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  • #1,641
  • Mar 7, 2008 6:23pm Mar 7, 2008 6:23pm
Hi luSan,
I am in my second pass of this thread. I am able to grasp more information now as I try to implement fti,s (and other senior member's) teaching in my trading. The text you pointed to from fti's first post made more sense now. It didnot strike me in my first read.
Three things that fti insisted was Market Structure, You and Capitalization.

Market Structure - I am still learning how the whole thing is working.
You - Now I am better in understanding the price movements, weak points and market rythem
Capitalization - Changed from a Standard account to a Mini-account (to accomodate more rescue power). This gives peace of mind when trading.

Did it improve my bottomline - Sure. My book balance is showing that.

For everyone - If you have time, please read this thread from beginning once again (2nd pass). You will find lot of information you missed in your first read.

- WaveRider3
  • #1,642
  • Mar 8, 2008 2:55pm Mar 8, 2008 2:55pm
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=7484
here's very good explained market structure. Anyone know where is fti :S
  • #1,643
  • Edited 4:20pm Mar 8, 2008 4:17pm | Edited 4:20pm
Quoting luSan
"What many traders do not know, or may fail to recognise, is that your success in taming the markets, is comprised of a mix of ingredients. Not so unlike in baking cakes.
I suggest three very important ingredients. One is " Market Structure ", the other is "YOU", then Capitalisation. Of course there are many more components, for the moment these seems of dominant importance, in my humble opinion." fti's first post.

Things are quiet here. Where is everybody?

fti said the post above.

I believe that "You" is important because my index finger tembles and my heart is full of doubt everytime I sell/buy on the 5M chart.

I believe that "capitalization" is important because otherwise how to save my a.. when I screw up and take the wrong trade.

Market structure? that is a tough one....I just play the 5M and do my best...Does he mean the "wheel within wheels" of the market?

I still wonder how others are implementing what we learned in this thread...does it work for them? It works for me, at least...How do I know? I keep tab on my failures and sucess...I hope that other do likewise.

Sometimes I wonder about our conversation here...the system seems so easy but emotionally demanding because we need to reject most of what others have told us -no stops, no indicator, naked, etc.- that might be a tough call...

Take it from there.

lusan,

I am still trying to absorb the full impact of the teachings of fti. I have been reading his posts for just over two weeks now.

Consider that when fti was educating his trainee traders it took to up 2 years to teach them how to trade his way.

If you are profitable and more confident in the way you trade after only a few months of his unique way of training, then I think you are doing very well indeed.

I have learn so much.

1. Look at the overall trend.

2. Consider fundamentals.

3. Look at the hourly trend.

4. Enter the market when your preferred time trend aligns with daily trend & preferably (for me) after a retracement.

5. Plan your attack and retreat, before entering the market.

6. Use appropriate money management.

7. Scale in & scale out of a trade.

8. Send in a pioneer(scout) to forage & map out the terrain, be prepared to rescue him ( if in trouble) or assist him when he is sucessful.

and so much,much more.

What fti requested of us all in his early posts was the necessity to talk to each other & to help each other in the understanding of his methods, sadly there are few of us here as generous and helpful as fti.

Kind regards everyone,

BabeFX.
  • #1,644
  • Edited Mar 9, 2008 3:49am Mar 8, 2008 9:27pm | Edited Mar 9, 2008 3:49am
Quoting BabeFX
What fti requested of us all in his early posts was the necessity to talk to each other & to help each other in the understanding of his methods, sadly there are few of us here as generous and helpful as fti.
Sorry, if I have been away, but as I had posted earlier, ever since my sister's death, I have incurred much of her personal and business obligations that I need to attend to and I'm sorry, but my family obligations come first to this forum.

As far as others, they might have their own obligations they are attending to. Please do not judge us too harshly.

Part of fti's training had much to do with mindset. Many of the lessons in this thread had to do with philosophies that brought about these mindsets. So, here's what I want to add to those lessons regarding philosophies and mindset ...

Any little bit that anybody gives/contributes, should be accepted graciously. Even if someone has only posted once in this thread, whatever they shared is what they chose to give and nobody should be made to feel guilty that they can't share more.

"Giving" should be unconditional, not expecting anything in return, well, in the same respect, "Taking" should be unconditional, not expecting any more than what someone has been willing to give.

How you behave in life will transpose to your trading, so do not "expect" too much from anyone, otherwise you will be disappointed when you do not receive what you want/expect from them. You will be much happier when you learn to accept any tidbit anybody has to offer without expecting any more from them. Nobody owes anybody anything. Be grateful and thankful of anything and everything you get. Don't dwell or be bitter about what you're not getting, but instead use to your benefit what you have already gotten.

I feel that this thread has a LOT of good info already disclosed that doesn't need much more explanation. If you need to understand more, then ask and those who can and are available will answer. But, if noone answers, then instead of getting upset or accuse people of not being generous or helpful, then just look for the answers within yourself. That has been one of fti's teachings, anyway ... that we have to feel the dance ourselves, nobody can do that for us.

And, just know that because you can't hear my tone of voice, I say all this with very much caring in my heart , so don't worry, you aren't getting the whip ... well, okay, maybe a teensy one, haha :.

However, I totally agree that fti is a most generous and helpful man and deserves much gratitude from all of us for all that he has shared!

Okay, with that said, another reason I haven't been too active here is ...

I have been coming up with my own little strategy using some of the methodology of fti with regards to re-averaging and what I had tested earlier with the market always coming back to the mean. Before I disclose it however, I want to make sure that it works consistently as planned, so I need a couple more weeks of quantifying the results, and then I will be able to share the logistics of it.

My plate is super full right now, so I may not be able to get back here again until then, so I apologize for not being able to participate in this thread as often as before. I really have not much more I can contribute anyway in regards to fti's method, because as I said before, his dance is very different from mine because of capitalization.

However, my dance strategy and MM that I am currently testing, will show how one can compound very fast yet safely with starting out with even a small amount of capital. I think it will blow your mind, lol. But, without the quantifiable results, it doesn't mean anything, so let me continue to do that and I'll be back (well, if things keep going as well as planned, that is, haha .
  • #1,645
  • Mar 8, 2008 9:54pm Mar 8, 2008 9:54pm
Hey leigh thanks for the update and hope every thing goes well for you.
  • #1,646
  • Mar 8, 2008 11:11pm Mar 8, 2008 11:11pm
Leigh,

thanks for your return. I also feel that something is missing...capitalization is a real killer. I hope you found something...I keep thinking that I am missing something eventhough I am about 90 % in the money...for example, with such a high success rate, shouldn't I be more aggresive than linear attack and quadratic rescue? I should...but then if I miss I will myself in a deep hole without a way out...I am considering looking into a more aggresive attack: 1-3-9. That is a thought to consider.

I am also reflecting on the return the the mean...your SMA(68) idea is very powerfull...I use it as center of gravity...why SMA(68)?

I can wait to hear from your wonderful insights...
Empty as water and soft as a facing wind mountain
  • #1,647
  • Mar 9, 2008 8:03am Mar 9, 2008 8:03am
leighsww,

Sorry about your sister. Good to have you back

HH
  • #1,648
  • Mar 9, 2008 10:44am Mar 9, 2008 10:44am
leighsww,

Good to see you posting again.

I take onboard the points you raised in you last post.

I must add, that each time I reread this thread I learn something new.

The part of the fti trading style that I find the hardest to get my head round is the adding to a losing position in order to rescue the scout, this flies in the face of everything I have prevousley learnt about not adding to a losing positon.

This rescue when used correctly can be a powerful tool but is not for the faint hearted.

Regards,

BabeFX.


I am wrong until the market proves me right.
  • #1,649
  • Mar 9, 2008 11:18am Mar 9, 2008 11:18am
[quote=BabeFX;1893039]leighsww,

Good to see you posting again.

I take onboard the points you raised in you last post.

I must add, that each time I reread this thread I learn something new.

The part of the fti trading style that I find the hardest to get my head round is the adding to a losing position in order to rescue the scout, this flies in the face of everything I have prevousley learnt about not adding to a losing positon.

This rescue when used correctly can be a powerful tool but is not for the faint hearted.

Regards,

BabeFX.

Hey you are so right - when I first read this thread I thought it was similar to the Martingale method(boy did I get burned using that.

Still finding it difficult to add to a loser.

Most times I would rather just get out and re-enter..

Regards

Steve
  • #1,650
  • Mar 9, 2008 1:52pm Mar 9, 2008 1:52pm
Thanks, everyone

Quoting luSan
I am also reflecting on the return the the mean...your SMA(68) idea is very powerfull...I use it as center of gravity...why SMA(68)?
It's actually the SMA(48) (not 68). LOL, you guys have to read better :

Quoting BabeFX
The part of the fti trading style that I find the hardest to get my head round is the adding to a losing position in order to rescue the scout, this flies in the face of everything I have prevousley learnt about not adding to a losing positon.
Quoting stewrigh
Still finding it difficult to add to a loser.
Most times I would rather just get out and re-enter..
LOL, yeah, you have to totally get used to changing your mindset with going with fti's style of trading. At first I had a hard time getting rid of my stop loss, but now I have no problems with that and will never ever use one again and boy, has it made a HUGE difference in my winning streaks!

As far as adding to losing positions ... you guys need to make that transition and change your mindset on that one, too, because "re-averaging" is such a powerful tool and using it skillfully can make all the difference in the world to having a "no loss" book! If you don't, you will continue to have losses and you will also never pass that point of having "no fear."

I can't tell you how liberating having "no fear" is and what it can do for your confidence and in reducing your stress level, lol.

But, I understand what you are going through if you are having to use the re-averaging with the way fti dances. With fti's dance method, you will be sweating bullets should the market move against you considerably and you do not have enough resources/capital to conduct multiple rescues.

This was the dilemma I was encountering, which is why I went to the "tearing" method of coming back to the mean. This has now become my main dance, my MO for my trading, BUT I have made some major changes to it since my previous post about it (which I will share in totality later).

Hopefully, my new method/strategy will help you overcome those obstacles, because my goal is to make it a much safer method (especially in regards to rescues), yet yield amazing compounding returns. So, please bear with me with patience, because I will come back and share that all here as soon as I quantify enough results to be viable.

However, you will still have to overcome the "fear" factor, because my method has at times not finished going against me once I'm full in, BUT because I'm normally at a decent height of the "tearing" and because I have confidence that the market always returns to the mean at some point, and because of the way I have calculated how many troops are entered in at 3 levels ... my troops are really never in danger of my trade ever turning into a loss. Even if I do not make the maximum pips I had intended to (due to the market not returning to the mean right away), I will at the very least break even, because my Basis will always have enough leeway from the mean to never have me sweating bullets. I repeat, there should be no reason to ever have a loss if your balls of steel are kept shiny, lol.

amenlo9 ... regarding your PM about having a spreadsheet for re-averaging ... I have created my system/strategy with a totally awesome spreadsheet that will help everyone tremendously (you will only have to enter 2 numbers and it will calculate for you everything!), but again, you will have to be patient because I have to do my quantifying to ensure that it's totally viable and successful

Oh, and I want to finish this post off by saying ... my method/system will totally dispel all the conjectures about not being able to trade profitably and successfully build wealth with starting out with a small account. I will show how anybody starting out with as little as $1,500 can turn it into (ahem, well, I'm not going to even go there until you actually see my quantified results, lest I be labeled insane or a nutcase, haha : - yeah, okay, I guess I've already been labeled that from the start of this thread, but you know what I mean ).
  • #1,651
  • Mar 9, 2008 3:32pm Mar 9, 2008 3:32pm
Thanks leighsww for your effort and i hope u will post holy grail soon

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/special...824582027.html

What do you people think about this ?
  • #1,652
  • Mar 9, 2008 3:32pm Mar 9, 2008 3:32pm
Hi, leighsww! Thanks, for sharing and finding time for us, less advanced people in fti's trading. I'm looking forvard for your numbers.
Alex
  • #1,653
  • Mar 9, 2008 4:16pm Mar 9, 2008 4:16pm
leighsww,

Regarding my SMA(68). The thing also works...the same concept but it seems that my dixlexic brain turned your 48 into 68...Oh well...I have beeing doing fine with the 68, but since you have more experience than me..I will listen and change it...you center of gravity...returning to the mean lights the path about the very short term trend and I found it very consistent with fti book management strategy.

Fear...Yes...I am...even when I played with very little money...even though I already know that average down will save the day...I think that it will take a while before that fear goes away...I hop keep practicing until that day...well, actually I will be rasing tomorrow morning my bar...

I will keep my current dance until you show us a safer way... welcome back.
Empty as water and soft as a facing wind mountain
  • #1,654
  • Edited 4:51pm Mar 9, 2008 4:31pm | Edited 4:51pm
Hello Dear FTI, Leighsww and all.

FTI, very happy to see you have started this thread. Your knowledge and lessons that you are sharing with all of us are really valuable and feel very priviledge and honored to learn from your experience.

Right now, I am learning this thread with great dedication (currently at page 32) and will certainely become an active members when will have pass through all the thread.

Dear Leighsww, thank a lot to have encouraged FTI to post his thouhgts here on this thread. I was also a member of Feb thread ans was sad that FTI was misandertood.

It is a really a great moment in life when during your learning curve, you have the "good karma" of crossing paths with people like FTI who have a great knowledge and experience of the market in all senses.

I really like his stories, lessons ans how he teach us the important things about the markets.

FTI, thank a lot for taking so much time to enlighten all of us.

Leighsww, thank a lot for keeping this thread alive and for sharing your insight about your learn from FTI method. Very much appreciated.

Sincerely

Shreem
  • #1,655
  • Mar 9, 2008 5:05pm Mar 9, 2008 5:05pm
Not trying to post any competitors site but this post is a lesson everyone should learn, hopefully from others mistakes and not your own..... the difference between wisdom and knowledge.


I am not trying to start an argument but trading with the assumption that the market will always return to an average, can be costly.........especially if the market runs away from you, by the time the thrust finishes the average might be well past the available margin if we are overleveraged.

If we enter wrong and the market goes against us, and we can see a context or pattern to the market that allows us to average in then by all means try an salvage the position, but there must come a time when we have to cut and run and live to fight another day.

or else we can end up like this............

http://www.medianline.com/

fwiw,
  • #1,656
  • Mar 9, 2008 5:41pm Mar 9, 2008 5:41pm
Quoting auxesis
Not trying to post any competitors site but this post is a lesson everyone should learn, hopefully from others mistakes and not your own..... the difference between wisdom and knowledge.

or else we can end up like this............

http://www.medianline.com/

fwiw,
Man, this was fun to read...it shows how important is to know ourselves...we are our best friends as well as our worst enemies...hope hope hope...the road to hell is pebbled with hope stones.

I do not know about you but when I average in or out I do not have any hope but keep my eyes on the inmediate PA trend and avoid like hell no having enough troops to save the day...the thought of breaking even is really creepy but the thought of waiting for a reversal is even worse. To wait for a reversa is to accept that we error in entering. We should be already OUT. I play the 5M and do not wait for reversal but PA pump to profit..-if needed.
Empty as water and soft as a facing wind mountain
  • #1,657
  • Mar 9, 2008 5:52pm Mar 9, 2008 5:52pm
Quoting BabeFX
l

The part of the fti trading style that I find the hardest to get my head round is the adding to a losing position in order to rescue the scout, this flies in the face of everything I have prevousley learnt about not adding to a losing positon.

This rescue when used correctly can be a powerful tool but is not for the faint hearted.

Regards,

BabeFX.
Like you, it took a little while for me to accept this as a real valid way to get out an ill timed or even wrong directional entry based on everything I was initially taught, however, once I adapted this to my own MO, much like Leighs, and more rigid than fti's due to my newness to this type of trading, my trading has completely changed for the better. This type of pre examining worst case scenarios before even executing (winning the battle before it begins) limits my overall exposure, in essence is a forced MM tactic. I have executed over 50 cycles of trades and many have been rescued, without a single cycle loss in over 2 months. I have become much more conservative than I once was as a result of the MM and rescue skew, but that has led to clearer thinking and trades without any degree of stress. Trends may runaway for more than what one initially thinks, but at no time in history has a stock, commodity or currency pair taken off and never retraced even just a little bit, thats when we counter. With proper MM in place I know I can rescue any situation, quickly and painlessly, the key is to start small. The only bad thing about this method of no S/L is that it's made me feel stupid that it's taken me 3 years to figure this out. Thanks to my good friend StevieT for planting the seed and revealing his method to me early on of the validity of zero stop losses and thanks to Fti for sharing an incredibly orchestrated rescue skew, the AOW, trading has entered a whole new dimension of enjoyment for me. At times the rigidity of past knowledge tries to sneak its way back in but as I avoid the need for traditional S/L, RR ratios, and a screen full of indicators, but just keep things simple, the better my trading has become. Although I may explore other traders methods with curiosity, I now could not even consider opening a trade without a rescue skew preplanned, regardless of the trade MO. The AOW is a powerful tool to implement into ones trading mindset amongst other mindsets and the rescue that Fti has taught has truly rescued me as a trader. Good luck with letting go. I am glad I did.

NP
  • #1,658
  • Mar 9, 2008 6:17pm Mar 9, 2008 6:17pm
Hey Pete

Great to see you're having success here

Catch you soon

Steve
Quoting Northpro
Like you, it took a little while for me to accept this as a real valid way to get out an ill timed or even wrong directional entry based on everything I was initially taught, however, once I adapted this to my own MO, much like Leighs, and more rigid than fti's due to my newness to this type of trading, my trading has completely changed for the better. This type of pre examining worst case scenarios before even executing (winning the battle before it begins) limits my overall exposure, in essence is a forced MM tactic. I have executed over 50 cycles of trades and many have been rescued, without a single cycle loss in over 2 months. I have become much more conservative than I once was as a result of the MM and rescue skew, but that has led to clearer thinking and trades without any degree of stress. Trends may runaway for more than what one initially thinks, but at no time in history has a stock, commodity or currency pair taken off and never retraced even just a little bit, thats when we counter. With proper MM in place I know I can rescue any situation, quickly and painlessly, the key is to start small. The only bad thing about this method of no S/L is that it's made me feel stupid that it's taken me 3 years to figure this out. Thanks to my good friend StevieT for planting the seed and revealing his method to me early on of the validity of zero stop losses and thanks to Fti for sharing an incredibly orchestrated rescue skew, the AOW, trading has entered a whole new dimension of enjoyment for me. At times the rigidity of past knowledge tries to sneak its way back in but as I avoid the need for traditional S/L, RR ratios, and a screen full of indicators, but just keep things simple, the better my trading has become. Although I may explore other traders methods with curiosity, I now could not even consider opening a trade without a rescue skew preplanned, regardless of the trade MO. The AOW is a powerful tool to implement into ones trading mindset amongst other mindsets and the rescue that Fti has taught has truly rescued me as a trader. Good luck with letting go. I am glad I did.

NP
  • #1,659
  • Edited 7:44pm Mar 9, 2008 7:21pm | Edited 7:44pm
Quoting auxesis
I am not trying to start an argument but trading with the assumption that the market will always return to an average, can be costly.........especially if the market runs away from you, by the time the thrust finishes the average might be well past the available margin if we are overleveraged.

If we enter wrong and the market goes against us, and we can see a context or pattern to the market that allows us to average in then by all means try an salvage the position, but there must come a time when we have to cut and run and live to fight another day.
luSan and NorthPro had some GREAT posts that clearly exemplifies that they have reached the point of being even better traders than those "rogue" professional ones in the article, lol.

But that's the thing ... those rogue traders didn't get to read this thread, lol, nor have benefited from the insights, skills, lessons and teachings of fti

Seriously though, I will say this to add to what luSan and NorthPro mentioned about their success rate so far with their trading ... with the article/story you linked to, with all 3 traders named there, we don't have many facts to how they traded those trades. We don't know what their strategy was with how they enter or exit their trades, we don't know what timeframe chart they were trading on, we don't know if they were trading with or against the longer-term trend, we don't know if they tried to re-average their positions and just failed to exit when reaching the break even point or better, we don't know if they had many opportunities to exit at profit (if they did re-average their Basis) but just failed to do so because of "greed" or "hoping" to make more profit, etc., etc.

Like with the one called Frank, he relied on hearsay info from his friend to make a decision on his trade. I wouldn't base my trades on something like that. I don't even trade with fundamentals (even though fti does to some extent) because to me, fundamentals are also not always reliable (look what happened with Friday's NFP news). Dancing with the PA is what I focus and make my decisions on.

Anyway, there are so many possibilities as to why those 3 pro traders failed and why someone else might have been successful had they traded in their place. I bet luSan, NorthPro and all of us here who are conducting re-averaging successfully, would have rescued and exited those trades well before they even got into that kind of trouble (and we wouldn't have over-extended our initial position in the first place without being able to conduct enough rescues to get ourselves out safely).

Just because those 3 pro traders failed their trades and lost a lot of money hoping that the market would come back to their Basis, doesn't mean much unless one trades in the same manner and with the same mindset in which those traders traded. To me, when professional traders lose money, it's because they deviated from their system and broke all their own rules (if they had any rules), or they were too rigid in their mindset, or greed and/or hope took them over. It's clear that they did not re-average their Basis appropriately nor safely exit when the opportunity presented itself. That is the only reason that makes sense as to why they got themselves in the bind that they did.

If they had learned and had achieved the proper mindset and MM with the lessons we have been provided here by fti, then their outcome may have been a very different story.

Also, for me, one should never have to be in rescue mode to the point where it becomes an overnight position.

My MO is that of "daylight" trading and that's it. There is no holding longer-term positions for me if I can help it. One can call that rigid, but I don't care :

Again the goal in finding my system/strategy was to conduct a safe method with using re-averaging, especially if one cannot trade with the aggressiveness and ferocity in which fti does, lol. Only those not following all the lessons learned here will find destruction with trading my system/strategy or any system/strategy for that matter.

BTW, have you read through this entire thread? I would recommend that you do so, if you haven't. Sorry, but I just have this feeling that you haven't, cuz I don't think you would have felt the need to warn us about those rogue traders if you had, lol (or maybe you still would have and that's fine, as every post has merit to enlighten and teach us things ). Anyway, there's some very powerful stuff embedded in this thread that have made a huge difference in our lives/trading!
  • #1,660
  • Mar 9, 2008 8:06pm Mar 9, 2008 8:06pm
Quoting shreem
Dear Leighsww, thank a lot to have encouraged FTI to post his thouhgts here on this thread. I was also a member of Feb thread ans was sad that FTI was misandertood.
Hey, nice to see you again, shreem!

You've got a ways to go yet till you reach the end of reading this entire thread, but it'll all be worth it
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