you spend thinking about it the better it is.
  • #19
  • Mar 12, 2008 11:51pm Mar 12, 2008 11:51pm
Quoting MMDealer
Again, nice one quincy, i need to hear this sort of thing from you guys. Its not a good place to be right after a MASSIVE loss. Cheers.

By the way, me and my workmate, also an aspiring trader, are writing out full trading plans and rules tonight... should have been done properly a long time ago.
I walked that path - and sometimes still still tripped.
It is easy to say rules, disciplines.................
Try this. Get two or 3 separate Have only. Certain pairs on each PC no repitition. Once you have a trade on a certain pair, switch that PC off. Don't try to hatch it. Don't look at it. Put your target and stops.

I have now EA's made to my desired exit strategy. Once my entry is done with manual, I drag the EA on that chart. If you stay on the pair and watch you second thought on the rules and exit and give a chance to wrong habits to come in to kill your rules. It must turn now...It will turn now.....you add. You don't want to lose that money... you wait.....and finally the loss get too dangerous - you exit. Damn !!! all I won is given back !!!!!!
Am I partially right ??????

Learn
  • #20
  • Mar 12, 2008 11:52pm Mar 12, 2008 11:52pm
Quoting MackS10
Don't add to loosing trades, only add to profitable ones. Plan your stop first and then add to trades accordingly.

Ditto. Don't ever add to to a trade that's going the wrong way. Been there.... Add to your trades that are winning. The old cliche' really is true but until I got it, I never was successful; cut your losers and not only let your winners run, but hammer them in the process by piling on.

It sounds like you're really close......


Cheers,
Richard
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