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Any effect with charting MT4 but executing trades with non-MT4 broker?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 13, 2007 11:00pm Dec 13, 2007 11:00pm
I have an account with an MT4 broker. I want to open live accounts with 2 brokers, neither of which uses MT4 (better spreads). I'd like to keep using MT4.

I was wondering if anyone gets their trade signals using MT4 indicators, then executing the trade on a non-MT4 platform. Is this recommended or discouraged? Care to share your experiences?

Thank you for your input
  • #2
  • Dec 13, 2007 11:36pm Dec 13, 2007 11:36pm
Many people do that very thing. I use several charting programs that my brokers don't provide. A lot of people here at FF use MT4 charting and do their live trading with Oanda. It makes it a little easier if you have more than one monitor but even that's not neccessary. You may see a little disparity between your charting package and your live broker's bid/ask but it shouldn't be more than a pip or two. Compare your MT4 charts and the bid/ask price with your tentative brokers. If you plan to trade the news compare them during announcements as well. As long as you're getting your charting package from a reputable broker and your live accounts are with equally reputable brokers you should be just fine.
  • #3
  • Dec 14, 2007 8:00am Dec 14, 2007 8:00am
I'm thinking that, because of GMT differences between brokers, chart patterns would look different.

So, if one is using MT4 demo account to do actual charting and gets (i.e.) "long" signal WITH trend, he would execute that trade on the non-MT4 broker platform and ignore that chart pattern which might actually show that he is going AGAINST the trend.

Sorry to sound so elementary, but I'd rather sound stupid and GET the answers from more experienced traders, than worry about my pride and learn the hard way . Thank you.
  • #4
  • Dec 14, 2007 8:16am Dec 14, 2007 8:16am
That's why billflet said to compare prices.

I have an MT4 demo with IBFX. When I compare prices with Oanda, sometimes there is a 4-5 pip difference.

As for trends, that can make a huge difference. I've seen IBFX in an uptrend on the 4H chart, and Oanda on a downtrend on their 3H chart!

Big difference.

So, compare the prices, trends, candle patterns, etc. between your MT4 broker and your other brokers before you decide to trade that way. Make sure you know the differences or it can cost you a lot of money.
  • #5
  • Dec 14, 2007 4:53pm Dec 14, 2007 4:53pm
I think he is talking about the candles being in different timezone format, which really is the problem with all the different charting software. 1 mt4, or any other charting software for that matter, has a 4hr candle that ends at gmt another ends at gmt+1, the candles actually close 1 hour different at a completely different price. There is no standard timezone, with mt4 the server side (ie broker) provides the candle time. If you want a specific timezone, look for that one.

This can actually make a big difference in trades as well, if you backtest a trade on the 4hr or greater with 1 timezone candle, you need to repeat the backtest with all timezones. I have posted backtest results before for a trade that resulted in over 8k pips with over a 65% win ratio at GMT+4, but less than 2k pips and a horrible ratio if you actually executed the trade in GMT time.
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. ~ Aristotle
  • #6
  • Dec 14, 2007 7:25pm Dec 14, 2007 7:25pm
That's it, Vensik;
Specifically, as an example, let's say I'm using a M/A cross method on 4H charts. On my original platform, I get a cross and it triggers a "buy" signal. But on my non-MT4 broker chart, it's nowhere near a cross and no signal at all. In fact, it looks like I would be buying against the trend (against my trading rules), instead of going with the trend, as intended by my MT4 signal. And then the 3rd broker is showing more of a long legged doji (indecision) and no cross.

My question is... What do people do? - (Price is within +/- 8 on all 3 brokers)

A) Go with the original signal given by MT4 charts and execute trades on the other 2 - ignoring their chart patterns

OR

B) Wait for the signal to occur on each platform independently, then enter trade when given the signal

I like MT4, know how to code indicators and am very comfortable with it. I like the non-MT4 brokers for a host of other benefits. Just want to see how other's handle that scenario. Thank You for participation.
  • #7
  • Dec 14, 2007 8:09pm Dec 14, 2007 8:09pm
Quoting freevey
I have an account with an MT4 broker. I want to open live accounts with 2 brokers, neither of which uses MT4 (better spreads). I'd like to keep using MT4.

I was wondering if anyone gets their trade signals using MT4 indicators, then executing the trade on a non-MT4 platform. Is this recommended or discouraged? Care to share your experiences?

Thank you for your input
i've been doing this. it can certainly be done. but if ur producing signals on 1M charts, forget it.
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  • #8
  • Dec 14, 2007 10:42pm Dec 14, 2007 10:42pm
I do it like this. My signals appear on my MCFX charts. Then I execute my trades with either Gain or Oanda. I don't pay any attention to the charts my brokers provide other than to compare current price. I do that as a matter of habit without even thinking about it. As long as my chart provider's prices are within a few pips of my brokers prices this works fine with my method of trading. To me it doesn't matter if the patterns or candles are exactly alike. I rely entirely on my MCFX charts to make my decisions. My brokers are only a vehicle to get me in and out.
  • #9
  • Dec 15, 2007 12:26pm Dec 15, 2007 12:26pm
I guess it's just hard, psychologically speaking / un-natural if you will, to just blindly enter a trade on a platform without consulting its charts. At least it feels that way. Takes getting used to.

I realized that this is exactly why there is so much confusion on so many "Trading Systems" threads where someone calls a "buy" on gbp/usd and rest of the people scramble because they don't have the same signal. Then they assume that they don't understand the system. Basically, the "trading system" is valid on all charts (in this case/thread, all broker platforms) and the "signal" will eventually come, albeit at different times for different people.

Hmmm... This topic might actually be very helpful to a lot of newbies (me) clear up the confusion with time-zone issues and why their charts are different.

Thank you, those who've posted so far. I hope others will share their experiences of how they handle cross-broker trades.
  • #10
  • Dec 16, 2007 11:35am Dec 16, 2007 11:35am
Quoting billflet
I do it like this. My signals appear on my MCFX charts. Then I execute my trades with either Gain or Oanda. I don't pay any attention to the charts my brokers provide other than to compare current price. I do that as a matter of habit without even thinking about it. As long as my chart provider's prices are within a few pips of my brokers prices this works fine with my method of trading. To me it doesn't matter if the patterns or candles are exactly alike. I rely entirely on my MCFX charts to make my decisions. My brokers are only a vehicle to get me in and out.
Wouldn't that cause you to lose a lot of trades?

I've seen my MT4 platform going my way for the system I was using and I would have placed an order. However, the trend was actually in the opposite direction on Oanda's charts! Which would mean an immediate loss if I placed an order with Oanda based on my MT4 charts.

I don't see how that could be a good thing at all. Since brokers' prices vary so much (and Oanda has that 3 hour thing instead of the standard 4 hour), not looking at the charts for the broker you're placing the order with could spell disaster.

Perhaps your system is "broker independent", but I don't see how that could work, given the varying prices between brokers.

I'd be interested in knowing how you do it, though.
  • #11
  • Dec 16, 2007 1:23pm Dec 16, 2007 1:23pm
Quoting In2Blues
Wouldn't that cause you to lose a lot of trades?

I've seen my MT4 platform going my way for the system I was using and I would have placed an order. However, the trend was actually in the opposite direction on Oanda's charts! Which would mean an immediate loss if I placed an order with Oanda based on my MT4 charts.

I don't see how that could be a good thing at all. Since brokers' prices vary so much (and Oanda has that 3 hour thing instead of the standard 4 hour), not looking at the charts for the broker you're placing the order with could spell disaster.

Perhaps your system is "broker independent", but I don't see how that could work, given the varying prices between brokers.

I'd be interested in knowing how you do it, though.
The prices shown on my MCFX charts and my eSignal charts are very close to the prices on my trading platforms. If my 4 hour chart gives me a signal at a certain price and the price at Oanda is the same, where is the problem?

Like I wrote earlier, you have to compare your chart provider's prices with your broker's to see that they are close. And do it at different times of the day and during different circumstances. If price breaks out on MCFX and eSignal, then it's likely breaking out in the market. It's been my experience that reliable charting packages are a good indication of what the market is doing at the present time. And a good brokers platform will be doing the same.

If you look at different brokers charts and all things are equal (time frame, number of candles shown) then the trends should look the same. I've never noticed what you mentioned--the trend going one way on one brokers chart and the opposite on Oanda's, but I'd welcome an example. Unless we have a different way of looking at trends. I'm not too troubled that Oanda's 3 hour chart doesn't look like someone else's 4 hour chart. It 's of no consequence to my trading.

If I get a buy signal on cable at 2.0166 on eSignal, then it's telling me to buy cable. If the Oanda price is 2.0165 or 2.0167 I will still buy cable with them. If I then get a reversal signal at 2.0210 on eSignal, I'll close regardless if Oanda's price is a pip or two off.

With most brokers you'll see a small disparity between the price on their charts and the price on their platform. We manage to live with that.
  • #12
  • Dec 16, 2007 8:13pm Dec 16, 2007 8:13pm
Yeah, I agree that you will not be losing trades just because 2 charting platforms look different.

Price is the important, and you could make yourself insane looking at different charts and brokers if you really wanted to.
In the long run, just maintain your edge, look at the charts you like, and trade with the broker you like. If Oanda's 5 second chart is saying sell, and my daily MT4 says go long... I'm going long and thru Oanda.
"Please sir, may I have some more pips?"
  • #13
  • Dec 17, 2007 10:30pm Dec 17, 2007 10:30pm
Quoting billflet
The prices shown on my MCFX charts and my eSignal charts are very close to the prices on my trading platforms. If my 4 hour chart gives me a signal at a certain price and the price at Oanda is the same, where is the problem?

Like I wrote earlier, you have to compare your chart provider's prices with your broker's to see that they are close. And do it at different times of the day and during different circumstances. If price breaks out on MCFX and eSignal, then it's likely breaking out in the market. It's been my experience that reliable charting packages are a good indication of what the market is doing at the present time. And a good brokers platform will be doing the same.

If you look at different brokers charts and all things are equal (time frame, number of candles shown) then the trends should look the same. I've never noticed what you mentioned--the trend going one way on one brokers chart and the opposite on Oanda's, but I'd welcome an example. Unless we have a different way of looking at trends. I'm not too troubled that Oanda's 3 hour chart doesn't look like someone else's 4 hour chart. It 's of no consequence to my trading.

If I get a buy signal on cable at 2.0166 on eSignal, then it's telling me to buy cable. If the Oanda price is 2.0165 or 2.0167 I will still buy cable with them. If I then get a reversal signal at 2.0210 on eSignal, I'll close regardless if Oanda's price is a pip or two off.

With most brokers you'll see a small disparity between the price on their charts and the price on their platform. We manage to live with that.
Thanks for the insight. I understand what you're saying and it's obvious that you've done your comparison homework.

As for the difference in trends, I was looking at a 6, 13 EMA cross system on a 4H chart. The trend was up on MT4 (IBFX) but down on Oanda. I know that Oanda is only 3 hours, not 4, but I've seen the same thing on daily charts.

Now, I will say that these were demo platforms at the time, so maybe that was the problem. Of course, it would make it difficult to test strategies with their demo charts if there is that kind of discrepancy, so I don't know why that would happen.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.
  • #14
  • Dec 17, 2007 11:37pm Dec 17, 2007 11:37pm
Quoting In2Blues
Thanks for the insight. I understand what you're saying and it's obvious that you've done your comparison homework.

As for the difference in trends, I was looking at a 6, 13 EMA cross system on a 4H chart. The trend was up on MT4 (IBFX) but down on Oanda. I know that Oanda is only 3 hours, not 4, but I've seen the same thing on daily charts.

Now, I will say that these were demo platforms at the time, so maybe that was the problem. Of course, it would make it difficult to test strategies with their demo charts if there is that kind of discrepancy, so I don't know why that would happen.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.
You clarified something for me too. When I say both charts are trending the same I'm looking at price only. I don't put any indicators on the Oanda or Gain charts. I rely on eSignal or MCFX to show me what the market is doing and that's where my indicators are. Putting indicators on both charts and hoping to get the same signals at the same time would be a disaster.

I think Freevey is trying to accomplish the same thing as me. He's found a broker he likes dealing with but isn't satisfied with their charting package.

I can actually get Gain's feed on eSignal and MCFX, along with other feeds. So if I trade with Gain everything is perfect. I've been using Oanda also because the price is close enough, the execution is fast and the spreads are good. I don't scalp often so a few pips disparity doesn't bother me.

I don't trade the open on Sunday. There might be potential for confusion there too.
  • #15
  • Dec 18, 2007 7:56am Dec 18, 2007 7:56am
Quoting billflet
You clarified something for me too. When I say both charts are trending the same I'm looking at price only. I don't put any indicators on the Oanda or Gain charts. I rely on eSignal or MCFX to show me what the market is doing and that's where my indicators are. Putting indicators on both charts and hoping to get the same signals at the same time would be a disaster.
Exactly, and that's where we got crossed. Trend based solely on price surely would be the same direction with all brokers (at least you'd think so ), but indicators vary widely. That's what I was talking about.

Quoting billflet
I don't scalp often so a few pips disparity doesn't bother me.
That makes sense.

Quoting billflet
I don't trade the open on Sunday. There might be potential for confusion there too.
No, I don't touch the Sunday open at all, either. My first trade is on Mondays.
  • #16
  • Dec 18, 2007 8:24pm Dec 18, 2007 8:24pm
That's what I was getting at, Billflet...

I trade an hourly system, looking for 20 pips at a time (small gains but very consistent - using good MM), with a tight S/L (12-14 pips). The other one is a Daily system which sits for days at a time.

The hourly method is not "on close of bar" type. Entry is made while it's moving. So going for 20 pips and switching to the other platform, where price difference might be off by 4-5 pips, could actually make a big difference in whether I enter the trade or not.

On the other hand, having a GBPJPY with 9 pip spread on MT4 (my charts), then executing the trade on broker platform with 4 pip GBPJPY could offset the price difference. Then the issue becomes (1) My MT4 broker has better prices than my non-MT4, but (2) spread is 5 pips higher. Isn't that a wash, or am I missing something. Then it comes down to - Am I just creating more work for myself?

This is why I started this thread. To bounce ideas and experiences of other traders on this subject. Thank you for any advice.
  • #17
  • Dec 18, 2007 9:36pm Dec 18, 2007 9:36pm
Quoting freevey

The hourly method is not "on close of bar" type. Entry is made while it's moving. So going for 20 pips and switching to the other platform, where price difference might be off by 4-5 pips, could actually make a big difference in whether I enter the trade or not.


On the other hand, having a GBPJPY with 9 pip spread on MT4 (my charts), then executing the trade on broker platform with 4 pip GBPJPY could offset the price difference. Then the issue becomes (1) My MT4 broker has better prices than my non-MT4, but (2) spread is 5 pips higher. Isn't that a wash, or am I missing something. Then it comes down to - Am I just creating more work for myself?
I'm not sure what you mean by better price. Do you mean:
..1) When you are ready to go long your MT-4 broker is always lower?
and
..2) When you are ready to go short your MT-4 broker is always higher?

The actual price shouldn't matter as long as the range of movement is the same. What I mean is this; If you buy 5 pips higher on the non MT-4 and the movement is the same on both charts, you should be selling 5 pips higher as well. That's where the wash should be. Then the tighter spread should be to your advantage. On your 1 hour system, going for 20 pips, the advantage of the cheaper spread should be significant over time.

Another thing to consider on your 1 hour system is execution time. I still have an account with an MT-4 broker and their execution time is poor and they give a lot of requotes. That could cost you a few trades if you're going for 20 pips.

It's not really any more work to trade this way, but having two computers or two monitors makes it a breeze. If you can watch your charting platform and your execution broker at the same time you'll lose that psychological hiccup that comes from only being able to see one at a time.


Bill
  • #18
  • Last Post: Dec 19, 2007 9:09am Dec 19, 2007 9:09am
By "better price" I mean...

1) "Long" signal on MT4 (my charts) at 1.2040 (9 spread) - (target 20 pips)
2) Same entry on my non-MT4 (live broker) would be at 1.2045 (4 spread)

So, using 2 standard lots and seeing a 5 pip price difference, subconsciously, automatically causes hesitation. But essentially, $$$-wise, this scenario is a wash. It's only the psychological issue that needs to be overcome. Right?

I know some people will say "why bother"!?! But having the bulk of my money in the most stable country and account in the most reliable currency (CHF) makes me sleep much better at night.

Somehow, nothing about US regulated brokers (NFA) makes me feel warm and fuzzy. What difference does it make if they are regulated when the currency (USD) is becoming 2nd rate and by the time you sue "them" and pay lawyers and waste time you could have spent making money trading, and you still end up a loser in the end. So, there is more to my thought process than just better spreads. I just feel better getting more confirmation from more experienced traders then me.
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