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Money Managers - Looking for Currency Trading Positions

  • #41
  • Jan 16, 2008 12:26am Jan 16, 2008 12:26am
You're going after an extremely narrow job market. Most of these people look for you out of school, not the other way around. I just took a peek around efinancialcareers.com and the vast majority (9 out of 10) of the trading related jobs in my area are all for programmers and risk managers attached to them with a couple of various sales jobs in there as well. I have found three junior trader openings around D/FW in the past nine months, it's extremely limited (I would've had one too if I was in my last semester of school yet...damn and blast).

Best of luck to you of course, but do please try and be reasonable about it.
Never underestimate the powers of the Force.
  • #42
  • Jan 16, 2008 5:54pm Jan 16, 2008 5:54pm
Quoting dunningduke
I never meant to put you down acumen, but the qualifications that I laid down are pretty much standard requirements across the industry. That does not mean that you cannot find a position with a small hedge fund, or cannot meet a contact who'd be able to help you like that dude from the pursuit of happiness. Remember, out there, there are a ton of different trading roles... "trader" is a term used very loosely...some are market making and some are sales positions whereas others are what you think of when you think "trader" (as in prop).


If you want to make sure you get a great starting trading job with a top tier institution or hedge fund, a top school mba with solid academics will open all kinds of doors to you. While great personalities are sought after in investments and investment banking, many firms in the street or the city don't really care very much about that quality when hiring quants.
I appreciate everyone's replies. I sincerely do. Thanks dunningduke!!!
  • #43
  • Jan 16, 2008 5:58pm Jan 16, 2008 5:58pm
Quoting The Jedi
You're going after an extremely narrow job market. Most of these people look for you out of school, not the other way around. I just took a peek around efinancialcareers.com and the vast majority (9 out of 10) of the trading related jobs in my area are all for programmers and risk managers attached to them with a couple of various sales jobs in there as well. I have found three junior trader openings around D/FW in the past nine months, it's extremely limited (I would've had one too if I was in my last semester of school yet...damn and blast).

Best of luck to you of course, but do please try and be reasonable about it.
Thanks.

I have another issue. I'm 40 and I already make a very good salary so junior trader jobs wouldn't fly either.

Thanks
  • #44
  • Jan 16, 2008 8:03pm Jan 16, 2008 8:03pm
Quoting acumen
Advice needed.

How did you get started?

I'd like to attain a position as a trader for a hedge fund or bank.

If you manage other peoples money how would you start your search?

Thanks all.
Here , Read this thread
http://forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=65508

( and also see these 3 articles posted below )
read how they do it
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Subprime -1.doc   78 KB | 370 downloads
File Type: doc Subprime -2.doc   58 KB | 335 downloads
File Type: doc Subprime -3.doc   52 KB | 379 downloads
  • #45
  • Jan 21, 2008 1:10pm Jan 21, 2008 1:10pm
Quoting kermut
If you truly have something to offer, and have an edge, msg dominicanosrus (look him up using the search function). Pretty soon you will know yourself if you truly have an edge. LOL

Regards,
K.
Thank you kermut for that referral. LOL
  • #46
  • Edited 2:04pm Jan 21, 2008 1:42pm | Edited 2:04pm
I'd just say that earning the masters degree is a solid investment.... speculation on what "might be" or "could be" means you could end up with nothing in the end....

A degree, on the other hand, lets you stamp that MBA after your name, and it will be with you FOREVER. Your earning potential is greater, meaning more money to fund your account based on a higher salary.

Only 3% of all Americans have a graduate degree (or higher,) while 47% have a Bachelors. In the end, you might get lucky trading, or you might decide to be pragmatic (as I did.... and now I have a nice job with my MS)

Quoting acumen
So... I'll take the cash required to get a MBA and apply it to my trading account. Thanks for the reply.
  • #47
  • Jan 21, 2008 1:56pm Jan 21, 2008 1:56pm
Quoting acumen
So... I'll take the cash required to get a MBA and apply it to my trading account. Thanks for the reply.
My sentiments exactly!

Look; don't get me wrong here. I do value the importance of an education, but getting an MBA and going to an Ivy League school is a not a requirement of all institutions who allocate capital. I know because I'm part of a group that's in charge of making allocations to FX traders for a group of hedge funds and doing the due diligence on the same.

A top MBA graduate with no trading experience is useless to our group. We don't want to teach people how to trade. We want those who know how to trade already. We're also not interested in having a professional trader teach an MBA grad how to make money in the markets. We don't want clones. Diversity leads to a smoother equity curve; so it is crucial that applicants, whether void of impressive academic backgrounds or not already know how to trade themselves.

It's not that I have anything against extremely educated people. I've always been a fan of education; having graduated in the top of my class and obtained a university degree involving high level math; but reality is one thing and education is another. IMHO, no university is going to teach you how to become a good trader. Every trader that I work with feels the same way and these are guys on the front line - from quants to discretionary momentum traders.

So my biased advised is as follows...If your true passion is to trade forex because you already have a talent for it; rather than spending 4 to 5 years getting a Finance degree and getting brainwashed into believing that the Efficient Frontier and MPT deserve a Nobel Prize, trade your own account using the most execution friendly broker you can afford, and then use your verifiable statements to get the ball rolling. On the other hand, if you really haven't had any success trading or haven't traded live in your life, then go for that MBA or Finance degree. In the process, you might discover if trading is or isn’t for you - or when you graduate, you might get hired by one of those financial institutions that are into cloning (tasteless joke - sorry ).
  • #48
  • Jan 21, 2008 2:10pm Jan 21, 2008 2:10pm
Who is "your group?" A company? Can I see the website?

Quoting dominicanosrus
A top MBA graduate with no trading experience is useless to our group. We don't want to teach people how to trade. We want those who know how to trade already. We're also not interested in having a professional trader teach an MBA grad how to make money in the markets. We don't want clones. Diversity leads to a smoother equity curve; so it is crucial that applicants, whether void of impressive academic backgrounds or not already know how to trade themselves.
This thread is a real tearjerker about a kid that blew his college tuition on forex:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=62076

I will close by saying that college graduates tend to stick together, and hook each other up with cushy desk jobs. Non graduates might make more money (or less,) but sweat twice as hard and generally have less in common with the grads. It's really in your personality whether you'll pursue it or not.
  • #49
  • Jan 21, 2008 2:23pm Jan 21, 2008 2:23pm
Quoting tdion
Who is "your group?" A company? Can I see the website?

This thread is a real tearjerker about a kid that blew his college tuition on forex:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=62076

I will close by saying that college graduates tend to stick together, and hook each other up with cushy desk jobs. Non graduates might make more money (or less,) but sweat twice as hard and generally have less in common with the grads. It's really in your personality whether you'll pursue it or not.
tdion, we have a group of forex/trading websites. Even though they contain information about trader incubation/funding, the information is very general. We also have an NDA that a trader must sign before moving to the next level. This protects the identities and interests of all the parties involved and assures us that we're dealing with serious traders only - not just information brokers. You can ask around if you wish and you'll probably come accross someone who knows me. I'll also gladly answer any of your questions on the phone if you want to meet. By the way, we share similar backgrounds.

I do agree with you about college graduates sticking together, but I'm referring here to truly talented traders that just want to trade - not just get lost in a comfy desk job.
  • #50
  • Edited 3:23pm Jan 21, 2008 2:54pm | Edited 3:23pm
It's true, a Series 3 will not make you a better trader. Most of the questions on the exam have nothing to do with trading strategy - it is more about knowing regulations, how to sell the product or investment vehicle, and how to calculate profits, margins, etc. But what it does give you is a bit of legitimacy. Here in the EU, there's a movement now to allow the certification of one country to be accepted in all countries - though it is still very much up in the air.

If you can keep your trading results consistent, you'll start to attract the clients - there's lots of capital floating around out there looking for good management (especially now). And you can start by managing a couple accounts with a power-of-attorney as well, prior to moving to funds. The key is to build a track record, as others in this thread have said.

Good luck,

-=BK
fxKnight.com
  • #51
  • Edited 3:23pm Jan 21, 2008 3:10pm | Edited 3:23pm
This guys the real thing.

If you want to trade for a living he will give you a chance.

He's a straightforward, sincere guy.

m
  • #52
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:19pm Jan 21, 2008 3:19pm
They don't like spam around here.... especially with only 2 posts.... I'd delete my signature if I were you....

Quoting Black_Knight
Good luck,

-=Andrei Pehar
The "Black Knight"

http://www.fxknight.com/img/logo_s.jpg
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Putting you ahead of the game.

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  • #53
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:19pm Jan 21, 2008 3:19pm
Quoting tdion
I'd just say that earning the masters degree is a solid investment.... speculation on what "might be" or "could be" means you could end up with nothing in the end....

A degree, on the other hand, lets you stamp that MBA after your name, and it will be with you FOREVER. Your earning potential is greater, meaning more money to fund your account based on a higher salary.

Only 3% of all Americans have a graduate degree (or higher,) while 47% have a Bachelors. In the end, you might get lucky trading, or you might decide to be pragmatic (as I did.... and now I have a nice job with my MS)
Hello tdion,

I agree that a Masters is a good investment but...

I'm a software engineer.

I earn a very good living but I'm passionate about trading.

I suppose everyone's situation is different but If you skilled enough to win why not take those 2 years (and cash) and turn them into a nice profit?
  • #54
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:25pm Jan 21, 2008 3:25pm
Quoting tdion
They don't like spam around here.... especially with only 2 posts.... I'd delete my signature if I were you....
Thanks for the heads-up... didn't know. Gone.
  • #55
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:27pm Jan 21, 2008 3:27pm
Quoting acumen
Hello tdion,

I agree that a Masters is a good investment but...

I'm a software engineer.

I earn a very good living but I'm passionate about trading.

I suppose everyone's situation is different but If you skilled enough to win why not take those 2 years (and cash) and turn them into a nice profit?
Exactly. Everyone's situation is different. Whether we admit it or not, we're all brainwashed to some degree by society. Most believe that to succeed you need to go to college, graduate, and then get a job to start making the "big bucks." It all depends. In some cases, doing things in that order is a totally waste of time and money.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, acumen.
  • #56
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:29pm Jan 21, 2008 3:29pm
Quoting Black_Knight
It's true, a Series 3 will not make you a better trader. Most of the questions on the exam have nothing to do with trading strategy - it is more about knowing regulations, how to sell the product or investment vehicle, and how to calculate profits, margins, etc. But what it does give you is a bit of legitimacy. Here in the EU, there's a movement now to allow the certification of one country to be accepted in all countries - though it is still very much up in the air.

If you can keep your trading results consistent, you'll start to attract the clients - there's lots of capital floating around out there looking for good management (especially now). And you can start by managing a couple accounts with a power-of-attorney as well, prior to moving to funds. The key is to build a track record, as others in this thread have said.

Good luck,

-=BK
fxKnight.com
The series 3 is a joke, as are all government ("series X") exams. Whether the government forces you to take them or not to be "in the game" is another story!
  • #57
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:30pm Jan 21, 2008 3:30pm
Dude, my argument is simply this:

A graduate degree puts you in an elite 3% of the population. Being relatively young (40) you will have that MBA title for the rest of your life. It's a credential that will give you advantages for years to come, whereas jumping ship for a pie in the sky trading job leaves very little room for failure. Can you rationally weigh your risk with your reward, and judge accordingly?

Let's not forget that forex will be here the rest of your life too, with a stronger financial cushion from your "safe" job.

National economy and job security are important, are they not? So there is a window of opportunity to act or not, ultimately decided by you.

Quoting acumen
Hello tdion,

I agree that a Masters is a good investment but...

I'm a software engineer.

I earn a very good living but I'm passionate about trading.

I suppose everyone's situation is different but If you skilled enough to win why not take those 2 years (and cash) and turn them into a nice profit?
  • #58
  • Jan 21, 2008 3:32pm Jan 21, 2008 3:32pm
Quoting acumen
This guys the real thing.

If you want to trade for a living he will give you a chance.

He's a straightforward, sincere guy.

m
Thank you for your kind words. I think the difference is I make my money trading, so don't need to bleed other traders. I try and share what I've learned over the years, and I care about people and helping make a difference in their lives.

I didn't know there were rules regarding signatures - other forums where I post don't seem to mind. I'll respect the established protocol, no problem.

-=BK
fxKnight.com
  • #59
  • Jan 21, 2008 5:37pm Jan 21, 2008 5:37pm
Quoting tdion
Dude, my argument is simply this:

A graduate degree puts you in an elite 3% of the population. Being relatively young (40) you will have that MBA title for the rest of your life. It's a credential that will give you advantages for years to come, whereas jumping ship for a pie in the sky trading job leaves very little room for failure. Can you rationally weigh your risk with your reward, and judge accordingly?

Let's not forget that forex will be here the rest of your life too, with a stronger financial cushion from your "safe" job.

National economy and job security are important, are they not? So there is a window of opportunity to act or not, ultimately decided by you.
Your points are very valid.

Thanks.
  • #60
  • Jan 21, 2008 6:19pm Jan 21, 2008 6:19pm
Quoting tdion
Dude, my argument is simply this:

A graduate degree puts you in an elite 3% of the population. Being relatively young (40) you will have that MBA title for the rest of your life. It's a credential that will give you advantages for years to come, whereas jumping ship for a pie in the sky trading job leaves very little room for failure. Can you rationally weigh your risk with your reward, and judge accordingly?

Let's not forget that forex will be here the rest of your life too, with a stronger financial cushion from your "safe" job.

National economy and job security are important, are they not? So there is a window of opportunity to act or not, ultimately decided by you.
tdion, I agree with you completely; an MBA will give someone something to fall back on if they fail at trading - but I don't think people that want to become professional or instutional FX traders should rush out to earn an MBA with the hope that it will help them earn top trading positions. It won't.
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