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  • #5,101
  • Feb 20, 2008 4:43am Feb 20, 2008 4:43am
Quoting fxtradera
Just something to be even more aware of, and I'd be interested to hear Rick's comments on this one.

I was trading GBP/JPY for 1.5 hours before 4:30am news today on the live platform - refer to calendar for specifics of release. I know spreads will widen, but this went at least 34 pips. GBP/USD was at least 26 pips. Price did not really spike - they just widened the gap. Any shorts may well have got stopped out.

Rick - any logic in the EA to handle this circumstance?
In fact the spread was rather decent for IBFX standards. I have seen up to 60 pips during news and I actively traded some reports. I had the managetp EA ready and only loaded it as the spread was tightening again after a minute. Or I just manually closed - but since they became so much "better" with their new liquidity feed, there are only requotes and even worse spreads. In fact I only kept my accounts there as they promised ECN via MT4 for 3 months. Now it is even crappier than ever.

I don't know how the logic of the EA would handle deviating spreads during news times ... in fact some news had the power to move the markets (or pairs) into a new direction altogether.

Does your beta9 run without trouble so far?
Greetz!
Matt
  • #5,102
  • Feb 20, 2008 4:49am Feb 20, 2008 4:49am
FYI I have never seen Alpari Uk spreads widen at any time.
  • #5,103
  • Feb 20, 2008 4:56am Feb 20, 2008 4:56am
Quoting cryten
FYI I have never seen Alpari Uk spreads widen at any time.
Hiho, Master Cryten!

Yeah, I guess I will give them a try together with EFX for the manual side. The hotspot thing on MT4 is rumoured to come out soon, too, but they seem to widen spreads amazingly.
It is like jumping from one bucket of turtles into the other ... as you get my meaning. LOL!!

Ciao
Matt
  • #5,104
  • Feb 20, 2008 8:20am Feb 20, 2008 8:20am
Quoting Pipsqueaker
Rick did we loose the PSAR TS with the new Beta? Mine worked before and now it does not. I have it set to true 2 dots back
Hi Pipsqueaker,

Back from Disney. Got in at 2AM, so still in a fog.

PSAt TS should still work, but I will check. I did modify it back in Beta 8 to begin trailing only after the dots were in profit, which was a suggestion by a forum member. Would you like an option to trail like before? How does everyone feel about this?

In the meantime, I will make sure I didn't break this I wrote an awful lot of code that week.

Rick
  • #5,105
  • Feb 20, 2008 8:28am Feb 20, 2008 8:28am
Quoting fxtradera
Just something to be even more aware of, and I'd be interested to hear Rick's comments on this one.

I was trading GBP/JPY for 1.5 hours before 4:30am news today on the live platform - refer to calendar for specifics of release. I know spreads will widen, but this went at least 34 pips. GBP/USD was at least 26 pips. Price did not really spike - they just widened the gap. Any shorts may well have got stopped out.

Rick - any logic in the EA to handle this circumstance?
The best soultion is an ECN broker. Some are beginning to use MT which is teriffic. I believe Matt and Orion posted a while back on a list.

Also, as I have said, when we get SN the way we want it and believe it will be a tradable system long-term, I will gladly port it it other platforms like Tradestation, Ninjatrader, etc that support different brokers.

The only ways I know of to handle this in code would be to trade without a defined stop or trade with wider stops. I trade with wider stops even on the smaller TF's, but since I use the ATR based RM, my lost sizes keep me at my defined risk. This means smaller positions (and smaller profits), but I live to fight another day when the brokers widen spreads or hunt stops.

Rick
  • #5,106
  • Feb 20, 2008 8:41am Feb 20, 2008 8:41am
Quoting Gnat
In fact the spread was rather decent for IBFX standards. I have seen up to 60 pips during news and I actively traded some reports. I had the managetp EA ready and only loaded it as the spread was tightening again after a minute. Or I just manually closed - but since they became so much "better" with their new liquidity feed, there are only requotes and even worse spreads. In fact I only kept my accounts there as they promised ECN via MT4 for 3 months. Now it is even crappier than ever.

I don't know how the logic of the EA would handle deviating spreads during news times ... in fact some news had the power to move the markets (or pairs) into a new direction altogether.

Does your beta9 run without trouble so far?
Greetz!
Matt
Hi Matt,

Yes, I am with IBFX and the widening is really troubling. I remember a while back that they said that the live servers don't show this behavior to the same degree as the demo servers, but I haven't compared my live account during news lately.

I wrote, about a year and a half ago, some code that would allow the user to specify for any desired pair a range of times on w weekly basis to avoid taking trades and it worked fine. This situation is different as we want to protect open positions. What we could use this for is:

1. Avoid taking new position on news spikes (the Price filter should do this also)
2. Close out positions in profit before news. I don't really like the randomness of this, but for scalper, it would be fine. As an aside, a close postions at end of week would be useful for some, as well.
3. Widen the stops before news, but restore them after. I don't like this either, as it means more risk.
4. Open a temporary hedge in the opposite direction of the position before news. This would incur transaction costs and possible loos (or profit) when the hedge is removed. I have implemented something similar before in which autohedges were applied at market close and removed at market open. I also used this system to balance positions that exceed a ceartain equity drop. So when the JPY carry trades went bananas, my code caught the drop at 20% DD and balanced the account with a hedge. I kept the hedge on until the price came back up. This works, I actually prefer cutting the losses short. All that hedging gets to be nerve wracking

The real answer is ECN brokers.

Rick
  • #5,107
  • Feb 20, 2008 10:01am Feb 20, 2008 10:01am
Hi
This is my first post in this thread so hi Everyone. It is very interesting system I know that ther is an ea but first of all I want to learn how to use this strategy manuly. I play on gbp/jpy on 5m. Could someone give me instructions what indicators and what parameters should I use because thread is so long and informations from the first post are not up to date. Thanks and best regards. Andrew
  • #5,108
  • Feb 20, 2008 11:28am Feb 20, 2008 11:28am
Quoting rmyers
Hi Pipsqueaker,

Back from Disney. Got in at 2AM, so still in a fog.

PSAt TS should still work, but I will check. I did modify it back in Beta 8 to begin trailing only after the dots were in profit, which was a suggestion by a forum member. Would you like an option to trail like before? How does everyone feel about this?

In the meantime, I will make sure I didn't break this I wrote an awful lot of code that week.

Rick
Hallo Rick!

Oh yes ... an "on & off" switch please. Then I do not have to change everything here.

Hope you had a good vacation and the kids are happy!

Ciao
Matt
  • #5,109
  • Feb 20, 2008 11:48am Feb 20, 2008 11:48am
Quoting rmyers
Hi Matt,

Yes, I am with IBFX and the widening is really troubling. I remember a while back that they said that the live servers don't show this behavior to the same degree as the demo servers, but I haven't compared my live account during news lately.

I wrote, about a year and a half ago, some code that would allow the user to specify for any desired pair a range of times on w weekly basis to avoid taking trades and it worked fine. This situation is different as we want to protect open positions. What we could use this for is:

1. Avoid taking new position on news spikes (the Price filter should do this also)
2. Close out positions in profit before news. I don't really like the randomness of this, but for scalper, it would be fine. As an aside, a close postions at end of week would be useful for some, as well.
3. Widen the stops before news, but restore them after. I don't like this either, as it means more risk.
4. Open a temporary hedge in the opposite direction of the position before news. This would incur transaction costs and possible loos (or profit) when the hedge is removed. I have implemented something similar before in which autohedges were applied at market close and removed at market open. I also used this system to balance positions that exceed a ceartain equity drop. So when the JPY carry trades went bananas, my code caught the drop at 20% DD and balanced the account with a hedge. I kept the hedge on until the price came back up. This works, I actually prefer cutting the losses short. All that hedging gets to be nerve wracking

The real answer is ECN brokers.

Rick
Hallo Rick!

It is really hard to tell, which of the possibilities is doing better (or is less harmful) than the other. In fact with a longer approach the news spikes do not really change too much. On the other hand the trades off the 15M chart may be spoiled.
If we test in the end for both profitability and for lowest possible relative drawdown I would be surprised if we would come out on the short end of the TFs. But then again, maybe one of the methods could be built in for the scalping side of the EA usage.

Interbankfx just has to pay the price soon. They have been straightforward lying about their developement, as the did concerning their connection to FXLiquidity and their bankruptcy. Today they took about 30% of my pips in spread as I was jumoing in & out the Guppy. At EFX at the same time it only cost 6-7%.

But then we need an MT4 ECN asap!

Hope the flu is gone for good!
Ciao!
Matt
  • #5,110
  • Feb 20, 2008 11:53am Feb 20, 2008 11:53am
Quoting andrewsurfer
Hi
This is my first post in this thread so hi Everyone. It is very interesting system I know that ther is an ea but first of all I want to learn how to use this strategy manuly. I play on gbp/jpy on 5m. Could someone give me instructions what indicators and what parameters should I use because thread is so long and informations from the first post are not up to date. Thanks and best regards. Andrew
Hallo Andrew!

Please search for posts from NOFX from November and December 2007 on. You do that by going into his profile and the go to "all posts by NOFX". There you can select the corresponding posts.
He has mastered the 15M manual side and is also looking into the 5M timeframe every now and then. You will also find his setup and the way he built his charts. I guess there is no better way to get accustomed to the manual side.

By the way, it is an excellent approach to first cope with the manual side and understanding the system and only after that dive into EA trading. Otherwise you can never tell if something is wrong or right.

Welcome on board & thanks for the first post!
Ciao!!
Gnat - Matt
  • #5,111
  • Feb 20, 2008 11:58am Feb 20, 2008 11:58am
Quoting Gnat
Hallo Rick!

Oh yes ... an "on & off" switch please. Then I do not have to change everything here.

Hope you had a good vacation and the kids are happy!

Ciao
Matt
Hi Matt,

OK, I know you are an enthusiastic user of PSAR TS and I like it too. I will add a flag to switch between a BE start and the straditional start (and I will probably use it, as well).

Just one kid, my daughter. It was her reward for good grades. She has been working really hard this year and she is a great kid ( as teenager's go ).

Rick
  • #5,112
  • Feb 20, 2008 12:05pm Feb 20, 2008 12:05pm
Quoting Gnat
Hallo Rick!

It is really hard to tell, which of the possibilities is doing better (or is less harmful) than the other. In fact with a longer approach the news spikes do not really change too much. On the other hand the trades off the 15M chart may be spoiled.
If we test in the end for both profitability and for lowest possible relative drawdown I would be surprised if we would come out on the short end of the TFs. But then again, maybe one of the methods could be built in for the scalping side of the EA usage.

Interbankfx just has to pay the price soon. They have been straightforward lying about their developement, as the did concerning their connection to FXLiquidity and their bankruptcy. Today they took about 30% of my pips in spread as I was jumoing in & out the Guppy. At EFX at the same time it only cost 6-7%.

But then we need an MT4 ECN asap!

Hope the flu is gone for good!
Ciao!
Matt
Hi Matt,

I agree with all your points about IBFX. It doesn't usually affect me much as I usually trade the H4 and above. I actually like to scalp, but with a non-ECN broker you are at their mercy. When I switch to an ECN broker, I will scalp a bit more. That having been said, I have been running SN on a EURJPY M30 and it has been doing fine.

Rick
  • #5,113
  • Feb 20, 2008 3:39pm Feb 20, 2008 3:39pm
Quoting rmyers
The best soultion is an ECN broker. Some are beginning to use MT which is teriffic. I believe Matt and Orion posted a while back on a list.

Also, as I have said, when we get SN the way we want it and believe it will be a tradable system long-term, I will gladly port it it other platforms like Tradestation, Ninjatrader, etc that support different brokers.

The only ways I know of to handle this in code would be to trade without a defined stop or trade with wider stops. I trade with wider stops even on the smaller TF's, but since I use the ATR based RM, my lost sizes keep me at my defined risk. This means smaller positions (and smaller profits), but I live to fight another day when the brokers widen spreads or hunt stops.

Rick
This is quite unsettling....Rick, what's your opinion on this???

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582
  • #5,114
  • Feb 20, 2008 6:55pm Feb 20, 2008 6:55pm
Quoting wolfeman
This is quite unsettling....Rick, what's your opinion on this???

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582
Hi Wolfe,

Thanks for that info. To be honest, I have always approached the markets with the thought that either the brokers or the market makers were not acting in my best interests. That is why I trade mostly on the 4HR and Daily charts. This keeps you out of the way of any non-ECN broker shenanigans.

There are lots of good traders trading with Metatrader (many of them on this thread). There are also many good strategies. The traders and strategies that will prosper in the long run are often the ones that trade the longer timeframes. That is why I stress MM so much. The longer the TF, the more profit you can generate through sound MM. But humans like action and the promise of fast money. So we gravitate toward scalping to "speed the process up". We tend to overtrade and set poor stops. Then the brokers and market makers have us. They run a few stops for fun and take our money.

That having been said, if a broker is ECN based then scalping can be exciting and reasonably fair.

Here is my commitment to this group: I will port this strategy to MB Trading when we are done. They have an SDK designed just for this. Both Ninjatrader and Smartquant support MBT and both have .NET based coding bases. I am a .NET programmer in the real world, so this has special appeal to me.

I also have to say that IBFX on my live account has never taken me out of a trade by manipulating price. Their demo servers are another story. I have seen some truly insane price action on those. I will feel better when I'm off them altogether, but they haven't cheated me yet.

Rick
  • #5,115
  • Feb 20, 2008 7:09pm Feb 20, 2008 7:09pm
I should also mention that since MBT has an SDK, I can write a true black box. MBT has no native charting. Ninjatrader, OpenQuant, e-Signal, etc all charge for their platforms and feeds. If you don't mind using MT4 to view price and the indicators, I can keep the cost to nothing. Just don't expect fancy charts

Rick
  • #5,116
  • Feb 20, 2008 7:25pm Feb 20, 2008 7:25pm
I've read this and it makes more confusion.

Which broker is better then?

Is there anyone who is trading with MT4 yet still make good profit from it?

Thanks..



Quoting wolfeman
This is quite unsettling....Rick, what's your opinion on this???

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582
  • #5,117
  • Feb 20, 2008 7:58pm Feb 20, 2008 7:58pm
Quoting rmyers
Hi Wolfe,

Thanks for that info. To be honest, I have always approached the markets with the thought that either the brokers or the market makers were not acting in my best interests. That is why I trade mostly on the 4HR and Daily charts. This keeps you out of the way of any non-ECN broker shenanigans.

There are lots of good traders trading with Metatrader (many of them on this thread). There are also many good strategies. The traders and strategies that will prosper in the long run are often the ones that trade the longer timeframes. That is why I stress MM so much. The longer the TF, the more profit you can generate through sound MM. But humans like action and the promise of fast money. So we gravitate toward scalping to "speed the process up". We tend to overtrade and set poor stops. Then the brokers and market makers have us. They run a few stops for fun and take our money.

That having been said, if a broker is ECN based then scalping can be exciting and reasonably fair.

Here is my commitment to this group: I will port this strategy to MB Trading when we are done. They have an SDK designed just for this. Both Ninjatrader and Smartquant support MBT and both have .NET based coding bases. I am a .NET programmer in the real world, so this has special appeal to me.

I also have to say that IBFX on my live account has never taken me out of a trade by manipulating price. Their demo servers are another story. I have seen some truly insane price action on those. I will feel better when I'm off them altogether, but they haven't cheated me yet.

Rick
Thanks Rick.

I respect your opinion and that's why I posted that piece- to get your input. I love MT4 but there has been a lot of talk lately regarding spreads, stop hunting and the like. I've been demoing with IBFX for a while now and have been considering MBT as well, but I want the MT4!

I too, have changed my trading to the longer TF's and rarely look at 5 or 15m charts, other than to confirm a good entry point. I don't know if that plugin would really affect my trading style, but it sure had me wonderin'. It is interesting the way they tried to hide that report and subsequent posts after the word leaked.
  • #5,118
  • Feb 20, 2008 8:12pm Feb 20, 2008 8:12pm
Quoting wolfeman
Thanks Rick.

I respect your opinion and that's why I posted that piece- to get your input. I love MT4 but there has been a lot of talk lately regarding spreads, stop hunting and the like. I've been demoing with IBFX for a while now and have been considering MBT as well, but I want the MT4!

I too, have changed my trading to the longer TF's and rarely look at 5 or 15m charts, other than to confirm a good entry point. I don't know if that plugin would really affect my trading style, but it sure had me wonderin'. It is interesting the way they tried to hide that report and subsequent posts after the word leaked.
Hi Wolfe,

I have also heard horror stories from equities traders. Forex is a bit wilder, but some equities brokers that are also market makers will move a market to take out stops same as Forex. Heck, even Pimco (where Bill Gross works) is being sued for doing this in the bond market. Bottom line is that the markets are stacked against the retail traders. That is why the higher TF charts are safer. It is harder for brokers to undermine you on the higher TF's. It is easier for them to nail the scalpers.

I highly recommend reading Jack Schwager's 3 Market Wizard's books. Out of 3 books, I think only one trader was a scalper. Also, just listen to the Fast Money traders on the CNBC show. Their trades last for days/weeks/months. Finally, read any of Alexander Elder's books. He starts with e weekly to trade the daily. I do this with SN. I only trade in the direction of the next TF up trend. For me that is usually the D1 or W1.

Rick

Rick
  • #5,119
  • Edited 8:44pm Feb 20, 2008 8:29pm | Edited 8:44pm
Quoting rmyers
Hi Wolfe,

I have also heard horror stories from equities traders. Forex is a bit wilder, but some equities brokers that are also market makers will move a market to take out stops same as Forex. Heck, even Pimco (where Bill Gross works) is being sued for doing this in the bond market. Bottom line is that the markets are stacked against the retail traders. That is why the higher TF charts are safer. It is harder for brokers to undermine you on the higher TF's. It is easier for them to nail the scalpers.

I highly recommend reading Jack Schwager's 3 Market Wizard's books. Out of 3 books, I think only one trader was a scalper. Also, just listen to the Fast Money traders on the CNBC show. Their trades last for days/weeks/months. Finally, read any of Alexander Elder's books. He starts with e weekly to trade the daily. I do this with SN. I only trade in the direction of the next TF up trend. For me that is usually the D1 or W1.

Rick

Rick
Hey Rick, we really should talk more often. That's solid info there, thanks.

Pardon my ignorance here- when you speak of porting our strategy to MBT; does that mean we will be able to use MT4, both manually and EA's with MBT? That would be great.
  • #5,120
  • Feb 20, 2008 8:52pm Feb 20, 2008 8:52pm
Hey Rick, just what is a black box anyway?

Quoting rmyers
I should also mention that since MBT has an SDK, I can write a true black box. MBT has no native charting. Ninjatrader, OpenQuant, e-Signal, etc all charge for their platforms and feeds. If you don't mind using MT4 to view price and the indicators, I can keep the cost to nothing. Just don't expect fancy charts

Rick
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