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What Is the Best Indicator?

  • #21
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:33am Jan 26, 2008 2:33am
Quoting Carrera
It is the other way arround, Candlesticks are formed by price movement then you see them on the charts. Of course when you see a candle forming, that is the accion of the buying and selling at that moment.
Thank you for the sanity check, Carrera. I was starting to wonder if I was the only person who spotted what appears to be a simple and entirely forgivable transposition error on the part of AmeriTrini. I'm guessing english isn't his first language and that's totally cool. Part of what makes FF so awesome is its global community.
Quoting AmeriTrini
you said it, you are too thick to comprehend what Im saying.
Ok, I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer so perhaps, as a 1KT, you would be so kind as to express yourself a little more clearly so we simple folk might benefit from your experience.
Quoting AmeriTrini
When was the last time you opened a chart and saw 1 candle? graphs show a bunch of candles which show the price action of a currency.
I've no idea how the "1 candle" comment has any relevance whatsoever to this discussion. I do agree with your comment I've highlighted in bold but that's not what you said in your earlier post.

Let's take another look at post #5 of this thread.
You said:
Quoting AmeriTrini
p.s.- candlesticks are not formed by price movement, but vice versa, the price movement, or if you prefer, the movement of price is formed by the candlesticks. On a graph.

best regards.
Now, I may be a dumbass but I do possess adequate reading comprehension skills. I've read this a dozen times trying to squeeze some sense out of it but it just keeps coming up dry. What are you trying to get across here? I would honestly like to know.
  • #22
  • Jan 26, 2008 3:12am Jan 26, 2008 3:12am
Quoting opie999
Thank you for the sanity check, Carrera. I was starting to wonder if I was the only person who spotted what appears to be a simple and entirely forgivable transposition error on the part of AmeriTrini. I'm guessing english isn't his first language and that's totally cool. Part of what makes FF so awesome is its global community.
Ok, I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer so perhaps, as a 1KT, you would be so kind as to express yourself a little more clearly so we simple folk might benefit from your experience.
I've no idea how the "1 candle" comment has any relevance whatsoever to this discussion. I do agree with your comment I've highlighted in bold but that's not what you said in your earlier post.

Let's take another look at post #5 of this thread.
You said:

Now, I may be a dumbass but I do possess adequate reading comprehension skills. I've read this a dozen times trying to squeeze some sense out of it but it just keeps coming up dry. What are you trying to get across here? I would honestly like to know.
why do you continue to bring up the 1KT issue? I may not know much english, but I do know the word JEALOUSY!!

I will answer your question, with a question.

What are the most reliable time frames?

Ill even give you the answer:

The longer time frames!

longer time frames are made up of many candles, which show the price action or the 'rhythm' that the currency flows in, a single candlestick can never show price action.

a single candle shows price, yes, but for a specific moment in time. I guess that you can say that when you sum up many of these 'moments', you get the price action of that currency.

So, this is why I say, that price action and not candles/bars is the only real time indicator.



btw, welcome to the club!
  • #23
  • Jan 26, 2008 3:40am Jan 26, 2008 3:40am
Quoting opie999
Candlesticks (and bars) are graphic representations of price action displayed on a chart.


By the time they are displayed the actions has already taken place. Thus, the best indicator will not be so much about what the chart is currently displaying but the interpretation of price behaviour around what it is diplaying.....trickish.

That is why we can give the same chart to two people and have two different results because of different perceptions of what the market will do next. This is acceptable because the market only offers buy or sell behaviour, otherwise there will be no market.

It is our ability to interpret price actions around patterns formed and at the right time that matters. Unfortunatelly what is genereally missing in most analysis is time factor - timing/observations of price behaviour around formed chart patterns. As we know there are time to buy and time to sell, and time to wait for market to open, and time to leave market when it closes. This explained why we may see on our chart an indicator showing buy, but when the actual period comes (session open) this may change simply because it is not time to buy.

In this same vain, that is why we may see a good strong sell or buy signal but soon disappeared shortly after market closes and hoping the trend may resume the next day. In most cases, the behaviour may have significantly changed by the time market opened the next day.

My best indicator therefore is correct interpretation of the behaviours of price around patterns formed on the chart at certain time of the day. Unfornately there are no symbols or measurements of showing how price will react to already formed pattern except to observed it yourself why the action is taking place.
  • #24
  • Jan 26, 2008 9:14am Jan 26, 2008 9:14am
Quoting AmeriTrini
why do you continue to bring up the 1KT issue? I may not know much english, but I do know the word JEALOUSY!!

I will answer your question, with a question.

What are the most reliable time frames?

Ill even give you the answer:

The longer time frames!

longer time frames are made up of many candles, which show the price action or the 'rhythm' that the currency flows in, a single candlestick can never show price action.

a single candle shows price, yes, but for a specific moment in time. I guess that you can say that when you sum up many of these 'moments', you get the price action of that currency.

So, this is why I say, that price action and not candles/bars is the only real time indicator.



btw, welcome to the club!

As a native English speaker I will conduct a public service and moderate this debate for you;
Unfortunately AmeriTrini it is you who is in the wrong regarding the nature of candlestick formations.
If I sound like a pompous git then good, I'm trying to. Alas I believe I will always be doomed to failure, in that department, in the face of the dreaded "1KT" virus.

Regards,

Ed.
  • #25
  • Jan 26, 2008 9:34am Jan 26, 2008 9:34am
There is only one indicator that really works precisely and perfectly all the time without any lag, but unfortunately it is not free.
It is the P&L of your open positions.
The whole secret of making money with trading is to pay this indicator the right amount to make your business profitable.
.Ubeee.
  • #26
  • Jan 26, 2008 11:35am Jan 26, 2008 11:35am
For me, it's gotta be horizontal levels of support/resistance.
  • #27
  • Jan 26, 2008 12:06pm Jan 26, 2008 12:06pm
Nothing is exactly in this market, but you could be profitable when you combine candlestick pattern formations with your indicators.

Candlestick show you when a trend is getting weak and a posible reversal is comming soon or a continuation of a strong move. When you add harmonic pattern recognicion or other technical indicators that you know well, then it is a good oportunity to make pips. Greed always f***K any good analysis that you had made.
  • #28
  • Jan 26, 2008 1:47pm Jan 26, 2008 1:47pm
Quoting Ted1983
As a native English speaker I will conduct a public service and moderate this debate for you;
Unfortunately AmeriTrini it is you who is in the wrong regarding the nature of candlestick formations.
If I sound like a pompous git then good, I'm trying to. Alas I believe I will always be doomed to failure, in that department, in the face of the dreaded "1KT" virus.

Regards,

Ed.
Thanks, Ted. I sincerely appreciate it but, for my part, the "debate" is finished.

When I run across a concept I don't fully understand, I tend to hammer away at it until I can make it my own. I truly thought, mistakenly as it turns out, I was being presented with something new. Oh well, the quest for knowledge is never ending.

I continue to study the intricacies of candlestick patterns as I think they contain 99% of the information needed to trade successfully. They reflect PA far more directly than indicators. In conjunction with little more than S/R lines and an eye on breaking news, I've enjoyed good results without the need of indicators. But that's me. Obviously there are traders who are very successful using indicators and I say more power to them!

1KT status doesn't confer any special powers or super-human trading abilities but it does (or should) confer a sense of responsibility. I see it as a BS filter. A means of helping us noobs (me in particular ) separate the wheat from the chaff when we ask questions or need advice. It's not 100% effective, of course, as evidenced by certain nonsensical comments scattered throughout the forum but I still find it helpful having a clue who has experience and who doesn't.


AmeriTrini, thank you for your efforts at clarifying your comments. I've got your number.
GL and GT.
  • #29
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:01pm Jan 26, 2008 2:01pm
The best "indicator" if you could only have one indicator for the rest of your trading life, is SMA 1.
  • #30
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:09pm Jan 26, 2008 2:09pm
Quoting opie999
1KT status doesn't confer any special powers or super-human trading abilities but it does (or should) confer a sense of responsibility. I see it as a BS filter. A means of helping us noobs (me in particular ) separate the wheat from the chaff when we ask questions or need advice. It's not 100% effective, of course, as evidenced by certain nonsensical comments scattered throughout the forum but I still find it helpful having a clue who has experience and who doesn't.
You are right, not 100% effective.

AmeriTrini doesnt fall into this category as can be observed by his postings in the cable thread. Example: <News about to be released in the next 10 minutes> AmeriTrini: GO LONG STAY LONG CABLE!!! IT IS AFTER HOLIDAY NEWS WILL BE GOOD!!!! <Cable drops 150 pips on perfect PB setup>

Not very responsible.
  • #31
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:13pm Jan 26, 2008 2:13pm
Quoting bobblong
You are right, not 100% effective.

AmeriTrini doesnt fall into this category as can be observed by his postings in the cable thread. Example: <News about to be released in the next 10 minutes> AmeriTrini: GO LONG STAY LONG CABLE!!! IT IS AFTER HOLIDAY NEWS WILL BE GOOD!!!! <Cable drops 150 pips on perfect PB setup>

Not very responsible.
please quote me correctly! when did I ever post that?
funny how you wrote the quote yourself and cant put the original quote!
  • #32
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:15pm Jan 26, 2008 2:15pm
well,

I gotta say.. I love it when everyone gets so fired up

indicators are basically the definition of lagging information, yes, but so are candlesticks. They represent historical price action, and unfortunately there is still a lag on the "historical" end of things.

that doesnt mean candlesticks or any other indicator for that matter does not work. you just have to figure out how to use them appropriately to fit your trading style.

even though I am definitely not a fan of indicators, because they do not make much sense from a logical stand point, I do not condemn them. for at one point in time people did make money with them and in many cases still are apart of certain trading strategies.

the present market price is the only "indicator" that does not lag. however, you cannot use price to predict price. you can use price with time, but not price all by itself. and as soon as you factor in time you again have a lagging indicator.

support and resistance is really the only thing that doesnt lag. for even though you have time and historical prices factored in there is still a buying opportunity present before the market price reaches the level where your order is to be open.

nevertheless, whether your trading strategy uses indicator "A" or "B" at the end of the day it really comes down to who can cut their losses faster and let their profits run farther...
  • #33
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:22pm Jan 26, 2008 2:22pm
Quoting Ted1983
As a native English speaker I will conduct a public service and moderate this debate for you;
Unfortunately AmeriTrini it is you who is in the wrong regarding the nature of candlestick formations.
If I sound like a pompous git then good, I'm trying to. Alas I believe I will always be doomed to failure, in that department, in the face of the dreaded "1KT" virus.

Regards,

Ed.
I dont take advice from people who believe that they are doomed to fail, thanks anyway though.
  • #34
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:22pm Jan 26, 2008 2:22pm
Quoting AmeriTrini
please quote me correctly! when did I ever post that?
funny how you wrote the quote yourself and cant put the original quote!

Quoting AmeriTrini
Quote:
Originally Posted by jets211990 http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Guys i enter my position long about 8 hours ago 9716 and iam long...its geting close to the fundamental what should i do?

leave it long!
Quoting AmeriTrini
retail sales will come better than expected!!, remember we just finished the holiday season.................
When you know nothing, it's best to say nothing Cable Thread, post #50138 + 50132
  • #35
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:25pm Jan 26, 2008 2:25pm
Thanks, Bob. It's often necessary to filter the filter.
  • #36
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:38pm Jan 26, 2008 2:38pm
Quoting bobblong
When you know nothing, it's best to say nothing Cable Thread, post #50138 + 50132
that was under the assumption that retail sales came out better than expected, now if it didnt come out better than expected, I hope that trader knew what to do. you really cant get on someone for being wrong, this is forex and you have to adjust to the unfolding situations, im sorry you dont know this.

im sure you never got all your calls perfect or else you wouldnt be here looking for calls, now would you.
  • #37
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:41pm Jan 26, 2008 2:41pm
Quoting opie999
Thanks, Bob. It's often necessary to filter the filter.

well it was nice having you as a member for a few hrs...........

I thought you would deserve it, but you proved to me that you dont.
  • #38
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:49pm Jan 26, 2008 2:49pm
Quoting AmeriTrini
that was under the assumption that retail sales came out better than expected, now if it didnt come out better than expected, I hope that trader knew what to do. you really cant get on someone for being wrong, this is forex and you have to adjust to the unfolding situations, im sorry you dont know this.

im sure you never got all your calls perfect or else you wouldnt be here looking for calls, now would you.

I dont look for calls nor do I make them. As I said before, when you know nothing and have a 1kt badge, it's best to say nothing when it comes to advice. I'm not on your case about being wrong, nor on your case at all. I'm done.
  • #39
  • Jan 26, 2008 2:52pm Jan 26, 2008 2:52pm
Quoting bobblong
I dont look for calls nor do I make them. As I said before, when you know nothing and have a 1kt badge, it's best to say nothing when it comes to advice. I'm not on your case about being wrong, nor on your case at all. I'm done.
so you are telling me that i have a 1KT badge and saying nonsense but then you say that you are not on my case! so which is it?

i would say that you are more confused than 1KTS, so thats why you are not one.

please use your brain for making pips, instead of making contradicting statements!
  • #40
  • Jan 26, 2008 3:07pm Jan 26, 2008 3:07pm
My best indicator is a super computer and it can process millions of bits of information a second, its my brain. We have all got one, and it works.

All lagging indicators, in my view are not worth the time of day, of course some people can use them and use them well. Break outs trend lines all good stuff, but they fail. Nothing works all the time, if it did we would all be stuffed as no one would want to play the opposite side.

Patterns can predict market turns to a couple of bars, I know because I use them and they rock. Doji, hammer,spinning tops at the end of my pattern .

I can increase my % winning trades by looking at price action and trading the best pattern formation, usually in the direction of the larger trend.

Indicators are good when used as part of a strategy, used in isolation they fail.


Smalldog2
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