friend wants to leave 100k, for 5%, riskless profit. | Forex Factory

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friend wants to leave 100k, for 5%, riskless profit.

  • #1
  • First Post: Sep 11, 2007 11:16pm Sep 11, 2007 11:16pm
i was kinda shocked and confused when he said he wanted only 5%, under the condition that it was riskfree.

i told him buy bonds, but that wont do. bluechips wont do either.

so what are my options? i dont exactly have the state of the art triangular arbitrage available. i guess i could buy "baskets" and receive interests.

so if i made like 300% return with the 100k, i could keep the 295% and 5% would go to him...wth ???
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  • #2
  • Sep 11, 2007 11:52pm Sep 11, 2007 11:52pm
the only riskless return out there is tbills, and lucky for your friend they are around 5%
Relax and be happy.
  • #3
  • Sep 12, 2007 12:58am Sep 12, 2007 12:58am
i told him that. hes like "i dont want to wait a month i want my 5% very very fast."

should i be happy that i can control such money or just buy treasury bills for him lol and tell him i did some arbitrage. lol
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  • #4
  • Sep 12, 2007 1:31am Sep 12, 2007 1:31am
Once again let me tell you that there is no such thing as guaranteed profit in a short period of time, your friend's personality is what Mr. Michael Liew of PIPC wants!
  • #5
  • Sep 13, 2007 7:05pm Sep 13, 2007 7:05pm
Quoting 4x_Trader
Once again let me tell you that there is no such thing as guaranteed profit in a short period of time, your friend's personality is what Mr. Michael Liew of PIPC wants!
btw, im not familiar with the events PIPC....what happened? i heard lots of filipinos lost money in that scam.
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  • #6
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:05pm Dec 10, 2007 12:05pm
Quoting jjk2
i told him that. hes like "i dont want to wait a month i want my 5% very very fast."

should i be happy that i can control such money or just buy treasury bills for him lol and tell him i did some arbitrage. lol
He is misunderstanding the nature of the market... If he wants a 5% return very fast... say in one month; then what he is really asking for is the equivelent of a 60% annual return, which we all know requires real risk to achieve...

It's an odd request and your friendship will probably last longer if you honest with him and say its just not in your ability to do it.
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #7
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:11pm Dec 10, 2007 12:11pm
Quoting jjk2
i was kinda shocked and confused when he said he wanted only 5%, under the condition that it was riskfree.

i told him buy bonds, but that wont do. bluechips wont do either.

so what are my options? i dont exactly have the state of the art triangular arbitrage available. i guess i could buy "baskets" and receive interests.

so if i made like 300% return with the 100k, i could keep the 295% and 5% would go to him...wth ???
Come on, this is easy. He wants only 5%? So take his $100k, pocket $95k and give him back his 5% as soon as you can. That'll teach him!

It's a no brainer.
  • #8
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:15pm Dec 10, 2007 12:15pm
Quoting pipmaster
Come on, this is easy. He wants only 5%? So take his $100k, pocket $95k and give him back his 5% as soon as you can.

It's a no brainer.
LOL... thats about the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time... He is giving you 100k and asking you to "return" 5%... it really is a very simple thing.
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #9
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:27pm Dec 10, 2007 12:27pm
what is he referring to when he is saying very very fast ? 1 week? 1 month ?

5 % per month is really easy to achieve with low risk, 5 % per week requires a lot of risk
Twitter: @forexpokerpro
  • #10
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:40pm Dec 10, 2007 12:40pm
I aim for 5% a trading session. Today from Friday is currently 12%.

  • #11
  • Dec 10, 2007 1:08pm Dec 10, 2007 1:08pm
Do you know what a margin call is ??? If not, you will soon enough trading like that !!!


Quoting TIckerShuffl
I aim for 5% a trading session. Today from Friday is currently 12%.

  • #12
  • Dec 10, 2007 1:19pm Dec 10, 2007 1:19pm
The key is to pick winners. I got clobbered recently on USDCAD, so I know waht you mean. 5% daily is a trick...a 10% here and there, affords me a day off or days with only 3%. I won't trade everyday, so it works out...
  • #13
  • Dec 10, 2007 2:04pm Dec 10, 2007 2:04pm
Quoting BBPI_fxtrader
5 % per month is really easy to achieve with low risk, 5 % per week requires a lot of risk
Is it really?

If its so easy then why do so few people actually do it?
  • #14
  • Dec 10, 2007 3:36pm Dec 10, 2007 3:36pm
Quoting Aldente
Is it really?

If its so easy then why do so few people actually do it?
psychology

system = 20 %
psychology = 80 %

or something like that
also, money management plays an important role
and another thing, especially in forex: don't trade just to trade. wait for the best opportunity. for example last week i made 600 pips in one single day. after not trading like 3 days i believe. wait like a sniper, then when the opportunity arrives, shoot !
Twitter: @forexpokerpro
  • #15
  • Dec 10, 2007 5:14pm Dec 10, 2007 5:14pm
Quoting Aldente
Is it really?

If its so easy then why do so few people actually do it?
Because so many people don't take the time to learn. Instead, they want instant profits, which is unreal.
I dream, therefore I become.
  • #16
  • Dec 11, 2007 11:36am Dec 11, 2007 11:36am
Quoting mike w
Because so many people don't take the time to learn. Instead, they want instant profits, which is unreal.
This is one of those no win arguments; people who have been actively trading for years either privately or professionaly know that 5% a month average return over the long haul simply can't be done... but you can't tell that to someone who "believes" it can be done and all it takes is dedication, commitment and a willingness to do whatever it takes attitude.

5% a month is unrealistic; if you do any serious research you'll find this to be true. If making less than 5% a month doesn't fit your trading goals (I want to trade full time, I want to retire early, I want to buy a Porsche next month), the problem isn't the return, its the intention.

Because someone said on an internet board that 5% a month is doable, does't mean it i... You have to dig into the available data (Barclay's CTA Index or Autumn Golds CTA Index) to really get a feel for what other traders are extracting from the market on a regular basis. Don't believe some guy who isn't willing to show you four or five years worth of trade statements, believe what you can actually see and quantify on your own. Use your good common sense and build a trade plan and goals that are reflective of what is actually taking place in the trading world, not what other people "believe" can be done.

If making 15% or 18% a year, in the good years, and 1 or 2% (or substantially worse) a year in the bad one, doesn't justify the effort or won't meet the monetary goal, than you need to look for a different approach to your financial targets...

If you're going to refute what I'm saying, you better do it with a three to five year trade statement; otherwise you're blowing smoke and selling pipe dreams and you have NO argument. Even IF you do have that data, it doesn't mean that you represent the average of "easy to acheive monthly profit"...

I really feel its time we all stop trying to convince others something can be done to fuel our own underlying desire: If I can get enough people to believe what I believe it must be true...

Oh well... I've been delivering this same speach since 2003... no body listens because it doesn't fit what they want...

I know no-body wants to hear this or will accept it but... How many times have you heard someone say, "If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can trade successfully..." Pleanty of times, right? You know what? They're RIGHT!!!!!

If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can be a brain surgeon, an electrical engineer and on and on... What nobody ever properly clarifies is what it actually takes. More often than not they follow that statement with some obscure (maybe even mystical) theory on the balance of model work to psychological effort, or to some zone or zen like process where all you have to do is think yourself successful. When was the last time someone successfully walked out of a blue coller job and simply thought themselve into a succesful surgeon? And if you're standing in the middle of a medical consort and one of the best heart doctors in the world tells you; If we do this procedure now there is a 95% chance your are going to die on the table and then your uncle fred who read a book on heart conditions written by Walt Disney jumps in and says... No way, there is only a 5% cance you're going to die... Who the hell are you going to believe?

Every person on this board has the power to be profitable in the market; but you have to come to terms with what it really means to be profitable as a trader... The reality is its 12 or 13 a year on aveage if you're really good, it's less if you not. Because that doesn't fit into your dreams doesn't mean its not reality.

NOW GET OUT THERE AND DO SOME REAL RESEARCH AND BUILD A RESONABLE EXPECTATION FOR YOUR TRADE EFFORTS...

If you want to be independantly wealthy from trading; build resonable expectations and learn to trade properly, then go out an manage money professionally. When you have $100mm in assets you'll make $2m a year in management fee's and that much or more in performance fees depending on the years performance...

Is there any one here that doesn't want to make $4m a year in income? Get your head on straight and get your goals aligned properly with the reality of the job that you want to do... There is no 5% a month, but there are millions of dollars waiting to be managed by people who can return good risk adjusted returns between 1 and 2% a month. And if you think that is easy all I have to say is... Really, prove it...

Sorry for the rant; I'm putting the soap box away now. Oh and for the record this wasn't directed at Mike... this same sentiment is echoed all over the FX world... I'm trying to reach a much bigger audience and this was just a good platform to jump off of... Sorry Mike
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
  • #17
  • Dec 11, 2007 11:53am Dec 11, 2007 11:53am
One thing i want to tell you.Stay away. If u donot have any experience, i want to tell u i have lost my five demo account within 5 days. My friend who is living in india told me it's great market. Thanks god I first used demo. Demo is not just like live but good for practice. As ur title show u r a not much experienced, i would suggest invest money in mutual fund before start trading. Learn learn and learn......................
Only advise.
This is place of professional and beginners. Keep asking u will be answered.
There is no fix income in forex.
If u want to someone manage your fund then their trading record with maximum drawdown and profit factor.
Let's trade together.
  • #18
  • Dec 12, 2007 3:31am Dec 12, 2007 3:31am
Quoting FXAnalytics
This is one of those no win arguments; people who have been actively trading for years either privately or professionaly know that 5% a month average return over the long haul simply can't be done... but you can't tell that to someone who "believes" it can be done and all it takes is dedication, commitment and a willingness to do whatever it takes attitude.

5% a month is unrealistic; if you do any serious research you'll find this to be true. If making less than 5% a month doesn't fit your trading goals (I want to trade full time, I want to retire early, I want to buy a Porsche next month), the problem isn't the return, its the intention.

Because someone said on an internet board that 5% a month is doable, does't mean it i... You have to dig into the available data (Barclay's CTA Index or Autumn Golds CTA Index) to really get a feel for what other traders are extracting from the market on a regular basis. Don't believe some guy who isn't willing to show you four or five years worth of trade statements, believe what you can actually see and quantify on your own. Use your good common sense and build a trade plan and goals that are reflective of what is actually taking place in the trading world, not what other people "believe" can be done.

If making 15% or 18% a year, in the good years, and 1 or 2% (or substantially worse) a year in the bad one, doesn't justify the effort or won't meet the monetary goal, than you need to look for a different approach to your financial targets...

If you're going to refute what I'm saying, you better do it with a three to five year trade statement; otherwise you're blowing smoke and selling pipe dreams and you have NO argument. Even IF you do have that data, it doesn't mean that you represent the average of "easy to acheive monthly profit"...

I really feel its time we all stop trying to convince others something can be done to fuel our own underlying desire: If I can get enough people to believe what I believe it must be true...

Oh well... I've been delivering this same speach since 2003... no body listens because it doesn't fit what they want...

I know no-body wants to hear this or will accept it but... How many times have you heard someone say, "If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can trade successfully..." Pleanty of times, right? You know what? They're RIGHT!!!!!

If you're willing to do whatever it takes you can be a brain surgeon, an electrical engineer and on and on... What nobody ever properly clarifies is what it actually takes. More often than not they follow that statement with some obscure (maybe even mystical) theory on the balance of model work to psychological effort, or to some zone or zen like process where all you have to do is think yourself successful. When was the last time someone successfully walked out of a blue coller job and simply thought themselve into a succesful surgeon? And if you're standing in the middle of a medical consort and one of the best heart doctors in the world tells you; If we do this procedure now there is a 95% chance your are going to die on the table and then your uncle fred who read a book on heart conditions written by Walt Disney jumps in and says... No way, there is only a 5% cance you're going to die... Who the hell are you going to believe?

Every person on this board has the power to be profitable in the market; but you have to come to terms with what it really means to be profitable as a trader... The reality is its 12 or 13 a year on aveage if you're really good, it's less if you not. Because that doesn't fit into your dreams doesn't mean its not reality.

NOW GET OUT THERE AND DO SOME REAL RESEARCH AND BUILD A RESONABLE EXPECTATION FOR YOUR TRADE EFFORTS...

If you want to be independantly wealthy from trading; build resonable expectations and learn to trade properly, then go out an manage money professionally. When you have $100mm in assets you'll make $2m a year in management fee's and that much or more in performance fees depending on the years performance...

Is there any one here that doesn't want to make $4m a year in income? Get your head on straight and get your goals aligned properly with the reality of the job that you want to do... There is no 5% a month, but there are millions of dollars waiting to be managed by people who can return good risk adjusted returns between 1 and 2% a month. And if you think that is easy all I have to say is... Really, prove it...

Sorry for the rant; I'm putting the soap box away now. Oh and for the record this wasn't directed at Mike... this same sentiment is echoed all over the FX world... I'm trying to reach a much bigger audience and this was just a good platform to jump off of... Sorry Mike
god....this is EXACTLY what always wanted to say! I'm just as saddened that no one wants to listen to the realities of trading. everyone thinks 1000% a year is doable on a anual basis. its not.

in fact i like this post so much, im gonna put it on my blog.
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  • #19
  • Dec 12, 2007 3:35am Dec 12, 2007 3:35am
100k is too much to trade if you need to ask this question. Stick to risk free bonds until you have more experience.
  • #20
  • Dec 12, 2007 8:29am Dec 12, 2007 8:29am
Quoting jjk2
god....this is EXACTLY what always wanted to say! I'm just as saddened that no one wants to listen to the realities of trading. everyone thinks 1000% a year is doable on a anual basis. its not.

in fact i like this post so much, im gonna put it on my blog.

feel free to correct my miserable spelling!!!! I don't want to embarras my self in front of a whol NEW group of readers...
Trade Small. Be Patient. Learn to Survive.
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