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  • #61
  • Jan 20, 2008 9:51am Jan 20, 2008 9:51am
Quoting Baldi
It is always very interesting for me how FX professionals are educated by FX newbies demoing for some time, reading FX HOWTOs, free e-books, etc. It happens all the time. Please read a good post by Merlin which fully discribes the current situation (he wrote it in Nov 2007!!!):

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...9&postcount=21

How can somebody teaches them, professionals and "old" traders trading and psychology who has never risked a cent in the Forex? Oh yes, absolutely right, that "trading is an emotionless activity, and money is only an instrument for exchange and nothing more" but as long as you never tried in real, how do you know how will it affect you?
Good points Baldi. FXAnalytics is writing an excellent piece of work here. He's mentioned that there is more than one way to approach Forex and promised more installments on this in the future. It takes a good deal of time to produce concise, polished writing and I'm looking forward to more.

I'd like to see this thread locked between FXAnalytics writings and a companion thread opened for our questions and comments, similar to PeterFM's thread for noobs. That way FXAnalytics can continue his excellent work here, uninterrupted, and answer questions and comments as he sees fit in the companion thread.

Bill
  • #62
  • Jan 22, 2008 8:51am Jan 22, 2008 8:51am
Just to touch base...there is more in the works for the thread it's just a matter of getting it into the priority list. My FX writing is unfortunately the very last thing I do on the side and recently I've gotten much busier (and closer to getting my account re-launched; it is going to be a long road, but I'm looking forward to the next ten or fifteen years of trading.)

I have no problem with this discussion occuring in this thread; if you feel a companion thread for questions is a better choice we can do that too.

I hope to have the time to site down in the next week and continue to map the course to full time trading... beyond that we need to begin to look at the types of trading that will fit into those different roads to Rome and disect them.

If you're a Noob or an intermediate trader and have questions about your appraoch etc and are hesitant to post it shoot me a PM and I'll do my best to answer. I realize everyone is in different place in their trading life cycle and watching a thread like this develop this slow may not meet your needs. It might take me a day or two to get back but I'll do my best.

Having said that; don't be mad at me if you don't like the answer you get!
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #63
  • Jan 22, 2008 9:07pm Jan 22, 2008 9:07pm
Quoting Baldi
It is always very interesting for me how FX professionals are educated by FX newbies demoing for some time, reading FX HOWTOs, free e-books, etc. It happens all the time. Please read a good post by Merlin which fully discribes the current situation (he wrote it in Nov 2007!!!):

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...9&postcount=21
Very valid point. I have experienced the same thing in different fields not relating for trading. If I have come across as arrogant in relation to professional traders, I apologize. It is just exuberance and a confidence I have in myself, this is not the first money making activity I have taught myself.

Quoting Baldi
How can somebody teaches them, professionals and "old" traders trading and psychology who has never risked a cent in the Forex? Oh yes, absolutely right, that "trading is an emotionless activity, and money is only an instrument for exchange and nothing more" but as long as you never tried in real, how do you know how will it affect you?
You are totally correct, I don't "Really" know how I will react with a live account. Are there actual schools for Forex trading? Yes I'm serious. I mean with a degree or cert when you pass or is this a "School of Hard Knocks" degree?

Quoting Baldi
As we could see FX Genius activity, it was merely newstrading being in position for less then a minute. With market maker retail brokers you will not be able to do this in live account, if you can, then after making $300 to about $3000-5000 they will kick you out or put you to manual execution. You could do it at a real ECN, but there spreads are changing too fast after news, and you will be badly filled about half of the time. Besides newstrading is not always 100% countable, there are lot of time when there is old data revisions, incorrect news (updated after some seconds or minutes), other crosses, oil, bonds or something affects your pair (eg. USD/JPY affects GBP/JPY just as two days before at UK retail sales - it came back within an hour), etc, but I think FX Genius has already experienced it in his demo account.
Actually, I am not trading news, I'm trading the run after the news when the spread drops or a solid trend run. I'm not going to get into my "trading system" here.

Quoting Baldi
I think that FX Genius and other newbies should be a bit more HUMBLE (at least to the experienced ones not to an average or below average live account trader like me) until they can show up some experience in live account (more than 3 months in live as more than 90% lost ALL their money after 3 months in FOREX irrespectively how much they demoed - but of course this is also not a new information to any newbie because they have red it in free or not free FX books : ).
Sorry, I don't do humble. But that doesn't mean I don't respect those who have been trading live or even making a living at it. Yes, you are right about most noob's not making it to 3 months or more because they try a demo that isn't even close to what they will really open, try to trade like they did in the demo and ^Poof^, money's gone. My demo's are just as I will be starting my account.

Quoting Baldi
Otherwise it seems to me FX Genius has never made 300 to 100k in one year, maybe he had some good months with a demo account that was not burnt in weeks or days. If FX Genius could prove it - even on demo account - in 3 years in a row that he could make 300 to 100K in a year, I would take him really seriously.
One day I hope to earn your respect Baldi, but I'm not going to be demoing for 3 years. I'm down to 2-3 brokers and demoing them, if I like them I will be going live. Maybe I will start a journal here on FF so those interested can see the results and possible forex foibles.
  • #64
  • Jan 26, 2008 7:59pm Jan 26, 2008 7:59pm
Maybe you are planing on bringing the "T" word into this discussion at a later time, if not maybe it would be good to discuss (gasp!) Tax's. In reviewing my $300 to 100K plan, I had not taken into account that tax's on the gains would need to be paid quarterly and the impact it would have. I am looking forward to your next posting.
  • #65
  • Jan 27, 2008 3:10pm Jan 27, 2008 3:10pm
I have started a journal, the link is below.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=67270
  • #66
  • Feb 6, 2008 7:33pm Feb 6, 2008 7:33pm
Well gang, I apologize for the extended gap in posting here... after giving all of this a lot of thought I'm probably going to be easing back into the retail side of FX while I also get my trading back up and going... FF has some pretty strict rules about being an active member if you have "services"...

Because I don't know exactly what I'm doing yet and haven't yet talked to Merlin about all of this, I will likely not be updating this thread further.

I surely do appreciate all the input and interest.

Best regards,

John
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #67
  • Feb 6, 2008 7:59pm Feb 6, 2008 7:59pm
John,

While I must admit a feeling of loss because you are stepping down from continuing this thread. I can only hope someone else can step in and attempt to fill the void.

Thank you for your contributions, insight and shared knowledge of forex.



May your endeavors be profitable.

Fx_Genius

  • #68
  • Feb 7, 2008 5:10pm Feb 7, 2008 5:10pm
Quoting FXAnalytics
Well gang, I apologize for the extended gap in posting here... after giving all of this a lot of thought I'm probably going to be easing back into the retail side of FX while I also get my trading back up and going... FF has some pretty strict rules about being an active member if you have "services"...

Because I don't know exactly what I'm doing yet and haven't yet talked to Merlin about all of this, I will likely not be updating this thread further.

I surely do appreciate all the input and interest.

Best regards,

John
Oh, that's too bad, just when you were getting to the very point. Hope you'll change your mind and make at least one post on the way to go as per your thoughts and preferences. Anyhow, thanks a lot.

Best,

jaykay
  • #69
  • Feb 7, 2008 6:26pm Feb 7, 2008 6:26pm
Quoting FXAnalytics
FF has some pretty strict rules about being an active member if you have "services"...
I wouldn't fret it. There are many on here who manage accounts, are CTAs, or otherwise. You're not actually pitching or selling anything, nor do any of your posts violate any rules. I think you're jumping to conclusions. The mods would certainly welcome more industry professionals.
  • #70
  • Feb 7, 2008 10:26pm Feb 7, 2008 10:26pm
Quoting Trader KGB
I wouldn't fret it. There are many on here who manage accounts, are CTAs, or otherwise. You're not actually pitching or selling anything, nor do any of your posts violate any rules. I think you're jumping to conclusions. The mods would certainly welcome more industry professionals.
I'll get a pm off to merlin and explain what I have in mind and will let him decide what the bounderies should be... Hopefully, as you say, we can continue on with what we are doing.
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #71
  • Feb 7, 2008 10:38pm Feb 7, 2008 10:38pm
Well... I tried to PM Merlin, but it won't allow me to do it, so... I'm not sure who I should ask... Anyone know?
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #72
  • Feb 8, 2008 7:15am Feb 8, 2008 7:15am
Quoting FXAnalytics
Well... I tried to PM Merlin, but it won't allow me to do it, so... I'm not sure who I should ask... Anyone know?
PM Twee, all of the other guys have hung up their hats.
  • #73
  • Feb 10, 2008 5:22am Feb 10, 2008 5:22am
Quoting FXCapitalist
This is what i call a great read
Exactly..
  • #74
  • Mar 15, 2008 3:33pm Mar 15, 2008 3:33pm
u are guru
  • #75
  • Mar 15, 2008 7:33pm Mar 15, 2008 7:33pm
Hi FXAnalytics,
You will have to excuse me as I didn't read ALL the thread just your posts and a few others. I may be too much of a newb to even open my mouth here but I do want to know if you are just generalizing when you say that you are really great when you make 9.something% a month? Did I read your thread right?

I just wonder because I live in Jamaica and trading is going off like rockets all over the place here. There are several companies/individuals that offer between 7 and 20% per month on you capital with rollover.

I know it works because I personally have 25k split between two different ones that give 7-8% and one a solid 10% a month.

I guess if it were from statistics of all traders it would be a little skewed since what it is, 10% of traders are successful? so does that means you are bundling the 90% unsuccessful traders with the 10% successful ones to come up with this 9.X%?

Please don't think I'm trying to challenge you or anything...I just want to understand what you are saying.

I would agree that trading is no easy task, I have been through a lot the last 4 months and just now finding something that works. but it's just too early to tell. Just crossing my fingers that I managed to stumble onto something.
The ForEx giveth and the ForEx taketh away. (more taketh than giveth).
  • #76
  • Mar 18, 2008 4:44pm Mar 18, 2008 4:44pm
Quoting Fx_Genius
All this talk about not being able to make money in forex makes me want to sell flowers on a street corner for a living!

Really, if a great trader is only making 2% +/- 1% a year, why do it? I understand the points being made here and I don't buy into the "Make Millions in 3 Days" mentality. But could someone explain why it is not possible to turn $300 into $100k in a year? I may be a "Noob" but this doesn't mean that I have not done my due diligence in MM, Risk and a solid trading system that has been worked to death in demo accounts, read every book I could get my hands on and spent hours going over forums, charts and a truck load of back data.

I will keep this thread updated as my trading progresses.
Or maybe I'll just take over the world....

Pinky: Gee, Brain, what are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!
Once in profit with initial balance. Say 10k or 5k mini account. Why not blow the rest of high risk trading? I see this is worth while but not if it means insane trading risks. Don't throw it away, I agree with you! And others that post here. Risk is what FX is all about! Without risk FX would be flat. There is more chance to do what mysticgenie has done in my opinion - takes risks when you know the possibilities and probabilities are more in your favour even if it means high risk, just don't abandon your normal analysis and trade styles.More chance of becoming full time trader this way if it is not your primary trade style. If successful and you know when to stop (you're not gambler are you?) withdraw profits again every tripled amount after you already withdrew first 50% profit and 100% profit of ab. Just my 2cents, worthless in my currency....
  • #77
  • Mar 18, 2008 4:52pm Mar 18, 2008 4:52pm
Fx_Genius

As for tax - trade offshore in mid east or anywhere with no capital gains tax? That may work but it is controversial so talk with a tax lawyer in private about your options of incorporating offshore or getting citizenship there. Many corporations in the USA and Europe already do this and government's are happy. Or they would be shut down, no doubt.

Trade at your own risk, avoid tax at your own risk but don't evade it.
  • #78
  • Edited 9:18am Mar 22, 2008 8:42am | Edited 9:18am
Quote
The Turtle Story:
In mid-1983 famous commodities trader Richard Dennis was having an ongoing dispute with his long-time friend Bill Eckhardt about whether great traders were born or made. Richard believed that he could teach people to become great traders. Bill thought that genetics was the determining factor.

In order to settle the matter, Richard suggested that they recruit and train some traders and give them actual accounts to trade to see which one of them was correct.

They took out a large ad advertising positions for trading apprentices in Barron’s, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. The ad stated that after a brief training session, the trainees would be supplied with an account to trade.

This group was culled to 10 which became 13 after Rich added three people he already knew to the list. They were invited to Chicago and trained for two weeks at the end of December, 1983. They began trading small accounts at the beginning of January. After they proved themselves, Dennis funded most of the trainees with $1 million in February.

“The students were called the ‘Turtles.’ (Mr. Dennis, who says he had just returned from Asia when he started the program, explains that he described it to someone by saying, ‘We are going to grow traders just like they grow turtles in Singapore.’)” – Stanley W. Angrist, Wall Street Journal 09/05/1989

 The Turtles became the most famous experiment in trading history because over the next four years, they earned an average annual compound rate of return of 80%.

Rich proved that with a simple set of rules, he could take people with little or no trading experience and make them excellent traders.
I like this true story, it shows how people off the street with no experience can become successful traders if they want to be. And are capable of following rules. Billions were made....


I don't think trading strategies are as vulnerable to not working if people know about them, as most traders believe. If what you are doing is right, it will work even if people have a general idea about it. I always say you could publish rules in a newspaper and no one would follow them. The key is consistency and discipline.
Richard Dennis

He was responsible for making everyday people into world renowned financial experts, financial fund managers, hedge traders, and pro forex traders that had no prior knowledge before they started!

It proves that mechanical trading works - so all Expert Advisors fail because of the strategies and not the automated process of trading, but lack of mechanical rules or useless strategy, or simply ignoring when not to trade. No Automated trading is necessary for the turtle method though.

As Richard Dennis says - trade rules are vital but unless you have the confidence in yourself to trade by the rules with consistency you are not a trader at all. I find I am most successful when I am 100% certain and confident in my actions when trading, these are the times I triple my account in one day, it may not happen often but it is worth it when it does.
  • #79
  • Jun 19, 2008 12:23pm Jun 19, 2008 12:23pm
more - more more - don't leave me hanging like this...

really good stuff.
  • #80
  • Oct 29, 2008 1:25pm Oct 29, 2008 1:25pm
We're blowing the dust off of this. I'll be back to start adding content here shortly. I've just got to re-read what I've written and decide where to pick back up.
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
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