Does this NOT work? | Forex Factory

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Does this NOT work?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 4, 2007 3:20pm Dec 4, 2007 3:20pm
Any aspiring trader looking through the threads on this website will soon come to see that many of the trading systems with limited success that are built on the foundations of what they do not understand, and even the 'author' of this new and wonderfull system(haha yea, lol) does not understand.

Now, I often do need to give my head a wobble and consider the fact and reason for 99.9% of traders being in this forum is because THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TRADE yet, but, like sheep folowing another just as foolishly the long way around to the greener feild they continue.

Why do we not have some of the 1kt traders offering valuable, and sensible trading techniques, Things of most substance and value will always be:

Trendlines
Channels
S&R
Trend
Significant numbers(ie. the numbers the Fundie traders are looking at as important, 00 and 50.

Having been trading for a couple of years now, I can still not call myself any kind of expert, but I understand that this is the way forward and these are the things I should be looking at to develop my system around so that I can move forwards.

I find it very sadening that the majority of threads(correction: threads teaching systems) are made by people who kno little about what they are doing and are not employing these basic but so obviously fundamental techniques.

I apologise if there is anyone on the thread who has gone about trying to educate people in this way and ill tip my hat to you.
I beleive that the james16 and the group do go about teaching in this way but have not yet felt I can afford the course but am sure it is very helpfull and will hopefully take a look one day.

I do enjoy speaking to people in the forum, and do think it is a great help in ways. But I also care about quality of information and am sure that someone could find within themselves to get the ball rolling on how to REALY trade.

Leon
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Living the adventure in my head.
  • #2
  • Dec 4, 2007 3:26pm Dec 4, 2007 3:26pm
Has no'one herd of the 'universal systems' that supposedly exist?

The systems that run over all TF's?

They will be very simple, and will work on the simple basis of trends, trendlines and such.

Why do so many slate the lower TF's? because its harder to catch a profit using lagging indicators and the bigger impact spread has on a trade.

Also people talk about R:R and all else, and while I agree this is very important....... Not many seem to talk about something so simple but makes much difference.. Frequency!

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #3
  • Dec 4, 2007 3:49pm Dec 4, 2007 3:49pm
Lol, ive just received 2 PM's, Just to clarify what was ment by my last post...

I did not meen that I have a magical universal indicator/system, what I was saying is that trendlines/channels/sup-res works on all TFs and all crosses.

Sorry but im not the man with the wand!
Just to clear it up,

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #4
  • Dec 4, 2007 3:55pm Dec 4, 2007 3:55pm
wow man
how you discovered this!!

fabulous



another weekend thread
  • #5
  • Dec 4, 2007 3:57pm Dec 4, 2007 3:57pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Has no'one herd of the 'universal systems' that supposedly exist?

The systems that run over all TF's?

They will be very simple, and will work on the simple basis of trends, trendlines and such.

Why do so many slate the lower TF's? because its harder to catch a profit using lagging indicators and the bigger impact spread has on a trade.

Also people talk about R:R and all else, and while I agree this is very important....... Not many seem to talk about something so simple but makes much difference.. Frequency!

Leon
Universal System dont exist in Forex, because there are too many timeframes and timezones overlap each other.

"They will be very simple, and will work on the simple basis of trends, trendlines and such."

And what do you mean profitable trading system is simple??? They are hard to develop and most people still dont know how to get it!!

And yes, it become simple when you understand the logical of the human psychological in the markets....

Forex aint easy lol
Trainee at UBS Investment Banking
  • #6
  • Dec 4, 2007 4:09pm Dec 4, 2007 4:09pm
The reason people don't talk about this simple stuff is that indicators are seductive, sexy, and make it easy to program back tests. Even after 10 years I still check out the latest claims (and then abandon them a little later because they are less reliable and lag price patterns at S&R).

Personally I trade a chart with two emas on it (for a view of the trend). I also have a higher timeframe chart for a view of longer trend during the day and a daily chart with a few frequently respected mas on it.

Then I look for a price pattern into S&R, trading with the trend, and exit at S&R or target.

This is the same system I used to trade on 5 min euro futures 3 years ago, have traded on HSI futures for the last 3 years, have traded on daily commodities, and currently trade on Nikkei, Taiwan Stock Index Futures, SPI (Aus), EUR.JPY and EUR.USD. I just tune the mas, time and view of what this market's participants regard as support and resistance a little to match the market.



Regarding the frequency vs trade quality issue I personally favor trade quality (but my frequency is around 3 trades per day per market). I liked this post on another board:


Originally Posted by sath1 http://www.trade2win.com/boards/imag...s/viewpost.gif
the best traders in the world use in the markets ... they don't try to pick an edge that give them very high probability on the expense of opportunities ... the key is to take as much trades as you can with what seems to be a bad edge by most people ... in the long run and with superior money management method you will come out much more winner than with what seems "better edge" ... this is exactly what I do and this is why i live very good from trading this days ... http://www.trade2win.com/boards/imag...on_biggrin.gif

you cannot do what I just wrote if you don't have your mind set to think in probabilities - anything can happen, you don't need to know what the market will do next in order to make money, you cannot know in advance the sequence of winning vs losing trades you pull out of the markets , you have to believe at your edge that is just giving you higher probability that something is more likely to occur over something else and you believe without a shred of a doubt that every moment in the market is new - every second , hour , day or month is new meaning that every edge you see will have totally random outcome in relation to any other edge you took or will take ...

those are the secrets of successful traders - not many people are aware of them and thats why so few makes it in trading ... it is all about the way we think ...
  • #7
  • Dec 4, 2007 4:10pm Dec 4, 2007 4:10pm
Im sorry, and did no know what to expect when writing this thread, I should have been smarter.

Simple = not using wierd and wonderfull flashing indicators with bells, whistles and a strap'on vibrator for the ride.
A line(trendline) is simple, but usefull.

And the post by the 1kt member before I will take in an ecoraging manner as opposed to the sarcasm I first derived from it.

As an example.... we hear talk about WAITING for that good trade, and not overtrading, which im sure people who are learning have to deal with.
Most systems, for example, just following an MA, or some psar dots, you can enter at any time, and IMHO are bull.
Trading on a TL, you are waiting for that optimum entry, when its resting back waiting to take off.

leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #8
  • Dec 4, 2007 5:00pm Dec 4, 2007 5:00pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Any aspiring trader looking through the threads on this website will soon come to see that many of the trading systems with limited success that are built on the foundations of what they do not understand, and even the 'author' of this new and wonderfull system(haha yea, lol) does not understand.

Now, I often do need to give my head a wobble and consider the fact and reason for 99.9% of traders being in this forum is because THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TRADE yet, but, like sheep folowing another just as foolishly the long way around to the greener feild they continue.

Why do we not have some of the 1kt traders offering valuable, and sensible trading techniques, Things of most substance and value will always be:

Trendlines
Channels
S&R
Trend
Significant numbers(ie. the numbers the Fundie traders are looking at as important, 00 and 50.

Having been trading for a couple of years now, I can still not call myself any kind of expert, but I understand that this is the way forward and these are the things I should be looking at to develop my system around so that I can move forwards.

I find it very sadening that the majority of threads(correction: threads teaching systems) are made by people who kno little about what they are doing and are not employing these basic but so obviously fundamental techniques.

I apologise if there is anyone on the thread who has gone about trying to educate people in this way and ill tip my hat to you.
I beleive that the james16 and the group do go about teaching in this way but have not yet felt I can afford the course but am sure it is very helpfull and will hopefully take a look one day.

I do enjoy speaking to people in the forum, and do think it is a great help in ways. But I also care about quality of information and am sure that someone could find within themselves to get the ball rolling on how to REALY trade.

Leon

I am not replying to this because I consider myself an expert. I don't consider myself as experienced as many others...After all, I have been in the markets since April 2001 and this makes me only less than 7 years old, so I am still a kid especially when knowing that many traders are now 20+ years old...

However, if you visit this thread in the trading room, http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=46011 I assume that you will see something that you are looking for in your post...I don't teach systems or strategies because I am still learning myself and consequently a student can't teach except lower grade students and honeslty I need my time to learn rather than teach lower grade students, at least at the current state...

Now to your second part, don't look for the system or methodology when you are reading a thread discussing a system, search for the EDGE...This is what I do when I read threads here...I always look for the EDGE...If the thread is talking about a certain system or a strategy and I can't find an EDGE there, I stop reading...

The thread mentioned earlier in the trading room has a clear EDGE which I don't mind to share...The EDGE there is simply how I am searching for my EDGE...I trade markets that many don't trade except when they are hot and everyone is talking about them...I trade instruments that many are not trading at all...For example, in this thread, you will find that I am describing one of my earlier positions in Soybeans when almost nobody was watching this market in the first place...Then you will find another position (Which is still open till now) in wheat spreads, an area which I believe very few engage in....Currently I am heavily arbitraging the grain markets and believe it or not, despite the huge amount of traders engaged in this market right now, it works...The EDGE here is to arbitrage between the iliquid mini-electronic grain market and the semi-liquid mini-floor grain market...Believe it or not, it generates a lot of money...

Just look for the EDGE...This is just my opinion....


Thanks,

Nader
  • #9
  • Dec 5, 2007 1:46am Dec 5, 2007 1:46am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Im sorry, and did no know what to expect when writing this thread, I should have been smarter.

Simple = not using wierd and wonderfull flashing indicators with bells, whistles and a strap'on vibrator for the ride.
A line(trendline) is simple, but usefull.

And the post by the 1kt member before I will take in an ecoraging manner as opposed to the sarcasm I first derived from it.

As an example.... we hear talk about WAITING for that good trade, and not overtrading, which im sure people who are learning have to deal with.
Most systems, for example, just following an MA, or some psar dots, you can enter at any time, and IMHO are bull.
Trading on a TL, you are waiting for that optimum entry, when its resting back waiting to take off.

leon
what you did is what every newbie do when he knew something new to him, thinking he know what the others don't know, he think he discovered the holy grail, ...

just search the forum and you'll found alot of similar threads
every weekend, and after many hits in the market, he look again at the charts for hour or two then come here and say WE did it wrong, why WE use indicators at all, I found it, everything YOU know about Forex is wrong, etc

as you see, he don't want to admit he is the one who was wrong not the others
and this is the biggest problem!!
He always think he is right, genius
he always think the market is the wrong side
he always think he knew something that nobody know
he always think he is the Real Deal!
etc

and because this, HE WILL NEVER LEARN AND WILL NEVER WIN until he change this thinking

again
there is nothing that can quickly make a man as humble as the markets can

you don't need to be smart to trade successfully, you don't need to be scientist, genius, rich to do it

just believe in that:what you need to do it is to be a stupid machine and don't feed the EGO

and for the forum

people and admins here cant force people to learn,
they cant force new trader here to go and browse the Beginner section
they cant force anyone to read Isotonic threads about the basics and TLs and DOW theory
they cant force anyone to read Money Management threads and discussions by diallist
they cant force people how the experienced traders do it (as Nader show you in his post)
they cant force anyone to read posts by WHTenn, SeekingLight, PeterFM,Igrok, ...
they cant prevent people from browsing the systems section!!

he must did it by himself
but first of all, he must admit he didn't knew much, and for every point he knew there are 100 points he didn't know ..

and for your discovery about TLs
just read more about it, there are alot YOU still don't know about it :
  • #10
  • Dec 5, 2007 6:58am Dec 5, 2007 6:58am
Quoting benssol
what you did is what every newbie do when he knew something new to him, thinking he know what the others don't know, he think he discovered the holy grail, ...

just search the forum and you'll found alot of similar threads
every weekend, and after many hits in the market, he look again at the charts for hour or two then come here and say WE did it wrong, why WE use indicators at all, I found it, everything YOU know about Forex is wrong, etc

as you see, he don't want to admit he is the one who was wrong not the others
and this is the biggest problem!!

and because this, HE WILL NEVER LEARN AND WILL NEVER WIN until he change this thinking

again
there is nothing that can quickly make a man as humble as the markets can

you don't need to be smart to trade successfully, you don't need to be scientist, genius, rich to do it

just believe in that:what you need to do it is to be a stupid machine and don't feed the EGO

and for the forum

people and admins here cant force people to learn,
they cant force new trader here to go and browse the Beginner section
they cant force anyone to read Isotonic threads about the basics and TLs and DOW theory
they cant force anyone to read Money Management threads and discussions by diallist
they cant force people how the experienced traders do it (as Nader show you in his post)
they cant force anyone to read posts by WHTenn, SeekingLight, PeterFM,Igrok, ...
they cant prevent people from browsing the systems section!!

he must did it by himself
but first of all, he must admit he didn't knew much, and for every point he knew there are 100 points he didn't know ..

and for your discovery about TLs
just read more about it, there are alot YOU still don't know about it :
1. Not a newbie

2.I think Im the only person who knows about trendlines??

3.When did I say TL's are the grail?

4.I did not blame anyone for anything did I?, was just pointing out for others benefit that price and its patterns should be their main concern.

5. In the 'He..He..He' part of the speech who was being refered to?

6.'and for your discovery about TLs, just read more about it, there are alot YOU still don't know about it' this isnt something I descovered this morning after tea and biscuits strangely enough.

The guy who thinks hes superior has the furthest to fall, and that isnt a quote, just something to remember.

Have a good and profitable day.

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #11
  • Last Post: Dec 5, 2007 11:41am Dec 5, 2007 11:41am
may be someone else who asked this question

Quoting Leonlorenzo
Does this NOT work?
just reread your words

Quoting Leonlorenzo
Any aspiring trader looking through the threads on this website will soon come to see that many of the trading systems with limited success that are built on the foundations of what they do not understand, and even the 'author' of this new and wonderfull system(haha yea, lol) does not understand.
again
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Now, I often do need to give my head a wobble and consider the fact and reason for 99.9% of traders being in this forum is because THEY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TRADE yet, but, like sheep folowing another just as foolishly the long way around to the greener feild they continue.
and the question is

Quoting Leonlorenzo
Why do we not have some of the 1kt traders offering valuable, and sensible trading techniques, Things of most substance and value will always be:
yes why???

and the things are

Quoting Leonlorenzo
Trendlines
Channels
S&R
Trend
Significant numbers(ie. the numbers the Fundie traders are looking at as important, 00 and 50.
so

Quoting Leonlorenzo
I find it very sadening that the majority of threads(correction: threads teaching systems) are made by people who kno little about what they are doing and are not employing these basic but so obviously fundamental techniques.
Quoting Leonlorenzo
I do enjoy speaking to people in the forum, and do think it is a great help in ways. But I also care about quality of information and am sure that someone could find within themselves to get the ball rolling on how to REALY trade.
Ok, I did it again, I think I'll never learn the simple fact that " the market will do it in the best way", so go on my friend and have profitable days

I'm sorry if any of my posts pissed you off as you said in the PM
don't be offended, I just bored from this thread's type
the weekend threads
so forgive me, and fell free to delete my posts

just remember there is no shame in being a new trader as long as being on the right way
a winner newbie is better than loser expert
the time dosent matter
I can show you a stock trader has 15 yrs experience and he never win

again, the market is the best immortal teacher
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