Dislikedplease do progress , i do not want (and many of us surely) to disturb your enlightening teaching by posting unnecessary questions ... i believe in strong foundation and understanding to master a game , but i find these things are acquirable while u play the game , probably due the inquisitive nature of human being ...Ignored
Ohh, almost forgot, fti, I think I completelly understand your dilemma at this point about posting further. Let me say this from my own personal perspective, humility can not be taught it has to be experienced to be entrenched in someones mind. You as the person who posseses a very invaluable information (well my opinion, it's golden) can not really decide whether this information may bring benefit or greater harm just like the river can not cleanse every single person who steps in it. Just like the river you simply are, you are allready here, whoom ever this may bring benefit for or whom ever harm will only depend on an individuals will, desire, ability to learn, expanding of their mind understanding of new concepts. You are the fountain of wisdom in this instance but that does not mean that some people won't have a bitter taste.
So, to recap, please excuse me for being frank, I say things the way I see them, by stoping now you may cause more harm than good, simply because an unfinished subject will create an animal that will really not resemble a horse any longer, even the dna will be different, please don't leave us with a mutant, lol
So, to recap, please excuse me for being frank, I say things the way I see them, by stoping now you may cause more harm than good, simply because an unfinished subject will create an animal that will really not resemble a horse any longer, even the dna will be different, please don't leave us with a mutant, lol
One of the things that makes FF an interesting place is that Merlin encourages the moderators not to 'control/moderate/berate' members for their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and even if we do not agree with them...too bad...it is their opinion.
As long as the following rule is adhered to...
As a Forex Factory member, you are expected to treat others with respect and kindness. Mean-spiritedness, fighting, racism, offensive comments, and slander are all subject to removal. Healthy debate is welcome.
Additionally, all members have the right to trade in peace - you should not harass, attack, or disrupt another trader’s thread. If you dislike or disagree with someone’s trading methods, it’s fine to say so, but you should move on shortly thereafter.
especially the second paragraph....
and there should also be a rule about kicking cats.....lol
Cheers
Antra
As long as the following rule is adhered to...
As a Forex Factory member, you are expected to treat others with respect and kindness. Mean-spiritedness, fighting, racism, offensive comments, and slander are all subject to removal. Healthy debate is welcome.
Additionally, all members have the right to trade in peace - you should not harass, attack, or disrupt another trader’s thread. If you dislike or disagree with someone’s trading methods, it’s fine to say so, but you should move on shortly thereafter.
especially the second paragraph....
and there should also be a rule about kicking cats.....lol
Cheers
Antra
- #392
- Edited 4:42am Dec 7, 2007 4:10am | Edited 4:42am
- Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
Besides the story in and of itself having bad implications and a display of disturbing social outlines, there's still this:
Why would I need a translation of what I wrote myself? Probably just a misunderstanding..I was just kidding around since gene suggested I put myself in the place of the river..and river instantly reminded me of the Dao...but as you can see I am no good at being a Quietist 
I'm fighting a readymade misunderstanding or pre-prepared "this is what it is". I find it amazing how readily people will just brush aside some rather mindboggling misgivings in that story because 'well it's just to illustrate a point'. Critical analysis just makes me look at it with a more deeper dissective approach. Definitely wasn't the same intention as of the poster and all the "yay I get it" posters.
This is a contradiction btw, if there is no wrong then there isn't a right; if there is no wrong, then you cannot use "most".
This just illustrates my point. If your rulebook says move you stop only TOWARDS the trade (less risk) and you start to go "oh but it just might survive if I widen the stop just a biiiit more" and break the rule "just this one time because it's an exception" you will effectively disarm your own rule and could just as well not have had it.
Doing this erodes the whole usefullness and sense.
This is another way of saying "follow the rules/your plan you made BEFORE THE TRADE to the POINT without violating them or bending them at all only because now you are IN the trade".
It's also similiar to "ignore the noise(of 50 million other people saying things about "your" pair/trade)", something I've repeatedly said, too. (read: I agree)
This all just caters to what I wrote.
If this isn't understandable then I can't help any more than writing what I wrote.
This is why we made those rules - to have a pre-outlined plan of action beforehand which we refer to to the letter so we do NOT have to rely on in-the-moment emotional fudging and start carrying women around in the hope that nobody sees us.
Oh it applies very well.
One would be:
We are a democracy, we define ourselves by freedom and liberty.
But, since there's this extraordinary situation we're in now, we'll just go and cut off all our freedoms and liberties in order to cope with this really really special situation we're in now. Forget that this also erodes who we are; who we defined we would be. Forget that by breaking our own foundation and rules we are no longer capable of being who we were. We justify it all by a momentary lapse and "feeling" of newfound fear; therefore it is alright.
(you can pick either USA or Germany, both are doing this crap now)
They made a plan - a constitution. They began to trade it - live it. Then while in the trade - living it, something goes wrong. Everyone panics and starts to ignore their trading plan - the constitution.
So yes, it is very much true today still. The same crap, just in another variation. I still think both are stupid to do.
If a trader no longer feels his rules apply and are valid, then he needs to create new ones and leave his system behind. I just wish the politicians would do the same and leave those who still want to trade/live by the old system well enough alone.
I don't need to dispute fti nor am I. No idea why anyone would think that.
I merely dispute preconfigured conception on the basis of rational thought and consequential deliberation. Which is bad, because those little ditties and simplified "and that's why this and that is good to do or not and wise etc pp" sometimes work really well and sometimes they fall apart after a closer look. There's always been two kind of people with this stuff: the ones that go "wow, that's SO true!" and the ones that go "yes, well, but what about..". Merry go alongs with a lot of fellowship the former, sour spoilsports the latter. I'm the sourpuss spoilsport, but I don't do it because it's fun, but because I hate being shortsighted about insights.
I do rather like deep and true ones; but that does not mean I'll take whatevers handed to me unscrutinized at face value.
Things have to actually make sense for me to accept them.
Basically I prefer concrete to quicksand for a foundation and try to examine materials to incorporate into my "house" quite critically due to it
And a last thing - if the point was to be "don't let mistakes of your past change your perception of the now other than in a positive manner"(dwelling on past mistakes can HELP YOU to avoid them in the future - dismissing them by saying "ho ho ho don't burden yourself, live easy" just dooms you to repeat the mistakes of the past over and again eventually), then there's definitely GOT to be a better story out there than this one.
P.S. I was only arguing a point, not fti. And since it seems there's been around a dozen or so posts, pms and email excitement over all this I am fine if everything just moves on without me, too.
I just replied because fti wrote that he wanted to know what I think about this a few posts back. Nobody needs to agree with me; I am merely explaining myself.
"I am the river, I flow as I go. The Dao has me."
it translates , I am the flow, and I am nothing but natural.
Just in case you need it translated.
Hi ALL,
@ Seekinglight,
Why are you fighting with yourself?
If you contine at it, ward 13 might come to get you, friend, LOL.
I'm fighting a readymade misunderstanding or pre-prepared "this is what it is". I find it amazing how readily people will just brush aside some rather mindboggling misgivings in that story because 'well it's just to illustrate a point'. Critical analysis just makes me look at it with a more deeper dissective approach. Definitely wasn't the same intention as of the poster and all the "yay I get it" posters.
A think most people got it right, there's no wrong answers.
but the message in the trading context was,
Please DO NOT over analyse things in charts ( &life), I didn't say don't analyse.
Remember when I posted about hope.
Analysing, then trading it, analysing again, when things, go wrong.
I bet you won't be analysing the charts again when things are going right.
Doing this erodes the whole usefullness and sense.
When things go wrong , action to do damage control is necessary.
Views and reviews become optical illusions to the brain.
It will dazzle your mind.
More over ability not to allow your memory of the past,
intrude into you present is important.
It's also similiar to "ignore the noise(of 50 million other people saying things about "your" pair/trade)", something I've repeatedly said, too. (read: I agree)
This all just caters to what I wrote.
If this isn't understandable then I can't help any more than writing what I wrote.
It would upset your ability to mobilise the required action. ( SElf doubt)
What part of the story doesn't apply today? Please enlighten me.
One would be:
We are a democracy, we define ourselves by freedom and liberty.
But, since there's this extraordinary situation we're in now, we'll just go and cut off all our freedoms and liberties in order to cope with this really really special situation we're in now. Forget that this also erodes who we are; who we defined we would be. Forget that by breaking our own foundation and rules we are no longer capable of being who we were. We justify it all by a momentary lapse and "feeling" of newfound fear; therefore it is alright.
(you can pick either USA or Germany, both are doing this crap now)
They made a plan - a constitution. They began to trade it - live it. Then while in the trade - living it, something goes wrong. Everyone panics and starts to ignore their trading plan - the constitution.
So yes, it is very much true today still. The same crap, just in another variation. I still think both are stupid to do.
If a trader no longer feels his rules apply and are valid, then he needs to create new ones and leave his system behind. I just wish the politicians would do the same and leave those who still want to trade/live by the old system well enough alone.
I don't need to dispute fti nor am I. No idea why anyone would think that.
I merely dispute preconfigured conception on the basis of rational thought and consequential deliberation. Which is bad, because those little ditties and simplified "and that's why this and that is good to do or not and wise etc pp" sometimes work really well and sometimes they fall apart after a closer look. There's always been two kind of people with this stuff: the ones that go "wow, that's SO true!" and the ones that go "yes, well, but what about..". Merry go alongs with a lot of fellowship the former, sour spoilsports the latter. I'm the sourpuss spoilsport, but I don't do it because it's fun, but because I hate being shortsighted about insights.
I do rather like deep and true ones; but that does not mean I'll take whatevers handed to me unscrutinized at face value.
Things have to actually make sense for me to accept them.
Basically I prefer concrete to quicksand for a foundation and try to examine materials to incorporate into my "house" quite critically due to it
And a last thing - if the point was to be "don't let mistakes of your past change your perception of the now other than in a positive manner"(dwelling on past mistakes can HELP YOU to avoid them in the future - dismissing them by saying "ho ho ho don't burden yourself, live easy" just dooms you to repeat the mistakes of the past over and again eventually), then there's definitely GOT to be a better story out there than this one.
P.S. I was only arguing a point, not fti. And since it seems there's been around a dozen or so posts, pms and email excitement over all this I am fine if everything just moves on without me, too.
I just replied because fti wrote that he wanted to know what I think about this a few posts back. Nobody needs to agree with me; I am merely explaining myself.
Trust price. Know yourself.
- #393
- Dec 7, 2007 4:26am Dec 7, 2007 4:26am
- | Joined Nov 2007 | Status: Big trend, big money | 786 Posts
Jokes aside though, I do feel that some "rules" or "guidelines" need to be in place in trading. How rigid you want to make those rules depends on what works for you. I don't want to be the one saying "If you follow a strict set of rules then you can't be a successful trader", because guess what, there ARE successful traders out there who do adhere to a strict set of rules. Who am I to argue?
On the other hand, there are obviously some successful traders who rely somewhat on instinct and a good sense of what is the right thing to do in this situation. They don't think in absolute terms, but in relative terms. In my opinion, this is demonstrates a higher state of mind. Just as Einstein found that time and space are not absolute, but relative, it would seem that he achieved a higher state of mind than Isaac Newton... However, he probably never would have achieved this had it not been for Newton's work before him. So it was Einstein who stood on the shoulders of giants, just as Newton before him. And that is why the monk saw that in this situation, clearly, the right thing to do was to help the woman. He shorted "rules", but then hedged his position by going long "help woman", so at worst, his position was delta neutral . It's not that he ignored the rules of the wise men that came before him, he just added his part to the collective wisdom of the ages, and developed a new hedging strategy.
As far as this pertains to trading, I believe that using flexible rules requires an immense amount of experience in order to develop the necessary instinct. Only experience can give a person the ability to see order in the markets without using rigid rules (think of Keanu Reeves reading the MATRIX, and just SEEING IT). Until you have achieved that level of clarity, I think you are better off sticking to rigid rules, and ease up on them slowly as you gain experience. That is exactly why I think FTI is hesitant to put powerful tools in the hands of relatively inexperienced traders, and that is exactly why more experienced traders tend to get more and more naked as they progress from a screen full of indicators, to a naked, or nearly naked chart.
- #394
- Dec 7, 2007 4:39am Dec 7, 2007 4:39am
- Joined Mar 2007 | Status: Pip pip | 2,692 Posts
Leighsww,
You're quite telepatic, I was just asking myself the same thingy.
What am I doing this for? on a public forum?
All I could come up with was , maybe it may help some traders.
I don't know, should I stop, everyones' so silent, wonder if there's any interest.
actually quite tired of all this hammering the keyboard.
If you still want to progress on , Could do via email.
regards
Hi SL, lol
Interesting post, allright here is my 2c, this is based purelly on my personal experience. You make a very good point to create the plan and then trade it, absolutelly, I agree. But let's consider this for a moment, let's say that when you had made your plan you had limited information, the situation had given you clues and you had acted upon those clues in the manner that was justifyable for the moment, but lets also say that after the decision was made the situation had changed somewhat, your original plan now, in the current time frame has to be adjusted, and since the plan has to be adjusted the same will apply for rules/stop losses minimizing the risk, etc. Now here is the point that I'm trying to make, and you had mentioned it too about irrational, emotional decisions, if you trade off of monthly chart you have plenty of time to analyse and build your model, weekly, a little less, daily more so, and so forth, Each time frame gives clues, ideas, etc. The point here is that it is very difficult to be able to grasp the amount of information that is presented to you in a very short time frame, if the situation changes you should/compelled to act. Inmo it is simply psychological, professional inexperience, haste, etc. It had happened to me when i had deviated from the original plan and didn't realise full profit because i acted in haste or took a bigger loss than was called for. But over time I had trained myself to distinguish in a very short time intervals, minutes, if the situation is changing and needs adjustment or this is just noise. There are times when I feel simply exhausted, burned out in the middle of the trade, in the past I had done everything from moving the stop loss, adjusting the limit, reanalysing and taking another position. Now if this happens I do just one thing and one thing only, I force myself, force, note the word, to concentrate on the immeditate trade, analyse it with a clear perspective and close it off manually. Whether it's in profit or loss does not matter, what matters is that I try to find the ability to do just one more thing before I switch off, there is always another day.
So I think when you are speaking about rules you do have the same perspective you are just afraid to say that the rules change, perspectives change, etc. Yes there are a lot of people that follow the rules like robots, sussesfully, but they do not evolve, grow, they have limitations, but since I'm not a robot and the human brain was proved to be a much more capable computer currently available, and we do tend to use less than 3% of our brains, I'd rather try to tap in to the reserve 97% that's sitting there sipping martinies and attempt to put it to work. Whether it proves sussesfull or not really makes no difference in this context, lol
Interesting post, allright here is my 2c, this is based purelly on my personal experience. You make a very good point to create the plan and then trade it, absolutelly, I agree. But let's consider this for a moment, let's say that when you had made your plan you had limited information, the situation had given you clues and you had acted upon those clues in the manner that was justifyable for the moment, but lets also say that after the decision was made the situation had changed somewhat, your original plan now, in the current time frame has to be adjusted, and since the plan has to be adjusted the same will apply for rules/stop losses minimizing the risk, etc. Now here is the point that I'm trying to make, and you had mentioned it too about irrational, emotional decisions, if you trade off of monthly chart you have plenty of time to analyse and build your model, weekly, a little less, daily more so, and so forth, Each time frame gives clues, ideas, etc. The point here is that it is very difficult to be able to grasp the amount of information that is presented to you in a very short time frame, if the situation changes you should/compelled to act. Inmo it is simply psychological, professional inexperience, haste, etc. It had happened to me when i had deviated from the original plan and didn't realise full profit because i acted in haste or took a bigger loss than was called for. But over time I had trained myself to distinguish in a very short time intervals, minutes, if the situation is changing and needs adjustment or this is just noise. There are times when I feel simply exhausted, burned out in the middle of the trade, in the past I had done everything from moving the stop loss, adjusting the limit, reanalysing and taking another position. Now if this happens I do just one thing and one thing only, I force myself, force, note the word, to concentrate on the immeditate trade, analyse it with a clear perspective and close it off manually. Whether it's in profit or loss does not matter, what matters is that I try to find the ability to do just one more thing before I switch off, there is always another day.
So I think when you are speaking about rules you do have the same perspective you are just afraid to say that the rules change, perspectives change, etc. Yes there are a lot of people that follow the rules like robots, sussesfully, but they do not evolve, grow, they have limitations, but since I'm not a robot and the human brain was proved to be a much more capable computer currently available, and we do tend to use less than 3% of our brains, I'd rather try to tap in to the reserve 97% that's sitting there sipping martinies and attempt to put it to work. Whether it proves sussesfull or not really makes no difference in this context, lol
