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Are we trading different markets?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Feb 16, 2008 12:30pm Feb 15, 2008 7:39am | Edited Feb 16, 2008 12:30pm
i recently found this post http://forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=69882 about drawing S+R properly (and aediaz1 makes some good points - this is in no way a shot at him) however when i tried to redraw his chart (chart1.jpg) i found i couldn't (chart2.jpg), at least not exactly (which makes a big difference to the way we trade).

notice the candle formations in comparison, especially around the larger candles (notably 1 feb) - id also like to point out "gaps", ive heard of people trading these "gaps", but as you can see again around 1 feb, gaps are only shown on my chart.

secondly look at the stoch from the 8feb onwards (ive used the standard stoch that comes with MT - i assume aediaz1 used the same) it matches roughly until that point.

around the 17 feb chart1 has a large up-shadow on the candle at the very top, chart2 does not - this may be due to timezones, if his 4hr candle closes 1-3 hours before mine it will effect the over all appearance. between time zones and broker feeds i often wonder if we all see the same thing. in the stocks there is a central feed like the FTSE so everyone sees the same thing, but alas we are on our own in the forex world. please take some time to compare your own charts with these.

FINAL NOTE - the highs and lows do seem to match quite well, which may be of some help in the future
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: chart2.gif Size: 23 KB
  • #2
  • Feb 15, 2008 7:59am Feb 15, 2008 7:59am
One chart is from FXDD, one is from XTrader. Mine is from IBFX and doesn't look like either one exactly. I'd guess that the 4 hour candle begins at a different time for each.

At IBFX the 4 hr. candles begin at 00:00 GMT, then 04:00, etc.
  • #3
  • Feb 15, 2008 8:03am Feb 15, 2008 8:03am
Highest timeframe that is consistent across brokers is the one hour. On four hour and daily everyone sees a different picture.
  • #4
  • Feb 15, 2008 8:09am Feb 15, 2008 8:09am
Maybe a conspiracy ?

I'm running my charts tru FXDD, maybe yours (or mine) had some connection problems , like disconnection, it happens to mine and then I can be offline for 15-30mins. Best answer I have.

Seems like your link is wrong http://forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=69882&page=4 should be the correct one. I got into a different thread.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #5
  • Feb 15, 2008 8:34am Feb 15, 2008 8:34am
link changed, cheers

i haven't pulled up a GBP/USD chart in ages so when i opened that chart now the data was downloaded at once, but even if you get disconnected surely you should still receive accurate data when you get reconnected.
  • #6
  • Feb 15, 2008 9:05am Feb 15, 2008 9:05am
can anyone match my 1HR EUR/USD chart? (ignore the BUY, i couldn't work out how to get rid of it, sorry) to make a comparison. thanks
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  • #7
  • Feb 15, 2008 12:33pm Feb 15, 2008 12:33pm
This is Alpari its fairly near but there does seem to be occasional differences
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The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.
  • #8
  • Feb 15, 2008 2:38pm Feb 15, 2008 2:38pm
Quoting trevman
i recently found this post http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=69882 about drawing S+R properly (and aediaz1 makes some good points - this is in no way a shot at him) however when i tried to redraw his chart (chart1.jpg) i found i couldn't (chart2.jpg), at least not exactly (which makes a big difference to the way we trade).

notice the candle formations in comparison, especially around the larger candles (notably 1 feb) - id also like to point out "gaps", ive heard of people trading these "gaps", but as you can see again around 1 feb, gaps are only shown on my chart.

secondly look at the stoch from the 8feb onwards (ive used the standard stoch that comes with MT - i assume aediaz1 used the same) it matches roughly until that point.

around the 17 feb chart1 has a large up-shadow on the candle at the very top, chart2 does not - this may be due to timezones, if his 4hr candle closes 1-3 hours before mine it will effect the over all appearance. between time zones and broker feeds i often wonder if we all see the same thing. in the stocks there is a central feed like the FTSE so everyone sees the same thing, but alas we are on our own in the forex world. please take some time to compare your own charts with these.

FINAL NOTE - the highs and lows do seem to match quite well, which may be of some help in the future

Hi trevman

what you are seeing is the main reason that I think candlestick patterns, Doji's, pin bars etc. are a lot of hooey. The only thing useful is that they display actual price movement, (which is important) but the various shapes that are generated depend on how you slice the time.

Here's a crude diagram of showing what I mean. The price oscillates between low and high and back to low. Each sweep takes 4 hours. Below it are 3 different sets of 4h candles generated from the same chart.

The usual advice is to use whatever your broker gives you. Anyone who really believes that the shape of the candles and the patterns they make is important of themselves might as well be believe that they have a hotline to the only real thing as well and use what they get from their broker.

Of course, if the different brokers had their servers in sync then at least the hour and sub hour candles should look the same, more or less.

Me, I think one man's pin bar is another man's mexican hat.

rgds
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  • #9
  • Feb 16, 2008 2:16am Feb 16, 2008 2:16am
coda, your pic shows my main point (though perhaps the shadows are placed wrong), but look back to my original post about what i said about highs and lows. going by your pic they would be correct (even though the candles aren't). of course these are affected by broker feeds and timezones too but not as much i feel.

if price reaches a high of 1.4500 and everyone of our brokers show that, regardless of the time of the start of the candle it will have a high of 1.4500. if it starts lower and ends at 1.4500 it will be a bull candle, if it opens at 1.4500 and drops it will be a bear candle. so i think trend lines drawn from and high and low point maybe more credible than other forms of analysis, but i agree that candle patterns don't work in this game.

i think EA's and systems relying on candles and candle outputs wont work, just look at the stoch in my first post. if we sell above and buy below we would have made diff trades (or the EA would - and backtest would be diff ) perhaps we should start a protest to get all brokers on the same feed and timezone : haha
  • #10
  • Feb 16, 2008 4:31am Feb 16, 2008 4:31am
only at interbank i had this big bar, more than 50 pips of diference:
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  • #11
  • Feb 16, 2008 4:52am Feb 16, 2008 4:52am
Yes you'll find that some brokers do spike the prices to take out stops. I run a number of feeds and its surprising to see how much they all vary, especially at news time. I've seen as much as 50pips or more difference. Its difficult to know which is telling the truth. Intraday, prices are definitely manipulated but usually the overall daily figures are similar except for servers on different time zones where you are bound to see differing closing figures.
Follow the money. Follow the money. Follow the money.
  • #12
  • Feb 16, 2008 7:48am Feb 16, 2008 7:48am
if your broker is spiking prices higher and lower, creating false highs and lows then perhaps even those aren't as consistent as i thought they might be. maybe the only "unbiased" charts are provided by free charts such as

http://quote2.fxtrek.com/misc/fxcm2.asp
http://www.netdania.com/ChartApplet.asp

an unbiased feed isn't much if you cant trade it, but at least you can see when your broker is playing games with you.
  • #13
  • Last Post: Feb 16, 2008 8:17am Feb 16, 2008 8:17am
Quoting trevman
coda, your pic shows my main point (though perhaps the shadows are placed wrong), but look back to my original post about what i said about highs and lows. going by your pic they would be correct (even though the candles aren't). of course these are affected by broker feeds and timezones too but not as much i feel.

if price reaches a high of 1.4500 and everyone of our brokers show that, regardless of the time of the start of the candle it will have a high of 1.4500. if it starts lower and ends at 1.4500 it will be a bull candle, if it opens at 1.4500 and drops it will be a bear candle. so i think trend lines drawn from and high and low point maybe more credible than other forms of analysis, but i agree that candle patterns don't work in this game.

i think EA's and systems relying on candles and candle outputs wont work, just look at the stoch in my first post. if we sell above and buy below we would have made diff trades (or the EA would - and backtest would be diff ) perhaps we should start a protest to get all brokers on the same feed and timezone : haha

Hi trevman,

You're right. The shadows are wrong. I hope the point is made despite the mistook.

As to differences, there will always be slight differences I suppose. There is no single market and when your broker is the market maker you had better consider what they are able to do and what you are exposed to.

There are a lot of threads about this topic, and I see you have another which looks similar, so I'm going to leave this one with a last comment.

What's a real bummer, is that the spread can fluctuate dynamically, especially under news conditions.

I don't know if you experienced an buy order getting triggered and having it's stop loss immediately triggered as well. When it's all over, you look at the chart and see that bid price never went near you original order. Unfortunately the spread stretched so wide that it triggered the order, with the bid price ideally positioned to kill the order the moment it was created.

So, consider that the chart doesn't even have to be different to be different.
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