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- #22
- Dec 14, 2007 7:19pm Dec 14, 2007 7:19pm
- | Joined Feb 2007 | Status: Small is beautifull | 1,368 Posts
Come on, this is easy. He wants only 5%? So take his $100k, pocket $95k and give him back his 5% as soon as you can. That'll teach him!
It's a no brainer.
return some 2-15% a month for a few times, people will say it is a good investment, many start to follow, and then suddenly the show is over..... *poffff*
- #24
- Dec 14, 2007 7:28pm Dec 14, 2007 7:28pm
- Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Trade the reaction not the news! | 10,359 Posts
- #27
- Dec 15, 2007 6:56pm Dec 15, 2007 6:56pm
The key is to pick winners.I got clobbered recently on USDCAD, so I know waht you mean. 5% daily is a trick...a 10% here and there, affords me a day off or days with only 3%. I won't trade everyday, so it works out...
If you start with $20,000, and gain on average 5% a day, you will have nearly 100 MILLION in a year
- #31
- Dec 16, 2007 12:50pm Dec 16, 2007 12:50pm
- Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Trade the reaction not the news! | 10,359 Posts
- #32
- Dec 16, 2007 12:57pm Dec 16, 2007 12:57pm
- Joined Mar 2004 | Status: Magic Man | 3,220 Posts
Newbie = looks how easy it is to earn 5%
Experienced = looks at how easy it is to lose 5%
Relax and be happy.
- #33
- Dec 16, 2007 1:29pm Dec 16, 2007 1:29pm
- Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Trade the reaction not the news! | 10,359 Posts
The other criticism is funny - that we are trying to keep this trading thing to ourselves by discouraging the rest.
- #35
- Dec 16, 2007 4:02pm Dec 16, 2007 4:02pm
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Trader | 4,090 Posts
This is one of those no win arguments; people who have been actively trading for years either privately or professionaly know that 5% a month average return over the long haul simply can't be done... but you can't tell that to someone who "believes" it can be done and all it takes is dedication, commitment and a willingness to do whatever it takes attitude.
5% a month is unrealistic; if you do any serious research you'll find this to be true. If making less than 5% a month doesn't fit your trading goals (I want to trade full time, I want to retire early, I want to buy a Porsche next month), the problem isn't the return, its the intention.
Because someone said on an internet board that 5% a month is doable, does't mean it i... You have to dig into the available data (Barclay's CTA Index or Autumn Golds CTA Index) to really get a feel for what other traders are extracting from the market on a regular basis. Don't believe some guy who isn't willing to show you four or five years worth of trade statements, believe what you can actually see and quantify on your own. Use your good common sense and build a trade plan and goals that are reflective of what is actually taking place in the trading world, not what other people "believe" can be done.
If making 15% or 18% a year, in the good years, and 1 or 2% (or substantially worse) a year in the bad one, doesn't justify the effort or won't meet the monetary goal, than you need to look for a different approach to your financial targets...
If you're going to refute what I'm saying, you better do it with a three to five year trade statement; otherwise you're blowing smoke and selling pipe dreams and you have NO argument. Even IF you do have that data, it doesn't mean that you represent the average of "easy to acheive monthly profit"...
I really feel its time we all stop trying to convince others something can be done to fuel our own underlying desire: If I can get enough people to believe what I believe it must be true...
Oh well... I've been delivering this same speach since 2003... no body listens because it doesn't fit what they want...
I know no-body wants to hear this or will accept it but... How many times have you heard someone say, "If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can trade successfully..." Pleanty of times, right? You know what? They're RIGHT!!!!!
If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can be a brain surgeon, an electrical engineer and on and on... What nobody ever properly clarifies is what it actually takes. More often than not they follow that statement with some obscure (maybe even mystical) theory on the balance of model work to psychological effort, or to some zone or zen like process where all you have to do is think yourself successful. When was the last time someone successfully walked out of a blue coller job and simply thought themselve into a succesful surgeon? And if you're standing in the middle of a medical consort and one of the best heart doctors in the world tells you; If we do this procedure now there is a 95% chance your are going to die on the table and then your uncle fred who read a book on heart conditions written by Walt Disney jumps in and says... No way, there is only a 5% cance you're going to die... Who the hell are you going to believe?
Every person on this board has the power to be profitable in the market; but you have to come to terms with what it really means to be profitable as a trader... The reality is its 12 or 13 a year on aveage if you're really good, it's less if you not. Because that doesn't fit into your dreams doesn't mean its not reality.
NOW GET OUT THERE AND DO SOME REAL RESEARCH AND BUILD A RESONABLE EXPECTATION FOR YOUR TRADE EFFORTS...
If you want to be independantly wealthy from trading; build resonable expectations and learn to trade properly, then go out an manage money professionally. When you have $100mm in assets you'll make $2m a year in management fee's and that much or more in performance fees depending on the years performance...
Is there any one here that doesn't want to make $4m a year in income? Get your head on straight and get your goals aligned properly with the reality of the job that you want to do... There is no 5% a month, but there are millions of dollars waiting to be managed by people who can return good risk adjusted returns between 1 and 2% a month. And if you think that is easy all I have to say is... Really, prove it...
Sorry for the rant; I'm putting the soap box away now. Oh and for the record this wasn't directed at Mike... this same sentiment is echoed all over the FX world... I'm trying to reach a much bigger audience and this was just a good platform to jump off of... Sorry Mike
I dream, therefore I become.
- #36
- Last Post: Dec 26, 2007 8:16pm Dec 26, 2007 8:16pm
This is one of those no win arguments; people who have been actively trading for years either privately or professionaly know that 5% a month average return over the long haul simply can't be done... but you can't tell that to someone who "believes" it can be done and all it takes is dedication, commitment and a willingness to do whatever it takes attitude.
...........
Sorry for the rant; I'm putting the soap box away now. Oh and for the record this wasn't directed at Mike... this same sentiment is echoed all over the FX world... I'm trying to reach a much bigger audience and this was just a good platform to jump off of... Sorry Mike
Me too, as everybody, was in the camp of multiple 100s of % returns per year. Then I backed down & satisfied myself if I could make 5%/month. Right now I'm just looking for a 'buy-and-hold' return, leveraging it a bit and trying to avoid big drawdowns for a better risk-adjusted return.
I'm not trying to outguess the markets anymore; just looking to make buy&hold returns (or sell) and using a little bit of TA to get me out of the market when things turn ugly.
The difficulty is though, to determine the direction in which you want to Buy(Sell)&Hold
. With stocks its easy; but Forex is quite a different story.So I treat Forex as a nice diversification & leveraging tool for my Investment Portfolio as a whole (only reserve 15% of total portfolio to it).. not like some uber trading product to get me 5million in 10 years.