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Nocturnal Fund Performance Thread

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 27, 2007 10:34pm Dec 27, 2007 10:34pm
Ok, so friends and family wants me to trade for them. I say ok sure. I love trading so much and love to see positive results, that I would do it for FREE. My reward comes from helping people's account grow and seeing their positive reactions.

So I was thinking that in the future I may do this for a living and maybe set up a real fund if I can show I'm good at this. In the meantime I'll do it for free but I need something to track my performance for future reference. Maybe I could get some forexfactorians to join in once they see results from this thread.

This is not a trade journal, more like a performance journal. So I'm not conveying any systems or post any trades or anything. Every 3 months, I would post my performance of the fund I have set up through FXManager with Oanda. I would write a report of what I have in the beginning plus profits,deposits,or withdrawals I made in that quarter (the report will include the trades I took). I am waiting to get answers on how to calculate true return since I do add to my account after big profits like it's my 401k .

So this is starting January 2008. First report will come around April.

So that's it, thanks for your time and happy new year!
  • #2
  • Dec 27, 2007 10:41pm Dec 27, 2007 10:41pm
Just details about the fund I set up with FXManager.

I have 4 funds

Small fund: Requires $500 minimum, trading EURUSD, USDCAD, NZDUSD, USDJPY

Medium fund: Requires $1000 minimum, trading ALL of the majors

Large Fund A and B: Requires $2000 minimum for each fund A and B. I trade a mix of ALL majors plus 'crosses' with 9 pairs in each (EURCHF, EURCAD, EURJPY, EURAUD, GBPJPY, GBPCHF, AUDJPY, CADJPY, CHFJPY, EURGBP, AUDNZD)

So the reports will be whatever fund my clients are in.
  • #3
  • Dec 28, 2007 12:40am Dec 28, 2007 12:40am
  •  w_z
  • | Joined Dec 2007 | Status: hand over them pips | 61 Posts
Sounds awesome.

Are you trading this out of a personal account? Or did you incorporate your operation?

I'm curious because I want to do the same thing in a few months.

W
  • #4
  • Dec 28, 2007 7:27am Dec 28, 2007 7:27am
Quoting w_z
Sounds awesome.

Are you trading this out of a personal account? Or did you incorporate your operation?

I'm curious because I want to do the same thing in a few months.

W
Not sure what you mean. I am trading with FXManager with my own FXTrade account. All those funds are set up like sub-accounts. I guess I am incorporating FXManager into my operation.
  • #5
  • Dec 28, 2007 9:48am Dec 28, 2007 9:48am
  •  w_z
  • | Joined Dec 2007 | Status: hand over them pips | 61 Posts
well no. sorry about not being clear. i meant setting up a corporation, separating the company from yourself. (so that you don't lose all your personal assets in case the fund goes under).

i read that someone from another forum paid 100k just for a lawyer to sign a piece of document and make his hedge fund legal. 100k is a large percentage of my account. i can't afford that right now.
  • #6
  • Dec 28, 2007 11:36am Dec 28, 2007 11:36am
Quoting w_z
well no. sorry about not being clear. i meant setting up a corporation, separating the company from yourself. (so that you don't lose all your personal assets in case the fund goes under).

i read that someone from another forum paid 100k just for a lawyer to sign a piece of document and make his hedge fund legal. 100k is a large percentage of my account. i can't afford that right now.
Well, ultimately I do want to run a fund in the future something of a hedge fund caliber. But that is something like 10-15 year down the road.

My goal right now is to just gain credibility as a trader and to gain a client pool to begin with (so my friends and family are my guinea pigs and they don't mind ). So with FXManager I can do that without the legal mumbo jumbo, although they do have to sign a Power of Attorney form in addition to other standard custormer Oanda agreements.That's as far legal as this will get. Like I said, I am doing this for free at this point to just get everything started. And as I go, I don't mind extending my service to outside clients as well

And also, I don't trade with a big account myself and don't expect to control huge sums of money until much later on. But once I do, then I will go to a certified company (like Green Trader Funds) who helps startup funds and register for an official lisence. And we'll go from there.
  • #7
  • Dec 29, 2007 1:23pm Dec 29, 2007 1:23pm
Dear Hilmy,
Let me just hijack your thread for a second to wish you all the possible success in this new endeavor you are starting!!

May the 2008 be your year!!

Matias Martinez
  • #8
  • Dec 30, 2007 7:27am Dec 30, 2007 7:27am
Quoting Matiasfx
Dear Hilmy,
Let me just hijack your thread for a second to wish you all the possible success in this new endeavor you are starting!!

May the 2008 be your year!!

Matias Martinez
gracias senior! (i'm thinking you're spanish by your name ). I know it's a HUGE goal but I believe in the the Chinese creed


"The person who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones"
  • #9
  • Dec 30, 2007 12:21pm Dec 30, 2007 12:21pm
Hilmy - Good Luck in your venture!

What is the difference between Large fund A & B? What are the expected return vs risk profiles of the 4 funds?

I suggest you provide monthly updates instead of quarterly.
  • #10
  • Dec 31, 2007 6:10am Dec 31, 2007 6:10am
Quoting w_z
well no. sorry about not being clear. i meant setting up a corporation, separating the company from yourself. (so that you don't lose all your personal assets in case the fund goes under).

i read that someone from another forum paid 100k just for a lawyer to sign a piece of document and make his hedge fund legal. 100k is a large percentage of my account. i can't afford that right now.

You may want to consider getting a partner to assist you. Your up in Canada and I do not know the incorporation laws, but here, a partner is needed for a Corporation. A partner is not needed for an LLC, but it is wise to have one. With an LLC, your taxed only once whereas a regular corporation, your double taxed. See if the laws are the same in Vancouver as they are here in the US.

Good Luck
  • #11
  • Dec 31, 2007 9:57am Dec 31, 2007 9:57am
Quoting JustLookin
Hilmy - Good Luck in your venture!

What is the difference between Large fund A & B? What are the expected return vs risk profiles of the 4 funds?

I suggest you provide monthly updates instead of quarterly.
The reason I am doing quarterly vs monthly progress is because I trade on the daily. And I don't think the results is enough from just a month-month. But I am open to that suggestion. We'll see.

The only difference between large fund A and B is that it trades different markets, 9 pairs in each.

As far as return vs risk profiles, I dont have that information. My trading history has shown have shown 5-15% every 3 months. But again I have only been trading for 1.5 years so it's nothing much to go by.

Keep in mind that I am trading for close friends and family. Sort of like my initial shareholders who pretty much taking this risk for whatever reward I can provide them. My initial investors at least know that I have more money than I started with and they all know what investing is and the risk the are undertaking. And knowing that I am trading my own funds along with them (I have the biggest account) assures them that we are all in this together.
  • #12
  • Dec 31, 2007 5:54pm Dec 31, 2007 5:54pm
Hilmy - I was thinking monthly because that is how most funds breakdown their performance. Obviously you'll want this info if and when you try and grow with more outside clients.

Now here is a question I didn't think of before, why 4 different funds? Did you in the past trade your money like it was 4 different accounts? If not, breaking your successful strategies into 4 funds may yield an undesirable risk/reward profile. 1 fund could be down 20% and the other 3 flat/up and they could mask the bad performer. Remember a smooth equity curve is more desirable than a choppy one. Or do you intend to keep the best and abandon the worst?

Anyway it is just a thought. Have a good New Years!
  • #13
  • Jan 1, 2008 12:53am Jan 1, 2008 12:53am
Quoting JustLookin
Hilmy - I was thinking monthly because that is how most funds breakdown their performance. Obviously you'll want this info if and when you try and grow with more outside clients.

Now here is a question I didn't think of before, why 4 different funds? Did you in the past trade your money like it was 4 different accounts? If not, breaking your successful strategies into 4 funds may yield an undesirable risk/reward profile. 1 fund could be down 20% and the other 3 flat/up and they could mask the bad performer. Remember a smooth equity curve is more desirable than a choppy one. Or do you intend to keep the best and abandon the worst?

Anyway it is just a thought. Have a good New Years!
Well my system is the same for all 4 funds. The only difference is the minimum balance required and the number of markets traded. I do this so that people can start small and have that balance be fairly distributed among the number of markets traded.

About the reports,I already tell my investors to expect mid-long term gains. So every quarter is what they should expect the gains. I also try to put info on futures commission merchant report and show where Oanda stands so they know how safe their money is, info on how I performed against market indexes , or vs other top mutual funds. It's a lot of stuff to bombard them with on monthly basis and I don't want to look like I'm spamming them. But we'll see..nothing is concrete yet since this is my first time running this
  • #14
  • Jan 1, 2008 9:20am Jan 1, 2008 9:20am
ok, I understand what you're doing now. Thanks for the answers. Good Luck in your trading.
  • #15
  • Jan 4, 2008 2:33pm Jan 4, 2008 2:33pm
Hi Hilmy83,
just saw your post on OANDA, and gave you 5* as a kind of welcome..., since I was aware you posted here ...

Just a couple of points, apologies if your already aware ..

You really need to charge a fee in my opinion, running the fund is serious bussiness and the reward aspect does inspire more performance. If your not ready to do this professionally, you should continue doing it in FXManager for FXGame in my opinion. Also, you can use that as an introduction to potential clients as to the returns they can anticipate.

Also, I don't know if your aware, but as I understand it, you need to be a CTA (pass your series 3, and pay annual dues of about $1500 ) if you have in excess of 15 clients or manage more than $250k. Suggests if you want to make a business out of it, you need at least $100k - say a 60% return, 20% performance fee = $12k, and that aint gonna pay your bar bill let alone the mortgage.... and believe me trading OPM, there's gonna be a bar bill. You really want to be planning as you are to become a CTA so you can scale up.

Good Trading to you
  • #16
  • Jan 4, 2008 3:06pm Jan 4, 2008 3:06pm
Quoting WhipSawFX
Hi Hilmy83,
just saw your post on OANDA, and gave you 5* as a kind of welcome..., since I was aware you posted here ...

Just a couple of points, apologies if your already aware ..

You really need to charge a fee in my opinion, running the fund is serious bussiness and the reward aspect does inspire more performance. If your not ready to do this professionally, you should continue doing it in FXManager for FXGame in my opinion. Also, you can use that as an introduction to potential clients as to the returns they can anticipate.

Also, I don't know if your aware, but as I understand it, you need to be a CTA (pass your series 3, and pay annual dues of about $1500 ) if you have in excess of 15 clients or manage more than $250k. Suggests if you want to make a business out of it, you need at least $100k - say a 60% return, 20% performance fee = $12k, and that aint gonna pay your bar bill let alone the mortgage.... and believe me trading OPM, there's gonna be a bar bill. You really want to be planning as you are to become a CTA so you can scale up.

Good Trading to you
Hey whipsawfx

I'm somewhat aware of some of the regulations when you start to manage bigger funds and more clients. But as of now, I am far from that point and I'm just getting questions answered while trading the funds I have in control.

I do plan to charge my clients in the future. But right now since I am not going to trade for a living for a while, so I have no need for cashflow. Once I get enough people and the funds are coming in, then I'll charge the commission and use that to take it to the next level by registering the funds, pay whatever fees I need to pay.

Until then I am more than happy just to see nocturnal fund making money. My commission is clients' positive feedback and their ability to market my experience to others. Then we can move on from there
  • #17
  • Edited 8:27am Jan 8, 2008 8:15am | Edited 8:27am
Just some updates on the funds.

So after some consideration, I am willing to post my performance apporximately every 2 weeks (the first one would be next week). This is an addition to the quarterly reports that I would give out as well.

I made a funky website for this purpose. You can also find basic info about the funds I am running and so forth.

If you would like to be on my mailing list so you can keep up with performance updates, quarterly reports, or just curious to see how I am doing, just PM me and I will add you.

ps. The only updates I will post on this thread is when I have a new quarter report. Everything else is on the website through the mailing list.

http://www.freewebs.com/nocturnalfund
  • #18
  • Jan 13, 2008 6:06pm Jan 13, 2008 6:06pm
Finally had some important updates on my funds performance. I decided to change the performance updates a little bit. I now realize it is important for people to know how their accounts might fluctuate intra month to see how volatile my style could be.

So this is the important update so far. The mailing list is not available until Monday or Tuesday of this week. I registered the account January 7th. I apologize for the inconvenience!

January 1 2008
http://www.freewebs.com/nocturnalfund/nulljan1-2008.bmp
As of January 13 2008
http://www.freewebs.com/nocturnalfund/jan13-2008.jpg
Small Fund: n/a *
Medium Fund: n/a *
Large Fund A: +9.61% change from last 2 weeks: n/a
Large Fund B: +0.29% change from last 2 weeks: n/a

Year-to-Date returns for various indexes (as of January 13 2008)
S&P 500 Index: -4.59%
Currency Traders Index: +2.54%
BTOP FX Index: +0.21%
  • #19
  • Jan 15, 2008 7:55am Jan 15, 2008 7:55am
I would like to invite FF to Muhammad Yunus' website. He received a nobel prize for pioneering the concept of microcredit loans. It is a type of loan that requires no collateral and it is aimed at promoting business ventures amongst the poor especially the women.

I strongly believe in this concept and I hope one day banks around the world will implement this. Poverty is the source of many society problems. With this we hope to alleviate those problems as well.

http://www.muhammadyunus.org/


Thank you.
  • #20
  • Jan 22, 2008 8:41am Jan 22, 2008 8:41am
Had some error, fixed it now. Next update would probably be this Sunday (27th)

Nocturnal Funds 2008 Year-to-Date Returns
January 1 2008
http://www.freewebs.com/nocturnalfund/jan1-2008.bmp
As of January 13 2008
http://www.freewebs.com/nocturnalfund/jan13-2008.bmp
Small Fund: n/a *
Medium Fund: n/a *
Large Fund A: +9.61% change from last 2 weeks: n/a
Large Fund B: +0.29% change from last 2 weeks: n/a

Year-to-Date returns for various indexes (as of January 13 2008)
S&P 500 Index: -4.59%
Currency Traders Index: +2.54%
BTOP FX Index: +0.21%
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