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Technical Analysis Fallacy

  • #341
  • Dec 6, 2007 3:55pm Dec 6, 2007 3:55pm
And I was sure that the story took place in the streams of Northern India (lol, not that it matters).

Those who picked that it is a story about the young monk's attachment and need to let go of it have picked the originally intended meaning.
  • #342
  • Edited 4:51pm Dec 6, 2007 4:37pm | Edited 4:51pm
Quoting kiwi_trader
And I was sure that the story took place in the streams of Northern India (lol, not that it matters).

Those who picked that it is a story about the young monk's attachment and need to let go of it have picked the originally intended meaning.
That may be though reading the story from my perspective, I view the monk as being central to the story as he demonstrated that "flexibility" allows one to think outside the box. In that case a solution is possible whereas the monk in training did not allow that of himself - and therefore the problem would still exist.

The monk in training would have two problems... 1. not being able to help and 2. not being about to touch. Each in conflict with the other.

The monk, however, has no present problems.

However, the final line says it all and seems to indicate that one should not carry the burden, even though it can be avoided. But next time, be flexible!
  • #343
  • Dec 6, 2007 4:45pm Dec 6, 2007 4:45pm
What y'all don't get is that if your rules are so nonsensical that they'd even speak against rescuing burning women, you should have questioned them in the first place.

Geez, this is exactly what I mean. People will eat and accept whatever's handed to them and justify it to death before they'd admit to a flawed foundation, turn it over and build it anew.

If your system isn't working or you constantly need to break your own rules THEN YOU NEED A NEW SYSTEM!
Be it of values, beliefs, rules, etc.

It's not a question of just making enough excuses(as basically every post in reply to my objections has done) to stick with what constantly causes conflict, but to establish a harmony with guidelines that don't incur conflict in the first place.

Shows me where the problem lies.

I am the river, I flow as I go. The Dao has me.
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #344
  • Edited 5:40pm Dec 6, 2007 5:01pm | Edited 5:40pm
Quoting SeekingLight
What y'all don't get is that if your rules are so nonsensical that they'd even speak against rescuing burning women, you should have questioned them in the first place.
You have a point there and I agree. As fti mentioned, forex basically has no rules apart from those that we, ourselves, impose. So if rules will only burden us, why not do without them to begin with? We are at war and I would rather do without the disadvantages and be prepared for all eventualities!
  • #345
  • Dec 6, 2007 5:24pm Dec 6, 2007 5:24pm
Rules can be good but they will never work in every situation as there will generally come a time where a situation has been overlooked - assess the situation - make a decision and move forward from there.

In the forex market we need to be flexible to move with the market
  • #346
  • Edited 6:10pm Dec 6, 2007 5:59pm | Edited 6:10pm
Quoting SeekingLight
Geez, this is exactly what I mean. People will eat and accept whatever's handed to them and justify it to death before they'd admit to a flawed foundation, turn it over and build it anew.
LOL, well I can't say if all rules are flawed nor will I put my own beliefs in front of someone else's to tell them what rules they should or shouldn't have/live by (ex: telling Monks that they shouldn't touch women, lol).

Most of us probably make some rules/guidelines within/for ourselves to keep our morals/behavior/disciplines in check. Like the rule of "thou shalt not kill" (now whether we're religious or not doesn't matter, the message is the same). We don't have to make it a rule, but the fact that it's something that we have defined for ourselves that we should not do, is in itself a "rule," no?

Now for some in regards to trading, they might define a rule/guideline of not trading against the trend, or not to use indicators and only read PA, or even having the mindset of "not holding on to baggage/burdens and to just let it go" ... those can all be considered rules to govern their behavior with trading.

But again, like most have said here ... there are times when there may be exceptions to the rules in which you need to allow yourself to be flexible about and not insist on staying rigid to those rules if it will be more of a detriment.

Here's a couple of definitions of "rule" from an online dictionary that I feel defines it appropriately and maybe more acceptably for most:

"A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior"
"principle that provides guidance to appropriate behavior"

So, whether one imposes rules on oneself or not, most people create guidelines/guidance for themselves in which they choose to follow for whatever their reasons.

And if you prefer not to set any guidelines for yourself, then that's your decision/prerogative and fine for you, but others may choose to do so as just a method of keeping themselves in check. That's all.

Just like making goals for oneself ... making rules/guidelines is not that dissimilar.

Do you not have any guidelines for yourself at all? Do you not live by certain morals that you have defined for yourself?
  • #347
  • Dec 6, 2007 6:22pm Dec 6, 2007 6:22pm
Quoting SeekingLight
If your system isn't working or you constantly need to break your own rules THEN YOU NEED A NEW SYSTEM!
Be it of values, beliefs, rules, etc.
Oh I want to add ...

Whether the Monk made rules for themselves, I think may be beside the point (at least in the story), lol.

But even if we make that the issue ... I don't believe it would be something that he intends to break all the time. And, maybe the Young Monk was being too anal, haha, cuz maybe he is interpreting the "touching of a woman" too literally, when in essence, maybe the original rule was only meant to be about celibacy, so all this time, even shaking hands with a woman would not have been an issue, lol. Who knows? lol

Haha, maybe we should Google "a monk's vows", and find out once and for all, lol! :

Okay, I am getting inane with my sense-of-humor again, so please don't mind me : (I get that way sometimes, but it's all in good fun )
  • #348
  • Dec 6, 2007 6:26pm Dec 6, 2007 6:26pm
Quoting Maseyw
Rules can be good but they will never work in every situation as there will generally come a time where a situation has been overlooked - assess the situation - make a decision and move forward from there.

In the forex market we need to be flexible to move with the market
I think this is exactly how the old monk viewed things. His life experience had taught him that rules are actually guidelines, and not something to be rigidly adhered to at all costs. Sometimes the greater good (or even common sense) calls for flexibility. The young monk hadn't learned that lesson yet.
  • #349
  • Dec 6, 2007 6:58pm Dec 6, 2007 6:58pm
Quoting leighsww

Here's a couple of definitions of "rule" that I feel defines it appropriately and maybe more acceptably for most:

"A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior"
"principle that provides guidance to appropriate behavior"

Rules are made to be broken, but I do prefer the term "guideline" as it implies flexibility. Oops... wrong screen again.
  • #350
  • Edited 11:08pm Dec 6, 2007 8:25pm | Edited 11:08pm
Hi ALL,

Thanks all for you thoughts

@ heheundhaha,
"crying over split milk....haha"
you meant crying over losses, right?

@ gene22,
Ist you saw the point, then you went back to reread it.
see what happens then?

@ Seekinglight,
Why are you fighting with yourself?
If you contine at it, ward 13 might come to get you, friend, LOL.

"I am the river, I flow as I go. The Dao has me."
it translates , I am the flow, and I am nothing but natural.
Just in case you need it translated.

@ Gknarf,
Ahhh, see.

@ Scoundrel,
See everybody gets it.

@ fierceman,
thanks, I believe zoran now understands

@ Green_David,
To understand the market movement, it is impossible, otherwise there will be no market.
The rule that the trader must comform to is sell high, buy low. thats it.

You asked,
What the principle/criteria to set up an entry and exit a position?
To be able to do that, understand this.

"Can you under stand life and its mystries, You cannot as long as you try to grasp it,
just as you cannot walk off with a river in a bucket.
If you try to capture a river in a bucket, it is clear that you go not understand it
and you will always be disappointed for in the bucket is not the river.
To have the river, you must let go and let it run."

"Music is a delight because of its rhythm and flow.
Yet the moment you arrest the flow
and prolong a note or chord beyond its time the rhythm is destroyed."

Not so unlike rivers and music , the markets flows.
It is not the market that you have to content with it is 'YOU'.

@ Zoran,
Do whatever it takes, to get it right.
Read it once understand it, then rest the mind and let it understand itself.

@ doremi,
Nice of you to understand the Scorpion, this story is the advanced version.

@ Islander
You have a good brain, the right brain I mean not the wrong one. just jesting, lol
You had good thoughts.

@ maheswara
Welcome, make it yours, desiderata that is.

@ Pips_Cruiser
Islander have good thoughts and you're not bad as well.

@Leighsww,
Ahh, welcome back, where did you go. Been busy?
I thought we, lost your cheers.

@ webfoot,
Aaaa, Are you zen master, or grasshopper?

@MickD
You're ok, but ease off on the R?R thingy for your books health, seriously.

@ kiwi_trader
Friend, I typed that out from memory, of what my dad taught me.
How did you placed me in India ? Reincarnation ?lol

@ Maseyw
Forward !, friend, steady as she goes.

@ pips_crusier,
Carefull, Don't go there.

@ pipmaster
Hey, Where do you intend to bring the whole truck load of us? LOL.
Careful with your screens.You don't want to post that in some kinky sites.LOL

A think most people got it right, there's no wrong answers.
but the message in the trading context was,

Please DO NOT over analyse things in charts ( &life), I didn't say don't analyse.
Remember when I posted about hope.
Analysing, then trading it, analysing again, when things, go wrong.
I bet you won't be analysing the charts again when things are going right.
When things go wrong , action to do damage control is necessary.
Views and reviews become optical illusions to the brain.
It will dazzle your mind.
More over ability not to allow your memory of the past,
intrude into you present is important.
It would upset your ability to mobilise the required action. ( SElf doubt)

regards

PS there's more 2 more stories coming soon before we conclude mindset . BE PREPARED.
  • #351
  • Dec 6, 2007 8:47pm Dec 6, 2007 8:47pm
Quoting fti
Hi ALL,

...

@MickD
You're ok, but ease off on the R?R thingy for your books health, seriously.
Will do, thanks for jogging my brain yet again.

Looking forward to the next stories
thanks.
  • #352
  • Edited 9:07pm Dec 6, 2007 8:50pm | Edited 9:07pm
LOL, fti ... Dr. Banks' inane sense-of-humor is coming out full-force in you, lah? : (ack, I'm not even Chinese or Singaporean and I'm saying "lah" to you now - you're contagious!)

Unfortunately, I was already inflicted with inane sense-of-humor, so I'm almost afraid to order Dr. Banks' CDs, now, lol (may end up in that "happy institution" you mentioned to Dopey about. However, I feel you are not disclosing the full truth, cuz I bet you were indeed a patient there .

Quoting fti
@ pips_crusier,
Carefull, Don't go there.
In what reference is your comment to Pips_Cruiser about?
  • #353
  • Dec 6, 2007 9:07pm Dec 6, 2007 9:07pm
Hi leighsww,

Pips_crusier, was begining to reanalyse his initial thoughts.
that's all.

After so many years of market battles, Have to be a little out.
realignment necessary.LOL

regards
  • #354
  • Dec 6, 2007 9:11pm Dec 6, 2007 9:11pm
Ward 13 (?) might be coming for me then too. I understand exactly what SL is saying.

Stories/parables/poems past down through the ages sometimes can get lost in the translation and through differences from one generation to the next.

But if we are to apply them to the here and now then they have to make sense in the here and now in the modern world we live in.

Yes the younger monk was carrying a burden he should free himself from. But are there rules - or not? I care less about the rules that were in place hundreds of years ago but anyone who believes trading doesn't have rules (you're own) loses all credibility with me. Example of a rule, every trade has to have a stop loss - always. No entry without first defining an exit. There are many other mandatory basic rules, after which other rules can vary from trader to trader.
  • #355
  • Edited 9:54pm Dec 6, 2007 9:39pm | Edited 9:54pm
Hi All,
suntrader,

Just FYI,
Stories/parables/poems (WISDOM) past down through the ages never will get lost, its the people who gets lost, due to their indifference. If what you say was true, then you would be wearing leaves and all those "primitive" things today. It has always been the wisdom of those before us that have propelled human development.

"...But if we are to apply them to the here and now then they have to make sense in the here and now in the modern world we live in...."

What part of the story doesn't apply today? Please enlighten me. ????

"...Yes the younger monk was carrying a burden he should free himself from. But are there rules - or not?..."

No, I don't see any rules there.
You have a free will to choose otherwise,
of course the consiquences , you yourself , would have to pay.
If you can read carefully, the monk taught , "should" not "must",.
It is wisdom and advisory, not mandatory.

Look, friend, to each, his own.
You are at liberty to do whatever pleases you with your money.
If you want to shackle youself up,please go ahead.Its no skin off my nose.
I just wanted to help some people to see the folly of it.
Hey, I have no gun pointed at you. So do whatever pleases you.
But if you may want to put egor down, and think a bit ,
you're welcome do do so.

Made your millions, then don't listen to me.

regards

PS: Oh, ward 13 is the happy ward.

I forgot. Those "rules" that you are using , where did it come from?
Did you invented them?
Was also wondering, do you in the first place know how to calculate the components of the indicators that you are using. MANUALLY? and dio you know who invented stop loss orders and why they were invented?

And I would also like to know, which broker enforces the "rule" that "No entry without first defining an exit" and MUST be accompanied with stop loss,. IIf you can highlight them I will take up that issue with the CFTC and the NFA.
  • #356
  • Edited 9:55pm Dec 6, 2007 9:43pm | Edited 9:55pm
Quoting fti
Pips_crusier, was begining to reanalyse his initial thoughts. that's all.
Ah, okay.

Sheesh, you gotta be more specific, lest you expect us to read your mind. Or is that a lesson, as well?

Haha, in feb's thread, I was gonna open up a psychic center, so maybe I gotta go do that now, cuz with you, that seems to be what we need to keep up with your thinking :

----------

Quoting SunTrader
Ward 13 (?) might be coming for me then too. I understand exactly what SL is saying.

Stories/parables/poems past down through the ages sometimes can get lost in the translation and through differences from one generation to the next.

But if we are to apply them to the here and now then they have to make sense in the here and now in the modern world we live in.

Yes the younger monk was carrying a burden he should free himself from. But are there rules - or not? I care less about the rules that were in place hundreds of years ago but anyone who believes trading doesn't have rules (you're own) loses all credibility with me. Example of a rule, every trade has to have a stop loss - always. No entry without first defining an exit. There are many other mandatory basic rules, after which other rules can vary from trader to trader.
SunTrader ... now, this is just my observation and feelings, but you have totally lost the point/meanings of these lessons and this entire thread.

SunTrader, SeekingLight and anybody else who would consider themselves "experienced" traders who have been fighting yourselves with all this ... again, this is just my observation and opinion (because I hope to gawd that you don't take what I am saying as either arrogant nor condescending, because believe me, I am NOT meaning it that way) ... but both of you, as well as some others, have often complained about newbies (okay, there's that word again, lol) who don't wanna take advice from "experienced" traders, etc. etc.

Here's some of your posts:

SeekingLight:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...87#post1740187
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=55054

SunTrader:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1606639
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1606693
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1743584

Okay, now instead of the word "newbies" in your posts, try replacing that with your names, because you are doing what you complain that newbies do when you guys try to give them advice/enlightenment that they don't seem to "get".

My question now to you is, based on your own definitions of someone who is experienced and worthy of some degree of respect as a Teacher/Master/etc. ...

1) Do you find fti to have any value at all as to possibly being a Teacher?

2) Do you feel he may even be a Master at what he does (from his credentials and based on his results - I already vouched for his results)?

Now, if you have read thoroughly this thread, you will know that he has trained dealers in Interbanks for many years. There is no denying he knows his stuff. I think there are MANY intelligent people who have already responded in this thread who feel the same as I do, this is no cult thread, lol.

Anyway, please answer those two questions I have posted. Thank you.
  • #357
  • Dec 6, 2007 9:48pm Dec 6, 2007 9:48pm
Quoting leighsww
Ah, okay.

Sheesh, you gotta be more specific, lest you expect us to read your mind. Or is that a lesson, as well?

Haha, in feb's thread, I was gonna open up a psychic center, so maybe I gotta go do that now, cuz with you, that seems to be what we need to keep up with your thinking

----------



SunTrader ... now, this is just my observation and feelings, but you have totally lost the point/meanings of these lessons and this entire thread.

SunTrader, SeekingLight and anybody else who would consider themselves "experienced" traders who have been fighting yourselves with all this ... again, this is just my observation and opinion (because I hope to gawd that you don't take what I am saying as either arrogant nor condescending, because believe me, I am NOT meaning it that way) ... but both of you, as well as some others, have often complained about newbies (okay, there's that word again, lol) who don't wanna take advice from "experienced" traders, etc. etc.

Here's some of your posts:

SeekingLight:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...87#post1740187
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=55054

SunTrader:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1606639
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1606693
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...es#post1743584

Okay, now instead of the word "newbies" in your posts, try replacing that with your names.

My question now to you is, based on your own definitions of someone experienced, etc. ...

1) Do you find fti to have any value at all as to possibly being a Teacher?

2) Do you feel he may even be a Master at what he does (from his credentials and based on his results - I already vouched for his results)?

Please answer those two questions first, and then depending on your answer, I will continue my post. Thank you.
The CIA should get in touch with.

And here is a little advice for you and the old wise one. Take a chill pill. Old ancient America expression.

How dare I question the "Wisdom"!
  • #358
  • Dec 6, 2007 10:10pm Dec 6, 2007 10:10pm
Quoting SunTrader
The CIA should get in touch with.

And here is a little advice for you and the old wise one. Take a chill pill. Old ancient America expression.

How dare I question the "Wisdom"!

Did you just made a threat? Or just shooting blanks?
  • #359
  • Edited 10:50pm Dec 6, 2007 10:10pm | Edited 10:50pm
Quoting SunTrader
And here is a little advice for you and the old wise one. Take a chill pill. Old ancient America expression.

How dare I question the "Wisdom"!
LOL, maybe we can take a poll as to who people thinks needs a chill pill, lol.

Actually, I didn't say not to question, lol, heck even I question him, haha.

You might want to step outside yourselves, and try to objectively look at how you might be behaving and how others are viewing you.

Please believe me when I say ... in the eyes of most who read what is going on here, it is you who may not be looking as wise as you may think. This is not a put-down, please understand. This is feedback, because, trust me, most people are pretty intelligent and can sense the "motivation" behind people's posts.

Majority of people know when someone is questioning because they really want to know, or posing opposite views because they truly have another opinion about it, and that's all fine and needed. We need to question when we don't understand, and we need to give our viewpoints if we feel otherwise.

However, when I read your posts in this thread, I only see your motivation as selfish ego, not one who is giving any sort of constructive criticism for the good of everyone.

I only see you as needing to play the devil's advocate and buck everything being said for who knows whatever reasons you may have ... maybe because you see fti gaining popularity, or you see him as an authority figure that you don't care for or something, or maybe you just like to make other people wrong, so you can be right ... I don't know? You tell me what your motivation is, if I am wrong with my assessment.

Are you the only ones that everyone has to view as "knowing/experienced/teachers/gurus"? Are you not able to gain any more knowledge/enlightenment for yourselves from possibly those who may have a little more knowledge than yourselves? So in essence, what I gather from your behavior, is that "People, listen to me, but I don't need to listen to anybody for myself"?

* Edited - Most people have a good judge of character by how people behave themselves

If you find this thread offensive to your way of thinking, then just don't read it anymore. Leave those of us who want to get enlightened to our sessions, lol.
  • #360
  • Dec 6, 2007 10:19pm Dec 6, 2007 10:19pm
Quoting SunTrader
The CIA should get in touch with.

And here is a little advice for you and the old wise one. Take a chill pill. Old ancient America expression.

How dare I question the "Wisdom"!
Oh one more thing on this post of yours, LOL ... okay now at this point, you are just really getting childish, don't you think? :
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