Can anyone prove broker fraud? | Forex Factory

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Can anyone prove broker fraud?

  • #1
  • First Post: Feb 27, 2008 3:11pm Feb 27, 2008 3:11pm
I was thinking that someone who believes that they were a victim of price manipulation could contrast their charts with someone else's chart (from the same broker, of course.)
Binary Options Trader
  • #2
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:16pm Feb 27, 2008 3:16pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
I was thinking that someone who believes that they were a victim of price manipulation could contrast their charts with someone else's chart (from the same broker, of course.)

This is not Fraud. It is market abuse. Fraud is knowingly deceiving someone for financial gain. Like telling clients they do not stop hunt, when in fact they do. Besides that, FX is not regulated, like a central exchange, so there is no such thing as a fair price. Abuse would be very hard to prove in the USA.

If you want a fair price, trade currency futures on a central exchange. No such thing in spot.
  • #3
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:23pm Feb 27, 2008 3:23pm
Personally, I like things the way they are, because I am a stop hunter also. without dealers, where would I find the good stuff in low liquidity times? LOL
  • #4
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:23pm Feb 27, 2008 3:23pm
Well, without getting into semantics, I was just wondering if anyone can prove, via charts, how their prices were manipulated by their broker. It wouldn't be hard for someone to post up a chart and have another person post up a contrasting chart from the same broker, would it? Or maybe I am just totally misunderstanding people's accusations.....
Binary Options Trader
  • #5
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:24pm Feb 27, 2008 3:24pm
Quoting smjones
Personally, I like things the way they are, because I am a stop hunter also. without dealers, where would I find the good stuff in low liquidity times? LOL
Stop hunting, by large institutional investors, is not the same as broker-cheating, is it?
Binary Options Trader
  • #6
  • Edited 4:09pm Feb 27, 2008 3:26pm | Edited 4:09pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
Well, without getting into semantics, I was just wondering if anyone can prove, via charts, how their prices were manipulated by their broker. It wouldn't be hard for someone to post up a chart and have another person post up a contrasting chart from the same broker, would it? Or maybe I am just totally misunderstanding people's accusations.....
Yes, I do see your point, but all prices are manipulated from all brokers, because they usually create a synthetic price based on several feeds. The only thing I know that does not is Level 2 and that just lists all the feeds that ecn has. in the quotes.
  • #7
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:55pm Feb 27, 2008 3:55pm
Can you elaborate with that price chart? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or anything like that...but what does that chart prove? What should I be looking for in it? I don't get it....
Binary Options Trader
  • #8
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:56pm Feb 27, 2008 3:56pm
I was thinking that you should be able to post up a chart that is slightly different from someone else's chart from the same broker.
Binary Options Trader
  • #9
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:57pm Feb 27, 2008 3:57pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
Can you elaborate with that price chart? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or anything like that...but what does that chart prove? What should I be looking for in it? I don't get it....
No I don't think I want to do that. In fact I think I will just delete the post.

You are right. No hard feelings here.
  • #10
  • Feb 27, 2008 4:11pm Feb 27, 2008 4:11pm
smjones, I trully appreciate you trying to assist me in this matter, but I'm still trying to understand how exactly a broker would rip someone off and get away with it without any shred of evidence. I am really not trying to challenge you here, but rather I'm trying to get more clarity on this issue. When people talk of price manipulation is that for all of the broker's clients? Or is it manipulation tailored to each client? If it is manipulation tailored to each order, then clearly the manipulation would be shown in a contrasting chart from the same broker. And if the manipulation is for all of the broker's clients, then the broker's charts should be so far off from other Forex charts that the corruption should be self-evident. (I believe someone did this with Crown Forex once, but Crown Forex was widely known to be a bucket job.)

I recently got a friend into Forex, and he rushed into the market with money. Naturally, he made all the obvious greedy-newbie mistakes and wiped his account out in no time. Later on, I then mentioned to him that some Forex traders believe that brokers somehow cheat, and he was convinced that he was cheated also (he didn't think that risking 40% of his balance on one trade was a bad thing.) So that got me to thinking on the issue of broker-cheating: How much of it is TRUTH, and how much of it is simply SOUR GRAPES?
Binary Options Trader
  • #11
  • Feb 27, 2008 4:14pm Feb 27, 2008 4:14pm
I also got to thinking....

If I had a Forex brokerage house....and I was in competition with dozens of other Forex brokers...wouldn't I want my clients to succeed so that I could earn more profits in the long term? Wouldn't it make more business sense to retain clients and continually gain new ones...as opposed to constantly losing clients (because their accounts were wiped out) and then having to worry about finding fresh new ones?

Also, how many times has a new Forex trader, with some super tight stop loss, blamed his broker because he got stopped out for having a 25 pip stop loss on some pair like the GBP/JPY?
Binary Options Trader
  • #12
  • Mar 1, 2008 7:16pm Mar 1, 2008 7:16pm
Are you implying that there's no such thing as a brokers' fraud?
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
I also got to thinking....

If I had a Forex brokerage house....and I was in competition with dozens of other Forex brokers...wouldn't I want my clients to succeed so that I could earn more profits in the long term? Wouldn't it make more business sense to retain clients and continually gain new ones...as opposed to constantly losing clients (because their accounts were wiped out) and then having to worry about finding fresh new ones?

Also, how many times has a new Forex trader, with some super tight stop loss, blamed his broker because he got stopped out for having a 25 pip stop loss on some pair like the GBP/JPY?
God's Love For You Is Sure Never You Doubt It
  • #13
  • Mar 1, 2008 8:05pm Mar 1, 2008 8:05pm
For me to believe that there is no broker fraud is for me to believe that all brokers are equal. Of course I don't believe that.

But....

There are all these claims of broker fraud, but little (if any) solid evidence to back them up. Not to mention the fact that most of these individuals, who claim to have been defrauded of tens of thousands of dollars, never once felt compelled to file a complaint with the NFA.
Binary Options Trader
  • #14
  • Mar 1, 2008 8:42pm Mar 1, 2008 8:42pm
Can sharp practises be called fraud? How can one prove a case whereby a bad trade is left to wipe out an account and run it into a negative balance?
Margin calls are supposed to be wen free margin is zero and not negative balance right? (I was taught you cant loose more than your capital in forex trading)
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
For me to believe that there is no broker fraud is for me to believe that all brokers are equal. Of course I don't believe that.

But....

There are all these claims of broker fraud, but little (if any) solid evidence to back them up. Not to mention the fact that most of these individuals, who claim to have been defrauded of tens of thousands of dollars, never once felt compelled to file a complaint with the NFA.
God's Love For You Is Sure Never You Doubt It
  • #15
  • Mar 1, 2008 9:04pm Mar 1, 2008 9:04pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
There are all these claims of broker fraud, but little (if any) solid evidence to back them up. Not to mention the fact that most of these individuals, who claim to have been defrauded of tens of thousands of dollars, never once felt compelled to file a complaint with the NFA.
How do you know that they did not file a complaint? Do you really think that the NFA will list and publicise every single complaint made by every single individual?
  • #16
  • Mar 1, 2008 10:28pm Mar 1, 2008 10:28pm
Look...the purpose of this thread is to prove broker fraud, it's not to debate with me whether or not broker's defraud or not. Either you have proof or you don't.
Binary Options Trader
  • #17
  • Mar 1, 2008 10:56pm Mar 1, 2008 10:56pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
Look...the purpose of this thread is to prove broker fraud, it's not to debate with me whether or not broker's defraud or not. Either you have proof or you don't.
some of these traders are going by what they heard and never experience being fraud them selfs from there brokers and just complaining for others.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #18
  • Mar 1, 2008 10:59pm Mar 1, 2008 10:59pm
Quoting Yoda_Glenn
smjones, I trully appreciate you trying to assist me in this matter, but I'm still trying to understand how exactly a broker would rip someone off and get away with it without any shred of evidence. I am really not trying to challenge you here, but rather I'm trying to get more clarity on this issue. When people talk of price manipulation is that for all of the broker's clients? Or is it manipulation tailored to each client? If it is manipulation tailored to each order, then clearly the manipulation would be shown in a contrasting chart from the same broker. And if the manipulation is for all of the broker's clients, then the broker's charts should be so far off from other Forex charts that the corruption should be self-evident. (I believe someone did this with Crown Forex once, but Crown Forex was widely known to be a bucket job.)

I recently got a friend into Forex, and he rushed into the market with money. Naturally, he made all the obvious greedy-newbie mistakes and wiped his account out in no time. Later on, I then mentioned to him that some Forex traders believe that brokers somehow cheat, and he was convinced that he was cheated also (he didn't think that risking 40% of his balance on one trade was a bad thing.) So that got me to thinking on the issue of broker-cheating: How much of it is TRUTH, and how much of it is simply SOUR GRAPES?
this is so true, traders loose money and think some how it wasn't there fault then they start to blame the broker.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #19
  • Mar 3, 2008 4:15am Mar 3, 2008 4:15am
I once lost money to NF. My account ran into a debit balance. Is this suppose to be so? When am i suppose to have a margin call on an account wit 1:200 leverage-when my equity runs into a debit balance?I thought its suppose to imply wen equity runs to half your initial capital, or worse still wen equity is zero? I was made to believe you cant loose more than your capital in forex trading. so tell me, do i have a case or not?
Quoting Moe
this is so true, traders loose money and think some how it wasn't there fault then they start to blame the broker.
God's Love For You Is Sure Never You Doubt It
  • #20
  • Mar 3, 2008 4:48am Mar 3, 2008 4:48am
It appears that most complaints are due to the lack of knowledge on how a particular borker works. It is up to the trader to know all that they can about their borker. If you notice a decrepency then call them on it. Ask them to explain it to you. If you still don't understand or agree -then move to another. There is no shortage of brokers.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
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