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Self Help Regurgitation

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 1, 2007 1:07am Dec 1, 2007 1:07am
Is it just me, or am I the only one just a little bit tired of reading quotes like these....

"In 'Reminicences of a Stock Operator,' Jessie Livermoore said blah blah blah"

"Steve Nison's 'Candlestick Patterns' says blah blah blah"

"William Eckart and Richard Dennis blah blah blah"

"You're losing, man? Just stick with the system...."

"Patience, focus, and rules make a great trader."

The list is countless. They all add up to the same thing..... EXCUSES. Let's step back a moment and think about what is really happening here. Calling each other "bro" on the threads isn't going to improve your results. Nor is asking somebody else to make an EA for the latest flash in the pan moving average system.

Forex is survival of the fittest, not survival of the neediest. When you have confidence in your own risk analysis, THAT's when you actually have a shot at making some money.

There are people that can badmouth this post. A very few FFers are consistently profiting, and consequently have a right to contradict me. I just get very tired of people thinking that successful trading is the result of copying the thought processes of a few traders that became famous and wrote books.

In summary, very few have what it takes to succeed. Newbies, when you read FF threads, keep in mind that the majority of people posting are unqualified, uneducated, and frankly newbies themselves. Even 1KTers should be scrutinized in their directives.
  • #2
  • Dec 1, 2007 1:38am Dec 1, 2007 1:38am
  •  mld
  • | Joined Sep 2007 | Status: Pips Raining Cats & Dogs | 85 Posts
Enjoy these quotes
You must understand it, go into it, examine it, give your heart and your mind, with everything that you have, that depends on you, and not on someone else, because in this there is no teacher, no pupil; there is no leader; there is no guru; there is no Master, no Saviour. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil; you are the Master; you are the guru; you are the leader; you are everything.
The moment you acknowledge another as a master and yourself as a pupil, you are denying truth. There is no master, no pupil, in the search for truth.
If you are very clear, if you are inwardly a light unto yourself, you will never follow anyone.
You must know for yourself, directly, the truth of Forex lol and you cannot realize it through another, however great. There is no authority that can reveal it.
be a pip
mld
  • #3
  • Dec 1, 2007 1:56am Dec 1, 2007 1:56am
If what you're trying to say is, to survive in the FX market, you have to be your ownself instead of trying to imitate others and succeed by copying the rest.

I totally agree with you. The majority of people who start trading FX fail so the best thing to do is to actually go against the crowd instead of trying to follow them
  • #4
  • Edited 2:23am Dec 1, 2007 1:59am | Edited 2:23am
Hi Jody

"Going against the crowd" is kind of a blanket statement.... what I really meant was that being a mindless lemming, and memorizing some books isn't what keeps you around long term.

There ARE good things in books, but you have to be skeptical about what you read, and think about it.
  • #5
  • Dec 1, 2007 4:15am Dec 1, 2007 4:15am
Film at 11. I mean, I almost pulled out a handkerchief there, this was very touching.

Quoting mld
Enjoy these quotes
You must understand it, go into it, examine it, give your heart and your mind, with everything that you have, that depends on you, and not on someone else, because in this there is no teacher, no pupil; there is no leader; there is no guru; there is no Master, no Saviour. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil; you are the Master; you are the guru; you are the leader; you are everything.
The moment you acknowledge another as a master and yourself as a pupil, you are denying truth. There is no master, no pupil, in the search for truth.
If you are very clear, if you are inwardly a light unto yourself, you will never follow anyone.
You must know for yourself, directly, the truth of Forex lol and you cannot realize it through another, however great. There is no authority that can reveal it.
be a pip
mld
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #6
  • Dec 1, 2007 5:06am Dec 1, 2007 5:06am
Quoting tdion
Is it just me, or am I the only one just a little bit tired of reading quotes like these....

"In 'Reminicences of a Stock Operator,' Jessie Livermoore said blah blah blah"

"Steve Nison's 'Candlestick Patterns' says blah blah blah"

"William Eckart and Richard Dennis blah blah blah"

"You're losing, man? Just stick with the system...."

"Patience, focus, and rules make a great trader."
Actually the longer I trade the more I realize what I have found as "truths" for me ends up being the same thing "one of those guys" used to say and quote in books. I just never read them

Quote
The list is countless. They all add up to the same thing..... EXCUSES.
Nah, they're truths. Excuses is what the people make after they say but don't FOLLOW these truths. That's the ironic part. They do know how to say "bro" rather well though and post them funny pictures.

If people actually followed these things they wouldn't need to constantly quote them to each other as they'd be too busy actually getting somewhere.

This is basically the same thing you're hinting at with
Quote
Calling each other "bro" on the threads isn't going to improve your results.
You have to do something about it, not SAY something about it.
But people sure do love to post/argue(the obvious)/talk.

Quote
I just get very tired of people thinking that successful trading is the result of copying the thought processes of a few traders that became famous and wrote books.
You got it wrong.
It's:
Successful trading is the result of copying the actions and beliefs of traders that became profitable.

Quote
In summary, very few have what it takes to succeed.
Very few choose to accept and transform it into action, yes.

Quote
Newbies, when you read FF threads, keep in mind that the majority of people posting are unqualified, uneducated, and frankly newbies themselves. Even 1KTers should be scrutinized in their directives.
Indeed.
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #7
  • Dec 1, 2007 5:13am Dec 1, 2007 5:13am
Quoting mld
because in this there is no teacher, no pupil; there is no leader; there is no guru; there is no Master, no Saviour. You yourself are the teacher and the pupil; you are the Master; you are the guru; you are the leader; you are everything.




I hope all that esoteric BS was just sarcasm.

People that think they should start in FX by disputing those that have consistently shown success are those that need to blow 3-5 accounts before either quitting or wisening up and actually listening what those people 3-5 accounts ago tried to tell them then.

Most people muddling along think they're smarter than others and are unable to accept true advice. This is their main shortcoming.
Those that come with the will and perspective to learn will learn.

Pretty simple.

Quote
The moment you acknowledge another as a master and yourself as a pupil, you are denying truth.

The moment you acknowledge another as a master and yourself as a pupil, you are accepting truth.
You don't go to driving school, tell the instructor he's a retard, and go on to smash on the gas, either. If you do, you make a crash and die.
Same with FX.

You can't just pick up a trumpet and be another Dizzy Gillespie, you just MIGHT have to actually LEARN HOW TO DO IT, first.

Learning is done by students, teaching by teachers. This is such a simple and common truth one or two societies on earth ACTUALLY invented this oddball thing called an education system.
Weird, I know, but they've this odd belief that it just might work.
Silly people.
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #8
  • Dec 1, 2007 5:46am Dec 1, 2007 5:46am
Sorry SL, but I think YOU got it wrong.

Case and point: I go to Barnes and Noble and pick up "Forex Made Easy." Seems like a great book full of pennants, head and shoulders, double bottoms, etc.... GREAT I think to myself, the experts are helping me.... I am going to be profitable.

WRONG!!!

The purpose of books is to SELL books..... the majority of the forex pattern formations are old wives tales.... The obligation of the publishing company in our capitalist society is to exploit people's ignorance about forex, AND SELL BOOKS.

James16 does have some nice patterns, I will say.

What about "Candlestick Patterns" by Steve Nison? Well, there might be some truth to it, IF WE HAD VOLUME in Forex. Throw it out the window.... candlesticks are worthless without volume.

So..... next we have the infamous 'reminiscence of a stock operator.' Okay, he was trading in a different era (without computers trading against him, etc.) It simply doesn't apply today IMHO.

Quoting SeekingLight
You got it wrong.
It's:
Successful trading is the result of copying the actions and beliefs of traders that became profitable.
  • #9
  • Dec 1, 2007 6:40am Dec 1, 2007 6:40am
why are you always complaining that technical analysis doesn't work and ppl giving advice are unqualified why are you always talking about what does not work ? try to get rid of your skeptism for a while.. just for a change
  • #10
  • Dec 1, 2007 6:45am Dec 1, 2007 6:45am
Quoting tdion
Sorry SL, but I think YOU got it wrong.
You just need to understand what I wrote.

Quote
Case and point: I go to Barnes and Noble and pick up "Forex Made Easy." Seems like a great book full of pennants, head and shoulders, double bottoms, etc.... GREAT I think to myself, the experts are helping me.... I am going to be profitable.

WRONG!!!

The purpose of books is to SELL books..... the majority of the forex pattern formations are old wives tales.... The obligation of the publishing company in our capitalist society is to exploit people's ignorance about forex, AND SELL BOOKS.

James16 does have some nice patterns, I will say.
Then just go to James16 instead? I don't see the point at all.
There you can say "experts are helping me.... I am going to be profitable." and no doubt about it. And it won't just be in paper form.
The new site has a chatroom, videos and will also end up featuring interactive whiteboards and so much more eventually.
And no, this isn't promotion, signups are closed for now for the transition.

Don't blame it on the books or others that there isn't profitability.
It comes down to what I just posted - if you're willing to learn, you will.
There are enough examples to go around.

Also - the only "obligation" of a publisher is to profitably publish what appears marketable. Whether it actually works or not is irrelevant to them. Don't be paranoid.

As for which patterns work or don't - in my experience it's not the patterns failing but the people trying to "force" them onto their charts that do the failing usually. Knowing and applying yourself is another step in going forward, but not identical.

I've made all the fun mistakes myself in the past to know the difference I feel.

Quote
What about "Candlestick Patterns" by Steve Nison? Well, there might be some truth to it, IF WE HAD VOLUME in Forex. Throw it out the window.... candlesticks are worthless without volume.
If you say so. I think that's a load of BS. Never saw the relevance of volume. Stocks are stocks, FX is FX.
Bullish/bearish engulfing candles are just the same as BUOB/BEOBs, same for inside bars and doji/PBs.

Nison himself said you actually have to use the stuff like it's intended to.
He said a lot of people see a doji and go woohoo a reversal; he points out all it does for him is shift direction from up or down to neutral.

I'd say with setups you can't just randomly pick out any bar; you have to know "where" you actually are, too.

People have to actually comprehend what they're being taught, too, and not selectively ignore, forget, omit or personally try and supercede something they haven't implemented properly yet.
("Oh, bullish engulfing bars exist, let me run to my charts and randomly pick out any and all remotely looking like that...what do you mean there's more to it? Location? Surroundings? Aww man, and I thought knowing one thing was enough!")

Haven't read Nison(again, I don't read books, I believe any FX book is a waste of 80% of the pages as the information can be represented in a compressed 10-20 page summary of core essentials), but bars are bars, candles are candles and s/r is s/r, everywhere.

Quote
So..... next we have the infamous 'reminiscence of a stock operator.' Okay, he was trading in a different era (without computers trading against him, etc.) It simply doesn't apply today IMHO.
Quoting Livermore
It was only after going broke twice and then making much less profit in a raging bull market than he would have expected to that Livermore realized he was trading like a sucker. He was losing his profit because he was trading every day for the sake of trading. This, he realized, made him a "Wall Street Fool".
That and more is still true. From
http://www.jesse-livermore.com/tradi...s-suckers.html

If you think this doesn't apply anymore today then I can't help you.
A lot can be learned from Jesse in regards to human shortcomings and behavior then you can still see every day on FF now.

As for how he traded:
http://www.jesse-livermore.com/price-patterns.html

Breakouts are some of the most effective ways to trade even now still(Big timeframe inside bars are usually nothing other than just that. EURGBP's monthly IB, USDJPY's daily IB 2-3 days ago, etc).

A computer interface is not going to change that if price goes up, it's a good idea to be long and if it's going down, selling isn't that bad.

Pretending markets are super smart, geared to hunt your stop and generally outweasel you is just an excuse for not waiting for good enough trades, not showing discipline and trading every day since hey, if they're always out to get you, it doesn't matter when you try and outweasel the weasel, right?
Paranoia again.

Computers don't trade against you. Well, aside from the fact that computers themselves don't trade unless someone programs them. But automated trading systems then. They actually go WITH the flow. All the boring computer based funds seem to be trend following oil tankers. So really you're getting HELPED by them as long as you do not fight the trend for most of the time.
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #11
  • Dec 1, 2007 6:51am Dec 1, 2007 6:51am
Why? So I can be like you?

I mean, SOMEBODY has got to be skeptical around here..... especially when most people DON'T know what they are talking about.... that most systems DON'T work..... and that I AM profitable.

See ya.

Quoting Mina
why are you always complaining that technical analysis doesn't work and ppl giving advice are unqualified why are you always talking about what does not work ? try to get rid of your skeptism for a while.. just for a change
  • #12
  • Dec 1, 2007 6:59am Dec 1, 2007 6:59am
What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

I agree with the first post. Hero worshiping another trader and praising them is not going to make you a better trader. Find what works for you and leave it at that.
  • #13
  • Edited 8:08am Dec 1, 2007 7:00am | Edited 8:08am
I am profitable. The purpose of this thread is to discourage newbies from being brainwashed. To step outside the box and stop wasting their money on books and systems, and start asking WHY. If you are already brainwashed, you wouldn't know it anyway, and would probably type an essay defending the books.

Quoting SeekingLight
Don't blame it on the books or others that there isn't profitability.
As for "computers were programmed by people," ever hear of a neural network? The computer basically programs itself.... like the "Better" NN that racked up 800% returns in October in the MQL championship
  • #14
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:01am Dec 1, 2007 7:01am
Quoting tdion
Why? So I can be like you?

I mean, SOMEBODY has got to be skeptical around here..... especially when most people DON'T know what they are talking about.... that most systems DON'T work..... and that I AM profitable.

See ya.
you know nothing about me so no need to turn this personal.
And I'm glad you're are profitable but why do you need to brag about it?
and since you're a big shot making zillions everyday why dnt u talk about what works instead of bitching about everything that doesn't work and flooding the forums with threads like bash this system and self help regurgitation ??
  • #15
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:04am Dec 1, 2007 7:04am
It's obvious you don't like my posts, so why don't you just stop reading my threads?

It's better that way. Thanks.

PS) I would hardly call 2 threads "flooding the forums," drama queen. Did it occur to you that some people will AGREE with these threads, and that the purpose of the thread is not to please YOU.

Quoting Mina
you know nothing about me so no need to turn this personal.
And I'm glad you're are profitable but why do you need to brag about it?
and since you're a big shot making zillions everyday why dnt u talk about what works instead of bitching about everything that doesn't work and flooding the forums with threads like bash this system and self help regurgitation ??
  • #16
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:09am Dec 1, 2007 7:09am
Quoting tdion
Why? So I can be like you?

I mean, SOMEBODY has got to be skeptical around here..... especially when most people DON'T know what they are talking about.... that most systems DON'T work..... and that I AM profitable.

See ya.
you seem really angry and frustrated. are you sure your system works and you are profitable?? :
  • #17
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:11am Dec 1, 2007 7:11am
Why are people bashing the main post? I don't see anything wrong with it :S

Its true most of the useful threads here would be better without all the sucking up.
  • #18
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:12am Dec 1, 2007 7:12am
I wouldn't have posted it otherwise. Why don't you look at my journal.

Quoting no0odle
you seem really angry and frustrated. are you sure your system works and you are profitable?? :
  • #19
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:19am Dec 1, 2007 7:19am
Quoting tdion
It's obvious you don't like my posts, so why don't you just stop reading my threads? It's better that way. Thanks.
you post on a PUBLIC forum if you don't want ppl to read just post it in your diaries plus I noticed you have this template ready to answer anyone who disagrees with you. grow up!

Quoting tdion
I would hardly call 2 threads "flooding the forums," drama queen.
2 are you sure ?
Quoting tdion
Did it occur to you that some people will AGREE with these threads, and that the purpose of the thread is not to please YOU.
believe it or not I agree to most of the points you mentioned in the first post and I don't use "systems" I trade discritionally, what I was creticizing was just you skeptism but somehow you perceived it that way
  • #20
  • Dec 1, 2007 7:24am Dec 1, 2007 7:24am
Quoting SeekingLight
Actually the longer I trade the more I realize what I have found as "truths" for me ends up being the same thing "one of those guys" used to say and quote in books. I just never read them
The key here is the words "what I have found as 'truths' for me".

That is exactly the whole point.

For every piece of advice, the exact opposite is coming from another "expert".

Traders have to figure out for themselves what it all means -- what is true for THEM, what is not, and for things that are true, WHEN they are, and WHEN they're not!

This doesn't mean that you can't read books. You have to get data from people who are succeeding. Or you can re-invent the wheel. I don't know which way is faster.

I have learned a few things on FF. I have also fallen to the grail syndrome, when I lose, I try another system, then another, then before I knew it months passed and I was still not winning. I don't blame FF for slowing me down, it was I that did this. FF may have been the "enabler", but my own impatience was the real cause.

Why are people here? Some obviously like to brag, make others feel small, and even lead them astray, all in the guise of "help". Others might be agent provocateurs working for brokers, purposely teaching things that will cause thousands of newbies to blow account after account, feeding millions of dollars into the bucket shops' coffers. Laugh if you want. They are dirty, they are making easy money from FX newbies, don't kid yourself.

But I think most people come here for help, cameraderie, and approval. Most traders, and most on here, are not winning. It's a place for people to lick their wounds and talk to others that have been there, or still are.
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