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  • #1,421
  • Feb 11, 2008 3:23pm Feb 11, 2008 3:23pm
http://equivalentsrdc.cme.com:443/index.html

Here are live quotes of futures on globex. FTI do they play any role for you. I find them interesting to know when is higher bid or ask :S
Otherwise impresive attack (just i must make it in real and i will abandon school ) cheers
  • #1,422
  • Edited 4:55pm Feb 11, 2008 3:37pm | Edited 4:55pm
Hi Everyone,

Okay, as I've mentioned, I've been experimenting with rescue missions, and here's what I've found using my new strategy ...

1) I can make good pips with rescues
2) I find rescues easier than attacks
3) I like rescues even better than attacks, lol

fti will whip me on the last one, but oh well : (maybe I was meant to be a Medic rather than Commando, haha)

Anyway, here's what my strategy looks like ...

I used the 48sma on the 15m timeframe for this, because it's the only way I know to make it easy to visualize the "tearing" of the PA (this is the only use for it, I do not use it for crossovers or anything else).

Refer to 15m (first chart below) - You can see the PA "tearing" away from the 48sma. I wait until I sense the right time for entry of my rescue troops.

I went against the longer term trend on this one, since I felt a small retracement on the 1hr looked imminent (see 3rd chart), but I would recommend that it's best to keep Scout going the same way as the longer term trend direction, because it's much safer (I am using the 1hr and 4hr for establishing the longer term trend since I'm daylight trading on the 5m and will not be engaged in a rescue mission for more than a few hours, thus logically (for me) those are more relevant than the Daily, in my opinion).

The reason I feel it's safer ...

If you're originally going in the direction of the longer term trend, then even in rescue mode, you can normally sit tight if the PA decides to keep going against you, because it should at some point correct itself to come back to your Basis (and eventually the 48sma).

I always keep my eyes on where that 48sma is in the case of the PA continuing to move in wrong direction after rescue troops were entered, because as the 48sma starts to get closer to my Basis, then I would need to complete the rescue as soon as it hits a little past the B/E point (meaning, I will not need to make a larger profit on that one, as my primary premise first and foremost, is to always save/rescue my troops).

Okay, that being said ...
I use this method only if Scout is the only one in trouble. I also now use a VERY small scout. Scout is only .1 lot (yes, there's a decimal point in front of the number :, lol. Oh, and I am on a mini account, so .1 lot = $1000, I'm using 100:1 leverage. 1 pip = 9 cents).

Here's why Scout is so small ...

1) I am wanting to make my Basis 1 - 2 pips away from B/E.
2) Even if the PA moves 200 pips away from Scout, I'm only down $18.00. If I have to enter a rescue at 200 pips away, I still would only need a 3 pip move to B/E.

Here's the math with being 200 pips away (which is the worst case scenario, because it hardly ever gets that much away in a single bound - even news releases aren't normally that large before a pullback happens):

.1 lot (scout) @ 152.00 + 7 lots (rescue troops) @ 150.00 = 1065.20 / 7.1 = 150.03 (new re-averaged Basis)

The 5m (2nd chart) shows an example of my rescue mission.

What happens if the PA starts to head back in the intended direction with only Scout in?

Well, I go into attack mode, however, I DO NOT attack in the same way that I conduct the rescues. I still use my more conservative troop entries for that, because I cannot conduct rescues with 7 lots/troops in.

However, because Scout is now so very small (.1 lot), I use 2 lots for level 2 attack (I treat attacks as if Scout were my original 1 lot trooper).

One last thing about rescues ...

I would recommend that we not be too greedy, lol, cuz we can find ourselves losing what we've gained if we don't exit rescues when we should. Even if we exit with only 20 pips per troop (20 x 7 = 140 pips total), that's GREAT profit!

Just my opinion, but ...

Best not to "regret or dwell" about leaving pips on the table (refer to "Monk" lesson), otherwise that will lead to "hoping" and not wisely exiting when one should (refer to "Old Man" lesson).

Just like those lessons taught ... "let it go," don't look back and hang on to "what could have" been, always move forward and take the first rescue opportunity that comes along, cuz there will be MANY, MANY missions ahead where you will bank nice profits!
.
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  • #1,423
  • Feb 11, 2008 3:44pm Feb 11, 2008 3:44pm
Quoting fti
the thoughts marked in red is dandgerous thinking, one will never ever be sure in the trade, sureity only adds to rigidity, I hope you will think about what I said.
Okie dokie, I'll think about what you said, but reading the PA's higher-highs, lower-lows, breaks of previous bars, etc. are all part of my feeling the dance :. For myself, I'd feel like I was entering willy-nilly if I don't look for those dance moves, lol.

But, I will keep into consideration what you have warned. Thank you for your feedback

Quoting fti
Generally , this is the possible attack trading scenario.
And this is what I meant by fti entering and exiting faster and at different places than I (see how aggressive he is? But, of course, this "pro" has the capital and experience to do so, lol). Hopefully, we can achieve his level/league someday
  • #1,424
  • Edited 4:58pm Feb 11, 2008 4:25pm | Edited 4:58pm
Whoops, I just realized that the 2nd mission (the hypothetical one) wouldn't have been made, cuz my Scout was LONG, so I wouldn't have played that as a "rescue" at that point (I need to revise my chart/post and not show the 2nd mission, lol.)

For those who already read my post, I'm going to need to make the changes.

* Edited - okay, my chart and post have been revised to take out the hypothetical example that I had showed earlier
  • #1,425
  • Feb 11, 2008 4:41pm Feb 11, 2008 4:41pm
Thanks Leighsww,
I actually did the same thing yesterday, I jumped the gun on the long entry for a quick scalp, luckily I only had the scout in and was also waiting for a confirmation of direction. My scout is small too so I was never really worried.

Hi Fti,
thanks for your example, while aggressive it's clear what you are doing, thank you.
  • #1,426
  • Feb 11, 2008 5:20pm Feb 11, 2008 5:20pm
Hi All,

This is how I (roughly) see the math for Fti's attack sequence:

On entering troops -

Stage Enter: Total in battle:
A 1 scout = 1 unit
C 1x1 = 1 = 2 units in
E 2x2 = 4 = to get 4 units we add 2 for total of 4
attack 4x4 = 16 = in full scale attack now add 16 for total of 20

On taking profits -
Here he uses a simple reverse fib sequence to take profits and reduce exposure to the return leg and set up for the next wave.

last entry of troops was 16 so halve that to start at 8 (or the last entry was 4 plus 4 say) to give the starting fib number.

Does that sound right?
  • #1,427
  • Feb 11, 2008 9:35pm Feb 11, 2008 9:35pm
Quoting leighsww
...............I wait for clear signs of higher-highs, lower-lows, breaks of the previous bar, breaks of the previous high/low, etc. (the latter two depends on the circumstances of the dance ... sometimes I'll wait for break of a previous high/low instead of the previous bar if I need a more secure confirmation that the PA is moving forward or possibly pulling back).

Quoting fti
Leighsww,
the thoughts marked in red is dandgerous thinking, one will never ever be sure in the trade, sureity only adds to rigidity, I hope you will think about what I said.

regards
Hi Fti,

Can you please elaborate more on what you have mentioned. Not sure where the rigidity is. As mentioned by leighsww, the patterns mentioned are her feel of the market movement. I understand that confirmation = less flexibility = rigidity but surely we need some form of feel or confirmation of the market patterns before we enter the market.

Is like the legs that you mentioned - if there are no legs/waves or any form of patterns, will you still enter the market?

I think somehow we will all be affected by this flexibility or rigidity but to what extent as we all need some kind of confirmation before we feel that we can enter the market.

Your comments please. Thx.
  • #1,428
  • Feb 11, 2008 9:39pm Feb 11, 2008 9:39pm
Anyone play Chinese Chess here?I find it useful how we plan,attack and defend.
Attached Image
  • #1,429
  • Feb 11, 2008 11:32pm Feb 11, 2008 11:32pm
Quoting MickD
Hi All,

This is how I (roughly) see the math for Fti's attack sequence:

On entering troops -

Stage Enter: Total in battle:
A 1 scout = 1 unit
C 1x1 = 1 = 2 units in
E 2x2 = 4 = to get 4 units we add 2 for total of 4
attack 4x4 = 16 = in full scale attack now add 16 for total of 20

On taking profits -
Here he uses a simple reverse fib sequence to take profits and reduce exposure to the return leg and set up for the next wave.

last entry of troops was 16 so halve that to start at 8 (or the last entry was 4 plus 4 say) to give the starting fib number.

Does that sound right?
Hi MickD,

If you were encountering a difficult scouts positions the recovery mode takes over. The attack mode is invoked only when all is in + territory.

I removed the example post, as many like you may instead be looking for rigid MM and be lead astray.

The problem is that, the MM is never rigid, the fibo is the base possibility.(ie the mildest attack sequence)
If on 1st wave successfully taken, the next attack becomes aggressive. (Aggression can be invoked by jump sequences on the fibo) On 3rd wave attacks, it becomes subdued. In High volatility, the attack is also subdued, and vice versa. You have to understand that the dance dictates the stance of the attack, hence the change in aggression stance.


I hope you understand.

regards
  • #1,430
  • Edited Feb 12, 2008 12:39am Feb 11, 2008 11:44pm | Edited Feb 12, 2008 12:39am
Quoting sitoca
Hi Fti,

Can you please elaborate more on what you have mentioned. Not sure where the rigidity is. As mentioned by leighsww, the patterns mentioned are her feel of the market movement. I understand that confirmation = less flexibility = rigidity but surely we need some form of feel or confirmation of the market patterns before we enter the market.

Is like the legs that you mentioned - if there are no legs/waves or any form of patterns, will you still enter the market?

I think somehow we will all be affected by this flexibility or rigidity but to what extent as we all need some kind of confirmation before we feel that we can enter the market.

Your comments please. Thx.
Hi Sitoca,
Trading breakouts is a rigid methodology.
Waiting for confirmation of pattern development makes traders mindset rigid.
In the same, trading breakouts on the short charts is no different. Neither is trading breakout on bars.

"As Above so Below."

Rigidity may ease the traders needs for active analysis by defined rules but it impairs the trader to "feel" the development that is unfolding. The market is never ever the same, the waves of movement may look alike , but are never the same. Therefore nimbleness in methodology is paramount for long term success.

Quoting sitoca
we need some form of feel or confirmation of the market patterns before we enter the market.
The feel of form, you get from monitoring the developments in the market. and not by setting up rules of engagement.This will restrict your ability to "pull the trigger" (in as well as out)when required. When a market begins to ready itself for a trend attack, there is always more than 1 sign, in reality there are many signals being given, and these sets-up the many types of rigid player, cueing them to the event. When most parties are in the same direction, only the egos will be left to bear the pain of the attack. Then the victors sort themselves out by a mode of musical chairs games (sweeps), and weeding out the weak players. The players who are weakest amongst the victors are rigid players. These gets to "take home the head and tails " ( borrowed from David_Green, thanks). The more rigid the MO, the weaker the player. There is no skill.
This is the reason why machines, cannot be made good traders, as there will be one or more magic bullet that will take it out, depending on the rigidty its MO. Similarly , if traders mimic machines, they will ultimately share the same fate.

regards
  • #1,431
  • Feb 12, 2008 12:25am Feb 12, 2008 12:25am
Quoting amenlo9
Anyone play Chinese Chess here?I find it useful how we plan,attack and defend.
@ amenlo9,
thanks for bringing up the "xiang" chess board.

@ sitoca
Look at the board, can you identify the most versatile pieces and its strengths and weaknesses.
And can you identify the rigid pieces, and its strengths weaknesses.
Each piece is limited only by its ability.
The piece with the least limitations is the most useful.

refer thread #811

Sun Zi
""Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground
over which it flows;
the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.
Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions."

regards
  • #1,432
  • Feb 12, 2008 12:35am Feb 12, 2008 12:35am
Quoting fti
@ amenlo9,
thanks for bringing up the "xiang" chess board.

@ sitoca
Look at the board, can you identify the most versatile pieces and its strengths and weaknesses.
And can you identify the rigid pieces, and its strengths weaknesses.
Each piece is limited only by its ability.
The piece with the least limitations is the most useful.

refer thread #811

Sun Zi
""Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground
over which it flows;
the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.
Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions."

regards
Hi Fti,

Thanks for the reply and the chess pieces analogy. I think i think....I get what you mean.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in essence, we should learn to anticipate the possible market patterns that might be forming and then follow the market development to see if it realise?

In the past, how do you train the junior dealers to feel these market movement?
  • #1,433
  • Feb 12, 2008 1:39am Feb 12, 2008 1:39am
Quoting sitoca
Hi Fti,

Thanks for the reply and the chess pieces analogy. I think i think....I get what you mean.

Correct me if I'm wrong but in essence, we should learn to anticipate the possible market patterns that might be forming and then follow the market development to see if it realise?

In the past, how do you train the junior dealers to feel these market movement?
@ Sitoca,
In reality,pattern analysis can be done in less than 10 seconds. Its not the pattern thats critical, evey body can see that, its the way it behaves while its forming that clues the trader. ie volatility, activity and time splices, range etc. and from these one is to formulate correct response,by trial and error. When in error, rescue, and when correct, to "press".
All trading, MO,Mm strategies is not meant to manage the market, but the trader's mindset and his resources. Leave the market managing to the CB and tier 1 , they have their ways. The trader's task is to manage himself and his resources as best he can. Patterns can come, patterns may fail, it may mutate, but thats not important. What's important is , What the trader does to cope with the changing scenerios. Here his experience and nimbleness backed by sound MM would excel him.

Training of junior dealers is OT.
Basically , since I pay them, I give them my training lessons( as you can see here on this thread), I throw them into the deep end with trade limits and loss limits to abide by and observe their mindset and applitude. When they lose money, I butter them nicely and throw them back into the deep end again. Those that comes for buttering often are put on the out tray, while those that perform well are rewarded. Since I came from the ranks myself, I tend to try to save some who are at the fences. They are then put on a buddy system, with one senior. The less intelligent ones normally are able to perform much faster than the highly groomed, who normally takes a little longer to try to unlearn their old habits and egos, before they catch on.
Why do you ask?

regards
  • #1,434
  • Feb 12, 2008 2:03am Feb 12, 2008 2:03am
Quoting fti
@ Sitoca,
In reality,pattern analysis can be done in less than 10 seconds. Its not the pattern thats critical, evey body can see that, its the way it behaves while its forming that clues the trader. ie volatility, activity and time splices, range etc. and from these one is to formulate correct response,by trial and error. When in error, rescue, and when correct, to "press".
All trading, MO,Mm strategies is not meant to manage the market, but the trader's mindset and his resources. Leave the market managing to the CB and tier 1 , they have their ways. The trader's task is to manage himself and his resources as best he can. Patterns can come, patterns may fail, it may mutate, but thats not important. What's important is , What the trader does to cope with the changing scenerios. Here his experience and nimbleness backed by sound MM would excel him.

Training of junior dealers is OT.
Basically , since I pay them, I give them my training lessons( as you can see here on this thread), I throw them into the deep end with trade limits and loss limits to abide by and observe their mindset and applitude. When they lose money, I butter them nicely and throw them back into the deep end again. Those that comes for buttering often are put on the out tray, while those that perform well are rewarded. Since I came from the ranks myself, I tend to try to save some who are at the fences. They are then put on a buddy system, with one senior. The less intelligent ones normally are able to perform much faster than the highly groomed, who normally takes a little longer to try to unlearn their old habits and egos, before they catch on.
Why do you ask?

regards
Hi Fti,

I ask because I have a hard time coming up with a plan to learn how to feel the market movement. Looking at your reply, I guess the only way to learn is via trial and error, learn from the experience to dance with the markets.

I have a tough time coming up with a trading plan because you are the first trader I encounter that doesn't advocate some sort of system entry/exit requirements but rely mostly on instinct/feel to read the market. Maybe its just me but I cannot quantify it into a scientific method to learn.

As you said,

"Patterns can come, patterns may fail, it may mutate, but thats not important. What's important is , What the trader does to cope with the changing scenerios. Here his experience and nimbleness backed by sound MM would excel him."

thus I believe its similar to sports in that the more you practise and play the better one gets.

Another problem that I anticipate is the lost in confidence after a series of losses. How does one keep going using your MO since its mainly base on experience and feel? I personally know that once I lost my confidence, pulling the trigger is hard especially without some sort of rigid methodology.
  • #1,435
  • Feb 12, 2008 3:12am Feb 12, 2008 3:12am
Oh wow, I didn't realize I was still trading really rigid, lol :

Okay, I will practice to be less rigid then . However, can you please post your example sequence again? It was an excellent example and I'm sure many of us would like to study and practice it.

Even when I did the ride alongs with you, I obviously didn't quite get down how your sequence was being conducted, lol, and you were probably showing me a very elementary and conservative one based on my being undercapitalized to be able to trade like you, but the example sequence you posted was really fascinating. It will help us to be better dancers, too.
  • #1,436
  • Feb 12, 2008 6:14am Feb 12, 2008 6:14am
Quoting fti
Hi Sitoca,
Trading breakouts is a rigid methodology.
Waiting for confirmation of pattern development makes traders mindset rigid.
In the same, trading breakouts on the short charts is no different. Neither is trading breakout on bars.

"As Above so Below."

Rigidity may ease the traders needs for active analysis by defined rules but it impairs the trader to "feel" the development that is unfolding. The market is never ever the same, the waves of movement may look alike , but are never the same. Therefore nimbleness in methodology is paramount for long term success.

The feel of form, you get from monitoring the developments in the market. and not by setting up rules of engagement.This will restrict your ability to "pull the trigger" (in as well as out)when required. When a market begins to ready itself for a trend attack, there is always more than 1 sign, in reality there are many signals being given, and these sets-up the many types of rigid player, cueing them to the event. When most parties are in the same direction, only the egos will be left to bear the pain of the attack. Then the victors sort themselves out by a mode of musical chairs games (sweeps), and weeding out the weak players. The players who are weakest amongst the victors are rigid players. These gets to "take home the head and tails " ( borrowed from David_Green, thanks). The more rigid the MO, the weaker the player. There is no skill.
This is the reason why machines, cannot be made good traders, as there will be one or more magic bullet that will take it out, depending on the rigidty its MO. Similarly , if traders mimic machines, they will ultimately share the same fate.

regards
Hi fti

What do you mean by "As above so Below"? You have mentioned it before and I'm not sure I get it.

Also, can you please clarify why you analyse the daily? Does that not introduce rigidity?

You mentioned the following in this post http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...en#post1756217

"I don't trade mainly on 5 min, I start there. If reading smooth I stay otherwise I change partners. I analyst daily charts then go in at 5 min and I will dance for as long as she dance well, by the time I dance to daily chart, I leave small boy to dance with her."
  • #1,437
  • Feb 12, 2008 7:51am Feb 12, 2008 7:51am
Quoting fti
Greed, Mercy and YOU.

Try to decipher it.

I am not up to mark to explain.
Please get some experts to help on this.

Heed this advice, if you understand.
Disregard this at your own peril.

file is in 3 parts.

Good Fortune.
regards

PS: for those that cannot understand, I anm sorry that I am not able to help.
hehe...for those that know mandarin this is
观世音菩萨普门品
there are explanations here....in mandarin
http://www.fosss.org/brgq/fhj/books/0073.htm
  • #1,438
  • Feb 12, 2008 7:58am Feb 12, 2008 7:58am
Hi Digerati,

I suggest you read through the whole thread before you made such strong comments.

You are not only insulting the thread starter but all those who are trying to learn his way of trading.

Just because his history is incorrect or his spelling is atrocious : does not mean he doesn't know how to trade. The MO & MM is much more important than getting the historical facts right and we are here to learn to trade correctly to make money and not learn history.

Besides, think this has been corrected by someone else before.
  • #1,439
  • Feb 12, 2008 8:07am Feb 12, 2008 8:07am
Good stuff.
  • #1,440
  • Feb 12, 2008 8:42am Feb 12, 2008 8:42am
Quoting digerati
Good stuff.
Digerati, fti's thread is pretty long and complex. You said "good stuff." I wonder, are you a real speed reader? If you are not...teach us something? We are ready to learn from you.
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