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So tell me why this system wouldn't work 2 replies

Why trading system don't work

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 31, 2008 3:30am Jan 31, 2008 3:30am
Hi Folks !

Have you ever asked yourself why 95% of all traders are loosing their
money in the short or long term ?

Imagine you have zillions of monitors and state of the art hardware
in your office.

Every morning you wake up and take place in front of your
control panels which are similar to the ones in star treck and
want to make big bucks.

You are clever and have checked all systems on FF and have distilled
the essentials to one super duper trading system which is tailored very
special to your needs.

Now you watch your indicators and price action and after a short
time you see your first trade for the day.

All indicators confirm that it's a big home run and you go in with a
small portion of your account.
(Of course you are the king of money management)

But whats this; holy shit; price is heading up and suddenly stops
and turns against you as fast as a lightning.

What the heck is going on here you say to yourself.....

You bail out at break even or with a small gain if you are an
experienced and disciplined trader.

The other guys may be get stopped out or have no stop....

And this story goes on and on....

Well you may ask now why only 2-5 % of all traders make a load
of bucks every day ?

They tell you all they use no indicators.....

The truth is they even don't need a chart to make money !

Why ?

BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE PRICE IS GOING EVERY DAY ON EVERY
PAIR !!

SO ITS NOT STRANGE THAT ALL BIG INVESTMENT BANKS MAKE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS EVERY YEAR !!

Lets say the EUR/USD is at 1.4630 and our big boy knows that
offers are standing at 1.4670 he even can buy without having a chart
in front of him.....

If you have this information indicators are only a decoration to
colour up the black trading screen.....

It's only my 2 cents....

Darkstar is one of the guys who knows well whats going on behind the
curtain....

Read his posts and try to understand whats really going on !!

It's only a small path between success and failure..

Happy Trading

Bernhard
  • #2
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:15am Jan 31, 2008 6:15am
Quoting behof
BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE PRICE IS GOING EVERY DAY ON EVERY PAIR !!
I would rather say the opposite.
Those that makes money do so because they know that NOBODY know where the price is going...

Arctic4x
  • #3
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:24am Jan 31, 2008 6:24am
There are thousands of profitable systems but not usable

Usability is awesome thing
kiss the trend
  • #4
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:30am Jan 31, 2008 6:30am
  •  Rumi
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Student of forex trading | 44 Posts
Any there any particular thread/posts you recommend reading of Darkstar's?
  • #5
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:32am Jan 31, 2008 6:32am
even if you have a system most traders will ditch it as soon as it hits several losers in a row, trading is about self mastery learning patience and discipline, there are many systems that generate profit and have winning trades BUT there are no holy grails 100 percent systems, as far as bank traders go most of them dont even use charts because there jobs are so compartmentalized and focused they only do 1 specific thing for years and years that in itself is much more consistent that most traders out there who jump around, I would say most traders need a method of entry or an edge to enter a position testing that edge overtime and just focusing on that specific setup is a good way to go, even jesse livermore used support and resistance levels via the tap or price, you cant really compare yourself to an insitutional trader alot of them dont trade in the conventional sense ie using charts.
  • #6
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:39am Jan 31, 2008 6:39am
well i think there is some truth to this, in terms of big banks knowing where price is... there must be something like level2 that is used and we can see an order book to see where price is going!

The COTs system seems a good place to start.

Quoting behof
Hi Folks !

Have you ever asked yourself why 95% of all traders are loosing their
money in the short or long term ?

Imagine you have zillions of monitors and state of the art hardware
in your office.

Every morning you wake up and take place in front of your
control panels which are similar to the ones in star treck and
want to make big bucks.

You are clever and have checked all systems on FF and have distilled
the essentials to one super duper trading system which is tailored very
special to your needs.

Now you watch your indicators and price action and after a short
time you see your first trade for the day.

All indicators confirm that it's a big home run and you go in with a
small portion of your account.
(Of course you are the king of money management)

But whats this; holy shit; price is heading up and suddenly stops
and turns against you as fast as a lightning.

What the heck is going on here you say to yourself.....

You bail out at break even or with a small gain if you are an
experienced and disciplined trader.

The other guys may be get stopped out or have no stop....

And this story goes on and on....

Well you may ask now why only 2-5 % of all traders make a load
of bucks every day ?

They tell you all they use no indicators.....

The truth is they even don't need a chart to make money !

Why ?

BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE PRICE IS GOING EVERY DAY ON EVERY
PAIR !!

SO ITS NOT STRANGE THAT ALL BIG INVESTMENT BANKS MAKE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS EVERY YEAR !!

Lets say the EUR/USD is at 1.4630 and our big boy knows that
offers are standing at 1.4670 he even can buy without having a chart
in front of him.....

If you have this information indicators are only a decoration to
colour up the black trading screen.....

It's only my 2 cents....

Darkstar is one of the guys who knows well whats going on behind the
curtain....

Read his posts and try to understand whats really going on !!

It's only a small path between success and failure..

Happy Trading

Bernhard
  • #7
  • Jan 31, 2008 6:40am Jan 31, 2008 6:40am

Just want to add something..from somebody quote in this forum.. "u can flip a coin and trade with a good money management..and then win"..yet not mentioning about mentality..so it's not about the system at all..hmm i dont have a system..but maybe i have to say that i do have a methodology of how to trade this market.2 cents

  • #8
  • Jan 31, 2008 7:03am Jan 31, 2008 7:03am
Quoting parlenk

Just want to add something..from somebody quote in this forum.. "u can flip a coin and trade with a good money management..and then win"..yet not mentioning about mentality..so it's not about the system at all..hmm i dont have a system..but maybe i have to say that i do have a methodology of how to trade this market.2 cents


Many people give the "coin flip" quote, but I have never seen it backed up with any data.

Most great traders seem to agree that knowing when not to trade, and waiting for an ideal setup are both critical.

Those that aren't concerned with entry are usually trend trading long-term, have a wide stop, and are looking for a large move, so exact entry point is not critical. Still, be assured that their setups are more involved than waking up in the morning and flipping a coin.

Edit: Hey, my 1000th post!
  • #9
  • Jan 31, 2008 7:12am Jan 31, 2008 7:12am
your full of it. I work for jp morgan and out of curisoity did a search for "trading" and "trading systems" on our training central website low and behold theres a course there called Trend trading with technical indicators LOL
  • #10
  • Edited 7:42am Jan 31, 2008 7:16am | Edited 7:42am
We've heard and accepted that two different traders can trade the same system and get different results. The only way this can happen is if the system is not totally defined, leaving some parts to trader discretion.

The reason a trading system doesn't work is that you don't really have the whole system. It is not possible for a successful trader to tell you everything they do.

Their method is a result of everything they have learned and experienced as a trader.

This is why you have to come up with your own system. You may trade many systems until you get there, just make sure it's on demo or very small trades for a year or two.
  • #11
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:06am Jan 31, 2008 8:06am
Quoting blueruby
Many people give the "coin flip" quote, but I have never seen it backed up with any data.
Trade your way to financial freedom - Van K. Tharp, page 253.
Not sure if i can say it is "backed up with any data" but he say he have proven it and he tell how he did it.

Arctic4x
  • #12
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:28am Jan 31, 2008 8:28am
Quoting cryten
your full of it. I work for jp morgan and out of curisoity did a search for "trading" and "trading systems" on our training central website low and behold theres a course there called Trend trading with technical indicators LOL
So ??
Enter Signature
  • #13
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:33am Jan 31, 2008 8:33am
Quoting Arctic4x
Trade your way to financial freedom - Van K. Tharp, page 253.
Not sure if i can say it is "backed up with any data" but he say he have proven it and he tell how he did it.

Arctic4x
Artic...

Iknew i'd read it somewhere ..convincing enough argument for me and if your still not satisfied read ' Dirk gentlys hollistic detective agency' that will be enough to put you off the coin flip mentality...

Rye
  • #14
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:45am Jan 31, 2008 8:45am
Quoting behof
Hi Folks !

Have you ever asked yourself why 95% of all traders are loosing their
money in the short or long term ?




BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE PRICE IS GOING EVERY DAY ON EVERY
PAIR !!

SO ITS NOT STRANGE THAT ALL BIG INVESTMENT BANKS MAKE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS EVERY YEAR !!
I've asked myself how anyone can possibly know how many people lose their money.
I hear this 95% figure over and over. Where does it come from?
To determine that, every forex broker in the world would have to compute this information and dump it into a single data base.
Why would they do that?


Any bank, individual or any other entity who "knows where price is going every day on every single pair" is an idiot if they only make a few hundred million a year.

I could start with $10,000 and make that much if I had this information on "every single pair every day of the year".
  • #15
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:54am Jan 31, 2008 8:54am
Quoting daytrading
So ??
so what? I should post the system? I can't to take the course my department would be charged $250 so it needs signoff from my manager and as I'm not a trader at Jp Morgan would raise a few eyebrows!
  • #16
  • Jan 31, 2008 8:56am Jan 31, 2008 8:56am
Quoting billbss
I've asked myself how anyone can possibly know how many people lose their money.
I hear this 95% figure over and over. Where does it come from?
To determine that, every forex broker in the world would have to compute this information and dump it into a single data base.
Why would they do that?


Any bank, individual or any other entity who "knows where price is going every day on every single pair" is an idiot if they only make a few hundred million a year.

I could start with $10,000 and make that much if I had this information on "every single pair every day of the year".
yeah i agree i think someone came with that sentence and it stuck lol sometimes i hear it's 1 % or 2% and every noob, vet and harry think they know what the "big boys" are doing LOL
  • #17
  • Jan 31, 2008 9:03am Jan 31, 2008 9:03am
Quoting cryten
yeah i agree i think someone came with that sentence and it stuck lol sometimes i hear it's 1 % or 2% and every noob, vet and harry think they know what the "big boys" are doing LOL
And some of the big boys are loosing money too! Seemingly all the time as they just changed a whole room of traders in a bank in Germany last week.

Are you on holiday today, Cryten? 3-s's time!
  • #18
  • Jan 31, 2008 9:29am Jan 31, 2008 9:29am
Quoting cryten
so what? I should post the system? I can't to take the course my department would be charged $250 so it needs signoff from my manager and as I'm not a trader at Jp Morgan would raise a few eyebrows!
...so what you are saying is that if I would pay for the course and your time off, you would become a great trader and subsequently very wealthy?

The trading world is littered with "trading systems" - but not with decent traders. Does that say anything to you?

Ask how many of JP's top traders went on the course! Probably none because most of the traders on the floor used to work somwhere else before.

Never mind Cryten - if you ever get to the point where you can support yourself solely by trading, you know what I am talking about. No offence.

regards
Enter Signature
  • #19
  • Jan 31, 2008 9:41am Jan 31, 2008 9:41am
"ALL BIG INVESTMENT BANKS MAKE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS EVERY YEAR !!"

Many banks make most of their FX money servicing customers. In other words, they collect the spread and some may even front run.

I took a seminar with Van Tharp in 2002 and one of the participants said he had worked at a big bank for years. He said they made tons of money every year by filling customer orders, but that their trading dept lost money every year.

There is this myth going around (and I believed it at one time as well) that every institutional trader is great and makes money. It's not true. In any institution there are winners and losers. Just like in retail trading.
  • #20
  • Jan 31, 2008 9:55am Jan 31, 2008 9:55am
It's ironic that this thread is in the 'Trading Systems' forum
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