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Tips & Tricks from the full time traders??

  • #41
  • Nov 28, 2007 8:52am Nov 28, 2007 8:52am
Scott's post is correct.

It has nothing to do with setting a stop.

Part of developing a system is deciding on an appropriate stop.

Most intra-day traders use a 15-30 pip stop.

If you are trading on a longer time frame your stop will be higher.

Money management is - What do I plan to risk on each trade?

When you have a system that fits your trading personality the next step will be determining risk/trade.

Many traders starting out risk 10-20% per trade.

That's account suicide.

If you have a small account ($1000.00 or less) it might be a good idea to risk 1-2% per trade.
  • #42
  • Nov 28, 2007 8:59am Nov 28, 2007 8:59am
price action and screen time , discipline n patience will eventually come with experience of losing ... i ain't a very successful trader yet but i believe screen time is the key other than understanding price action ...
To Live is the rarest thing in the world , Most people exist , that is all
  • #43
  • Nov 28, 2007 8:59am Nov 28, 2007 8:59am
I cannot set a SL that is 1% of my AB far from the enter - it will always be hitIn another view i'd say - i always set SLs at an exact highs and lows - they get always hit and the price goes backward but without me. Too tight ? But Setting logical SLs with "3% loss" rule will make me 0.03 % per day etc, it's not really interesting (but i suppose it will be interesting if smbd gives me 10K and i will trade 0.03% per day..)
  • #44
  • Nov 28, 2007 9:00am Nov 28, 2007 9:00am
Quoting vasyan
Is that idea laying in such Your trade consists of two dependable numbers : a distance from entry price and the place where you see your setup got broken. This distance (in pips) defines an amount of trade through this "3% lose". If on $1000 account balance you see your SL at least 50 pips then - 1000 x 3% = $30 (you should not lose any more in one trade).
30 \ 50 pips = $0.6\1pips, so you go trade 0.6x100x100= $6000. Right?
The blue part is wrong. you need to know the PIPVALUE for the pair you are trading for a standard lot of 100k units. So if you are trading EURUSD that amount is $10 if you are trading GBPJPY that amount right now is $9.09
(this is all based in calcualtions in USD) if you are using a different deposit currency, you will have to convert to that currency.

So your calc should read
1000 * 3% = $30
30 / 50 pips = 0.6
0.6 / pipvalue EURUSD ( $10 ) = 0.06 lots

Which means each pip with this lot size is worth $0.60

So 0.60 * 50 pip stoploss = $30 which is the 3% you wanted to risk.
  • #45
  • Nov 28, 2007 9:06am Nov 28, 2007 9:06am
Here’s an example:

Let’s say I open an account with $1000.00.

The system I trade – a pivot point system allows me a 20 pip stop.

I’ve decided that I’m going to risk 2% per trade.

The next step is to determine 2% of $1000.00.

We calculate this to be $20. (1000 X .02)

Our max risk will be $20/trade.

Our stop is 20 pips.

So – each pip will be $1. (20/20 = 1)
  • #46
  • Nov 28, 2007 9:19am Nov 28, 2007 9:19am
.. then you should trade 10K broker's money, you must add ... right?Ok, these last two comments make it absolutely clear for me (thanks a lot)..What i did want to point to is, by the way, that the SL technique IS the most (if not the one).. difficulties that make my trading boring.. If you see my screenshots (with my trades) you'll always see me sitting with my SL hit, smth like a passanger on the railway platform , missed a train.. Entries are all relatively good ("trains" go very far in 90%), but SLs.. make me think to give up setting SLs at all sometimes .. My friends tell me - Do not set it at all!...)
  • #47
  • Nov 28, 2007 5:51pm Nov 28, 2007 5:51pm
I see some doubts in this system still .. Say i have $100. An average SL should be set at at least 50 pips from the current price of EURUSD. The max loss i have to have $3. These $3 will be done through 50 pips.These pips then be equal to ($3 \ 50p=) $0.06. To trade at $o.o6 a pip i have to trade $ 600 (mine is $6 and leveraged by 1:100 it'll be $600 of broker's money). In such conditions i have to multiply my Acc Bal by 6 ! (simple, and so called effective or etc. leverage). 1 my AccBal X 6 . Every time. Is that all right? (1)(2) But what makes me doubting is that - if i want to win 3 while risking 1, then i have to seek for a trade with potential 150 pips move. || Will i find it often enough ?OR Will it happen often enough that i entered (with 50 pp SL) and then i didn't (the price didn't) reach that 150 pp target ? (I think it'll be in 98% of times..) then ? I will end up with say 70 pips profit and it won't be 3\1 RR.. ... What do you say ? ...
  • #48
  • Nov 28, 2007 6:24pm Nov 28, 2007 6:24pm
Quoting daytrading
Hi Jen -

here are a few essentials I have learned in my past 20+ years of trading:

Ask yourself how you perceive the markets - what are your specific beliefs about the market?

Build a method based on your beliefs - then trade that method without questioning it. (your discipline is the key)

I give you as an example my own beliefs: (don't worry, they can be different from your own)

A: Prices change (my main principle belief, although not enough on its own to convince me that I can make money from it)

B: Trends exist (overriding principle; main belief and basis for construction of method)

C: Every price move has a counter move (secondary priciple and essential to confirm B)

And last but not least, when constructing a method based upon evaluation of your beliefs, don't get too hung up on indicators initially.

If you decide to use an indicator, it should be based on what you want the indicator to tell you based on your beliefs....not the other way around like many people do. Many people choose to believe in indicators/studies and try to build a system around it.

regards
daytrading
This is a very interesting concept, very good advice. I've never heard it explained like this! Think I've got some changes to make.....
Also, I've been wanting to learn more about using Pivot Points, but how would they work with a 4H timeframe? Or are they mostly used with 1H or less? I like to use the 4H because I can't trade during the day.
Jen
  • #49
  • Nov 29, 2007 3:46am Nov 29, 2007 3:46am
Hi Jen,

I hoe someone else might come forward with explanations and tips how to use pivot points - I simply don't know enough about them to give qualified advice.

The only indicator I find useful myself is a modified version of the Parabolic Stop&Reverse - because of its ability to show the relationship between price and time. (again, this is a personal belief/preference)

The 4hour time frame is very useful imo to gauge trends, especially if you want to trade intraday, but I wouldn't limit myself to that.

Without meaning to confuse you, I give an example of I use charts according to my beliefs:

For all "holding periods" - my trades can last for several hours to several weeks - I use 4 time frames. (I use bar charts in one colour only - no difference between up-bar and down-bar; I don't care whether a candlestick indicates a doji or some other pattern - I want to see the trend, and the trend is more than just a few bars/candles)

A: the daily chart for discernind the dominant price movements or trends.

B: the 4hour chart for gauging trend segments and counter moves

C: the 1hour chart for entry/exit position in trend direction (only); those are the trades that usually last several days to weeks and signals are not that frequent - remeber, major trends don't change every few days.

D: the 5min chart for entry/exit position in counter move (or ranges); these trades can last for hours (intraday) to occasionally days.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't assiciate the time frame with a "holding period" of your trades - or limit yourself to it. As you can see, I am using a 5min chart although I am not scalping....by the same token, I use a daily chart and I am not an investor either.

Extract the parts of information from the charts you really need, as much or as little as you see fit for your method - don't limit yourself (i.e. using only one time frame) and don't take on too much (i.e. clutter every chart with tons of indicators)

I hope that helps.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #50
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:08am Nov 29, 2007 6:08am
there is one trick im testing this week,...go in a couple times try to get a good average price,..then after +10 pips at least, lock 1.5pip,...and turn the monitor off for an hour or 2,...am trying to trade dailly breakouts, and since my personality canot stand seeing profits too long,...i tried that,..so far it works...but man i wona go in, and close them, or adjust the stops way up,...very hard for a temperamento persona...:
its just money
  • #51
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:20am Nov 29, 2007 6:20am
Thanks daytrader,

Your explanation helps alot. I see I really have been limiting myself by only looking at the 4H charts. I would always get so confused by all the 'noise' on the lower timeframes, but I see just using them to time entries, and to use them to look at the whole picture can prove quite beneficial.

Thanks for all your great insight, and taking the time to help out.
Jen
  • #52
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:41am Nov 29, 2007 6:41am
Quoting de123
there is one trick im testing this week,...go in a couple times try to get a good average price,..then after +10 pips at least, lock 1.5pip,...and turn the monitor off for an hour or 2,...am trying to trade dailly breakouts, and since my personality canot stand seeing profits too long,...i tried that,..so far it works...but man i wona go in, and close them, or adjust the stops way up,...very hard for a temperamento persona...:

DE123,

...hahaha, I used to be a sucker for taking my chips off the table too often too early....it certainly dented my P&L over the long run.

If you look at the main time-frames where the trend can actually be "seen without having an indicator telling you", i.e. 4h and over, and you have entered on a 1hour basis for example, switch to those longer time-frames and you will be surprised how much more scope your position might have - given that you trade in tren direction of course. (if you're in on the 1hour chart and you switch subsequently to the 5min chart to track your position, that 10 pip move looks pretty big and sure it tells you it's time to take profits.)

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #53
  • Nov 29, 2007 7:07am Nov 29, 2007 7:07am
Quoting je9265
Thanks daytrader,

Your explanation helps alot. I see I really have been limiting myself by only looking at the 4H charts. I would always get so confused by all the 'noise' on the lower timeframes, but I see just using them to time entries, and to use them to look at the whole picture can prove quite beneficial.

Thanks for all your great insight, and taking the time to help out.
Jen
Jen,

you're welcome.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #54
  • Nov 29, 2007 11:12am Nov 29, 2007 11:12am
  •  TrevA
  • | Joined Oct 2007 | Status: my brain has a mind of its own | 166 Posts
Quoting vasyan
.. then you should trade 10K broker's money, you must add ... right?Ok, these last two comments make it absolutely clear for me (thanks a lot)..What i did want to point to is, by the way, that the SL technique IS the most (if not the one).. difficulties that make my trading boring.. If you see my screenshots (with my trades) you'll always see me sitting with my SL hit, smth like a passanger on the railway platform , missed a train.. Entries are all relatively good ("trains" go very far in 90%), but SLs.. make me think to give up setting SLs at all sometimes .. My friends tell me - Do not set it at all!...)
Vasyan

I understand what you are saying but are you setting SL's relative to the nearest support/resistance level. A 2 pip SL can be just as effective as a 200 pip SL provided that you put it outside of the volatility range.

For those who do not already know, this single tip can save you a lot of money - A support/resistance level can act like a force field slowing, if not completely stopping prices from going higher or lower so if you're not already doing this, make sure you put your SL behind the protective support/resistance line. Why make your SL a free ranging target to volatility. While nothing in Forex is 100% safe, this tip puts the odds in your favor.

TrevA
  • #55
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:37pm Nov 29, 2007 6:37pm
Quoting de123
there is one trick im testing this week,...go in a couple times try to get a good average price,..then after +10 pips at least, lock 1.5pip,...and turn the monitor off for an hour or 2,...am trying to trade dailly breakouts, and since my personality canot stand seeing profits too long,...i tried that,..so far it works...but man i wona go in, and close them, or adjust the stops way up,...very hard for a temperamento persona...:
Careful bro, this game is about making pips. Sounds like your analysis is going well but let them mature. Train your personality.
  • #56
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:41pm Nov 29, 2007 6:41pm
hi...

I am not sure if we are confusing the original issues here...

Adding to the original trading method might not be needed at all..


I think getting back to the basics of the method is the way to go..

1/ check or fix money management
2/ controlled trading...waiting for the signal...


They were the problems....and untill those are cleaned up...there is no point adding confusion ...with other timeframes...and other indicators..
  • #57
  • Nov 29, 2007 6:52pm Nov 29, 2007 6:52pm
Quoting Angler
hi...

I am not sure if we are confusing the original issues here...

Adding to the original trading method might not be needed at all..


I think getting back to the basics of the method is the way to go..

1/ check or fix money management
2/ controlled trading...waiting for the signal...


They were the problems....and untill those are cleaned up...there is no point adding confusion ...with other timeframes...and other indicators..
The question is, from the point of view of a newbie, where does the signal come from? At the end of the day, we need a reliable signal and that is the difficulty. Of course money management is important but that should come after the reliable signal.
  • #58
  • Nov 29, 2007 7:14pm Nov 29, 2007 7:14pm
hi...


The original poster had a system but was still losing money..but she identified a few areas where she was failing...

Thats why I say....sort out the issues first...adding more things to look at will only make things worse if those original issues are not fixed first.

Maybe it is suppose to be more general than I assumed.
  • #59
  • Nov 29, 2007 8:10pm Nov 29, 2007 8:10pm
Trading is very tricky and very risky.

My 2c worth of advice is :

You cannot force a trade you need to sit a lot of the time on your hands and wait patiently for things to line up. Tonight was an excellent example on the EuroYen all Tf;s showed the same direction ( it was for a buy around 1:00 on m4 charts) then you know you cannot go wrong. This is the time to trade. When not to enter is eg when daily says up, 4h says down, 1h says up etc.

Also get quick indicators. Lagging indicators or settings that are lagging are no good either.
Another thing good info is important. Those who says they only look at candle formations and supprt and resistant lines for example I admire the fact that they can make consistantly money. I have been trading for many years and I have found if I look at many indicators I get a good picture of what is happening right now and it has helped me to trade so much better.
Good luck !
  • #60
  • Nov 29, 2007 8:18pm Nov 29, 2007 8:18pm
Quoting Angler
hi...


The original poster had a system but was still losing money..but she identified a few areas where she was failing...

Thats why I say....sort out the issues first...adding more things to look at will only make things worse if those original issues are not fixed first.

Maybe it is suppose to be more general than I assumed.
Yes, getting the signal right is the most important thing. There are many ways of doing it but I have learnt that support and resistance is the most important signal I understand. Let the test of time prove it then learn to manage your trades. Two very important skills, but a newbie wont learn them unless fortunate or guided.
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