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Problem with Broker

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 2, 2007 1:37am Jan 2, 2007 1:37am
hey guys beware of FXCM. this is my real story with FXCM. I placed a sell order on FXCM on friday morning (dec 29 ) for eur/usd at 1.3210 with a stop loss at 1.3221. i tried to remove the order on friday, however, I was just one minute late (4:01 PM EST) and they closed the dealing desk and didn't allow me to remove the order. they didn't open the dealing desk until January 2, 2AM EST.
In the mean time i tried to talk to them so that i can remove the order, but no result. When finally they opened the dealing desk the price was already around 1.3240 and they executed my sell order at 1.3210 and stop loss at 1.3221 at 2:22 AM and they didn't allow me to remove my order at all from 2AM to 2:22 AM. when I talked to them over phone, they told that since you placed the order, even if the market gapped, our dealing desk is closed we will execute the order and stop out you! This is robbery in open day light! you will never see this type of thing with any reputed broker. beware of FXCM! Leave FXCM as early as you can.
  • #2
  • Jan 2, 2007 1:57am Jan 2, 2007 1:57am
How about this one, today IBFX pumped though some data about 5 hours before they were supposed to open, this triggered my EA to trade, they then froze the feed so I could not close my trades...of course the market gapped into my stop losses by the time it opened. Here is the transcript with support...

Customer Service Rep 2: Hi, this is ******, how may I help you?
you: I didn't think the markets were open yet, but on my mt4 console I have data for 1/1/2007, this has tripped my ea, now the feed is frozen and I can't close the orders
Customer Service Rep 2: The servers won't be open till 2AM EST.
you: So why do I have data? and what can I do about the orders?
you: Others have the same problem
you: Is anybody there?
Customer Service Rep 2: There is some data feed on the servers but we cannot place orders till 2AM EST.
you: Well my EA managed to, can I get them closed?
Customer Service Rep 2: Sorry we are unable to access the servers for trading or modify trades till 2AM EST.
you: Well how did I manage to place orders then? I know this is not your fault, but as you can imagine this leaves me in a somewhat compromised position
Customer Service Rep 2: A very small trade may have been able to be placed.
you: So why can't we close these trades...
you: if we can open we can close
Customer Service Rep 2: Can you close it on your computer.
you: Nope, say 'off quote'
Customer Service Rep 2: We get the same message, and are not able to access the servers via our computers or the phones.
you: wait...just came on line now, got stopped out...
you: Ok, it didn't gap my stops, but that is hardly an optimal situation, why did it happen?
Customer Service Rep 2: I'm really not sure.
you: hmmm...is there anybody I can talk to about it?
Customer Service Rep 2: Nope sorry, just us here tonight. It's just 11:35 PM here.
you: Oh well, fantastic, thanks for your help

Beautiful, is there a MT4 broker who does not suck?
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #3
  • Jan 2, 2007 2:05am Jan 2, 2007 2:05am
velocity4x.com
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #4
  • Jan 2, 2007 2:19am Jan 2, 2007 2:19am
Quoting Moe
velocity4x.com
Why would you recommend them?
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #5
  • Jan 2, 2007 2:33am Jan 2, 2007 2:33am
Quoting Craig
Why would you recommend them?
i don't recommend no broker, heard thru the grapevine these guys or pretty good.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #6
  • Jan 2, 2007 2:59am Jan 2, 2007 2:59am
I guess I was looking for more concreate reasons, but thanks for the tip.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #7
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:04am Jan 2, 2007 3:04am
Quoting Craig
I guess I was looking for more concreate reasons, but thanks for the tip.
you have to due your own dd, not just word of mouth, what some traders needs or in a broker might not be yours, i know a lot of traders who swears by fxcm and stands by them 100%, yeah thats what i say lol, but anyway hope you find what your looking for.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #8
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:09am Jan 2, 2007 3:09am
Quoting Craig
How about this one, today IBFX pumped though some data about 5 hours before they were supposed to open, this triggered my EA to trade, they then froze the feed so I could not close my trades...of course the market gapped into my stop losses by the time it opened. Here is the transcript with support...
[...]
you: hmmm...is there anybody I can talk to about it?
Customer Service Rep 2: Nope sorry, just us here tonight. It's just 11:35 PM here.
you: Oh well, fantastic, thanks for your help

Beautiful, is there a MT4 broker who does not suck?
If there is a problem with the platform ask for refund. If its their fault thats simple.
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
  • #9
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:24am Jan 2, 2007 3:24am
I've done very well with a broker today. They allowed me to place a couple of sell orders for USDCHF before they opened. The order I placed at 2:00 GMT was filled at a price 30 to 40 pips higher than current market prices at that time. Their charts were still frozen and they honored the price on the charts. They have not taken my trades away yet so I guess it works both ways.
  • #10
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:25am Jan 2, 2007 3:25am
hi....


As far as the original post here...about FXCM....well its not up to the company to manage your trades....you were late trying to take it off so blame the right person and that is you...clear cut and simple....Trying to lay blame for your trade mismanagement on the broker...well I will leave that to other opinions but I know mine..
  • #11
  • Jan 2, 2007 7:50am Jan 2, 2007 7:50am
Quoting Angler
hi....


As far as the original post here...about FXCM....well its not up to the company to manage your trades....you were late trying to take it off so blame the right person and that is you...clear cut and simple....Trying to lay blame for your trade mismanagement on the broker...well I will leave that to other opinions but I know mine..
It's true. However, so long as your orders are not executed, you should be able to change the orders. Oanda always allows that. Secondly after their dealing desk opened at 2AM, they didn't allow to change the orders or remove it until they execute the order 22 minutes later at 2:22AM. At that time the price on their platform was 1.3237/1.3240, but still they executed the trade sell EUR/USD at 1.3210 and stop at 1.3221 with a 11 pip loss!! Secondly if my order were a buy order would they execute exactly at that price (lower than the market price)? Is there anyone who benefitted from this?
  • #12
  • Jan 2, 2007 8:50am Jan 2, 2007 8:50am
Quoting Saurabh_g
Is there anyone who benefitted from this?
You made a huge rookie error and it only cost you 11 pips. I would suggest that you benefitted from this. Leaving an open order over a holiday lengthened 3 day weekend was not wise. Had this been the GBPUSD they could have easily and legitimately taken another 20+ pips off of you.
  • #13
  • Jan 2, 2007 9:33am Jan 2, 2007 9:33am
Why would anyone try to trade the open after a holiday... Talk about ripe for errors and low probability... I waited until things settled down and did very well.... Really, to me it seems like common sense.
  • #14
  • Jan 2, 2007 9:33am Jan 2, 2007 9:33am
Hi Saurabh_g,

You said you placed a sell order at 1.3210, is it a market order or limit order? If it's a limit order, why would it be executed? They opened at 2am EST and from that time on (until now, 9 hours later), EUR/USD has never been traded lower than 1.3230. If the price is not there (at 1.3210) as there existed a gap (by the time they opened), why would the order be executed in the first place and then got stopped out? I think it's not their fault if they did not allow you to modify your order when you were 1 minute late last Friday, but to have the order executed for a price not existed then I think it's not your fault. (to have stopped out at 1.3221 when the price was never t there is weird, and unless they claimed they executed your order before they opened (as trading has begun before they opened in other part of the world already), but according to what you described it's not the case.(so they executed your order after they opened).

Would anyone reading this post agree that the order shouldnt' be executed in the first place? By 2 am EUR/USD was already trading at around 1.3230- 1.3235, why could a position be possibly sold at 1.3210 and got stopped out at 1.3221. How could it be stopped out at a price not there? Would it be OK for a broker to do this and are all brokers doing this when such situation arises?
  • #15
  • Jan 2, 2007 1:39pm Jan 2, 2007 1:39pm
Quoting forex778
Hi Saurabh_g,

You said you placed a sell order at 1.3210, is it a market order or limit order? If it's a limit order, why would it be executed? They opened at 2am EST and from that time on (until now, 9 hours later), EUR/USD has never been traded lower than 1.3230. If the price is not there (at 1.3210) as there existed a gap (by the time they opened), why would the order be executed in the first place and then got stopped out? I think it's not their fault if they did not allow you to modify your order when you were 1 minute late last Friday, but to have the order executed for a price not existed then I think it's not your fault. (to have stopped out at 1.3221 when the price was never t there is weird, and unless they claimed they executed your order before they opened (as trading has begun before they opened in other part of the world already), but according to what you described it's not the case.(so they executed your order after they opened).

Would anyone reading this post agree that the order shouldnt' be executed in the first place? By 2 am EUR/USD was already trading at around 1.3230- 1.3235, why could a position be possibly sold at 1.3210 and got stopped out at 1.3221. How could it be stopped out at a price not there? Would it be OK for a broker to do this and are all brokers doing this when such situation arises?
Exactly that's what I want to tell everybody. The order was a limit order that I placed on Friday (Dec 29) morning. Then I was just late by one minute to remove my order by 4PM EST on Friday and I agree it was my fault not being able to remove it by 4PM. Then I waited until 2AM EST today when they opened the dealing desk. The price was already beyond 1.3230 and I could see my limit order still on the platform but unable to remove it or change it, as the platform didn't allow. I talked to their customer support in vain. Then I found them to have executed my limit order and stoploss exactly at 2:22 AM EST, i.e., 22 minutes after they opened the dealing desk. I looked at their tick chart and the price was 1.3237/1.3240 at that time. My question is how could they execute the trade at that time when the market price was nowhere near the limit order?
  • #16
  • Jan 2, 2007 2:24pm Jan 2, 2007 2:24pm
Quoting Saurabh_g
My question is how could they execute the trade at that time when the market price was nowhere near the limit order?
Hi Saurabh,

In my opinion, this is a good lesson for you. I think the market is never close. It just your broker that is not open. Remember, I'm talking not only the Forex market, but also the stock market and other markets. There are always buyers and sellers anytime. If you see your chart, there is a gap up / gap down and these gaps represents movement of the market prices when your broker is close.

Anyway, back to your questions. They could execute the order since the market price was there. Just imagine, if you put buy order, instead of sell order, at 1.3210, they would still execute your trade and when the market open at 1.3240, you have already made 30 pips (assume you didn't put any stop loss or limit order). This is just how the market works.
"Even the word impossible says that I M possible"
  • #17
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:07pm Jan 2, 2007 3:07pm
Quoting SkYliNe0511
Hi Saurabh,

In my opinion, this is a good lesson for you. I think the market is never close. It just your broker that is not open. Remember, I'm talking not only the Forex market, but also the stock market and other markets. There are always buyers and sellers anytime. If you see your chart, there is a gap up / gap down and these gaps represents movement of the market prices when your broker is close.

Anyway, back to your questions. They could execute the order since the market price was there. Just imagine, if you put buy order, instead of sell order, at 1.3210, they would still execute your trade and when the market open at 1.3240, you have already made 30 pips (assume you didn't put any stop loss or limit order). This is just how the market works.
Thanks for your reply. Indeed it was a good lesson for me with a small price. Transcript of my chat with their customer representative can be beneficial to everybody
:FXCM£1: Welcome to FXCM's Live Chat Feature. So that we may better serve you, feel free to provide me with your name and email address. How may I help you?
: Hi my concern is regarding one trade with the ticket no. ******. The trade was executed at 2:22AM EST at a price which never existed at that time (I can see the tick chart).
FXCM£1: ok, I can check on this with you
FXCM£1: what currency pair were you trading, and what price did it execute at?
: OK. Its EUR/USD sell at 1.3210 and stop at 1.3221 and both executed at 2:22 AM EST
FXCM£1: What is your account number and for verification your name and email?
:**********,************,*********
FXCM£1: ok, and did you have this order waiting over the weekend while the dealing desk was closed?
: Yes. Actually I tried to remove the order on Friday , but I was late by a few seconds at 4PM and I was not allowed to do so. Then I waited until 2AM this morning to remove my order. However, the platform didn't allow me until 2:22AM when it was executed and stopped out simultaneously.
FXCM£1: When the dealing desk arrives after the weekend period they go through the prices that were reached over the weekend,
FXCM£1: any stops, limits, and entry orders that should have been hit will be executed
FXCM£1: during this time when they are sweeping until the market
FXCM£1: you will be unable to place or modify any trades until trading actually begins
: I can understand that. If the order was executed before 2AM, I have nothing to say against. But to execute the trade 22 minutes after opening the dealing desk at a price that didn't exist at that time is amusing!
FXCM£1: I'm not sure what you mean by it not existing. The dealing desk opened at the price 1.3201,
FXCM£1: then sweeped the market for the prices reached, in which case the current market price
FXCM£1: was then near 1.3242
: During volatile market you don't execute a market order even if the price moves by 1 pip. You don't fill up the limit order if the price gapped and still in this case you managed to stop me out at a time at a price that didn't exist at 2:22AM, isn't it ridiculous?
FXCM£1: Your order was an entry order correct?
: limit order
FXCM£1: your order was an entry order and not a market order
FXCM£1: and the order filled at the price you specified
FXCM£1: have you viewed a chart to see the market movement from the dealing desk close on friday
FXCM£1: until the dealing desk open today
FXCM£1: ?
: But you don't understand my point. At 2:22 AM the price was never close to 1.3210 and and 1.3221 and still you executed it, isn't it totally unscrupulous?
FXCM£1: If your entry price was reached in the market while the dealing desk was closed, then upon the sweep of the market upon opening, if your entry order should have been executed then it will execute. I can see that at 2:22 the market was near 1.3235
FXCM£1: well beyond your entry order price, so the order was going to get executed since the market clearly traded through it
FXCM£1: if you do not want an order to execute, then I would advise setting aside enough time to delete it before the dealing desk closes on Friday,
FXCM£1: however the market clearly went through your entry price upon the dealing desk open regardless of what time the trade was executed
: I looked at the chart that comes with your platform and looked at it 10 minutes before or after and the price was never 1.3210.And you should execute the order when the price sweeped it not after 25 minutes or not even after 5 minutes. And if you still do that you must honor all entry orders even when the price gaps during volatile market. Do you do that?
FXCM£1: at 2:22 what price do you see the market at?
FXCM£1: according to the chart
: 1.3237/1.3240
FXCM£1: ok, and what was the close price from Friday / open price this morning when the dealing desk opened?
: close price was 1.3201 and 4 minutes before you opened the dealing desk the price on your platform spiked to 1.3231 or little bit more than that
FXCM£1: ok, so if the market goes from 1.320 to 1.3231 you have an order in between there waiting to be executed, that order doesn't disappear
: That's true. But the order should be executed exactly when the price pass through that not 25 minutes later. In the age of supercomputers don't tell me that computer took 25 minutes to execute the trade!
FXCM£1: Ok, I understand that this is more an issue of the time at which it was executed, rather than if it should have been executed at all. When the dealing desk open the system will go through all of the orders that were waiting over the wekend to see if they should have been executed or not. Now if the order did not execute in a timely fashion, then our production can look into this to see why it did not execute before then
: If you can't execute the order at the time when the price was hit, you shouldn't execute it at all! And I have been at the receiving ends on both cases. Here I lost because the order was executed and one month earlier I lost becuse my limit order and take profit was not executed as the price gapped through both of them (exactly the opposite of the present case)!
FXCM£1: Did you contact us previously about the limit not executing?
: Yes I talked and the answer was when the price gapped we can't honor etc.
FXCM£1: if the price were to gap through a limit, for example if you had an open trade and your limit was reached when the market gapped through it then it would be filled
: Not an open trade but limit order with take profit and the market went right through it.
FXCM£1: did your entry order execute?
FXCM£1: because an entry order would be filled at the next best price if the market were to gap through it
: No, since both of the order and take profit exceeded nothing was executed as it gapped.
: In the present case if you executed the trade at 1.3237 when the price gapped in the opening I wouldn't mind. But the price gapped through both my limit order and stoploss and you didn't fail to execute!!
FXCM£1: that is correct, because your entry order price was reached, if you have an order in and the price is reached then it will execute
FXCM£1: if you do not want that order to execute then I would advise cancelling it before the dealing desk closes
: I know there is no point talking to you, but now I understand why in almost in all forex forums people tells FXCM is the worst and ask all beginners to stay away from it.
FXCM£1: I beg your pardon sir, but everything was executed exactly as you requested,
FXCM£1: I do not see anything that is wrong with the execution, other than you are saying it should have occurred more quickly.
FXCM£1: Being executed at the price you request is exactly what traders desire,
FXCM£1: I think that anyone viewing this would agree,
FXCM£1: and that is exactly what occurred for your entry order.
: The trader desires right price at the right time . Any price that I want now may be too bad 20 minutes later. So the traders want prompt execution than anything else. and I think you will agree that
FXCM£1: Yes I would agree. But you never would have had the opportunity to close this trade had the trade executed before then.
FXCM£1: The market went virtually from 1.3201 to 1.3242 in the sweep of hte market.
FXCM£1: If you would have had an opportunity to close the trade, then this may have been different,
FXCM£1: but this trade was set to open and get stopped out without any ability to close it before then
: Look The market actually didn't gap ( you will agree). All over the world the trading started earlier. I have live accounts with other brokers as well. It's when your dealing desk opened, price already reached there and it didn't reach there in one second, it took a few hours.
FXCM£1: That is correct, it didn't reach there within 1 second, but when the dealing desk opened the market was at 1.3242
FXCM£1: the market could have moved during the entire time the dealing desk was closed, but you can't place trades while the dealing desk is closed
: So you must deal this as a gap in the market and start trading from there and you should not try prey on the customers that was victimized due to inability in your dealing desk and inefficiency thereoff.
FXCM£1: However, the dealing desk is not going to move the market one pip at a time asking you if you want to get in or out at each one, they'll allow you to start trading once the current market price is reached
FXCM£1: because that is where buyers and sellers are located
FXCM£1: However, we do honor orders over the weekend during normal conditions which is why your entry order was executed at the price you specified,
FXCM£1: and your stop was also executed at the price you specified.
: Could you give me a single instance today where customers profitted from it?
FXCM£1: Due to our privacy policy, we cannot discuss other traders trading with you. But another traders trades wouldn't have any relavance on your position. The execution on your position was flawless.
FXCM£1: were you not executed at the prices you requested?
: But I was not executed at the right time, but at some fictitious time according to your dealing desk. You are not acknowledging that
FXCM£1: I understand that you are contending that your order should have been executed earlier, in which case I will check with our production as to why this was not executed more quickly. However, the execution on teh trade was still correct. Your order would not have simply disappeared.
: I think I am wasting time talking to you over some issue that you will deliberately try to confuse others. It will be better for me to warn fellow traders about your dangerous inefficiency, I think you will agree.
FXCM£1: I do not think other traders would understand why you are not happy with being filled at the price you request.
: You are still trying to forget the time of execution not the price.
FXCM£1: If there was ever an event where a trade was not executed properly, then our audit committee would be happy to review it
: Anyway thanks, bye.
FXCM£1: and make any resolution if necessary. However, regardless of the time of execution, your order was still executed at the price you requested as it should have been.
FXCM£1: You're welcome and take care.
http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hcp...o/chatinfo.gifChat session has ended.
  • #18
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:25pm Jan 2, 2007 3:25pm
No matter what... FXCMi is full of many many problems which especially for many of us inexperienced traders, prove to take our money away from us... this is almost a 100% feeling from those who tried FXCM.

Not that you are inexperienced... but I was
  • #19
  • Jan 2, 2007 3:38pm Jan 2, 2007 3:38pm
They followed their own rules at FXCM, and that is just the way it is... but if you already know about Oanda... what the heck are you doing at FXCM ??

Take your money and run !!! Run FAST !!!
  • #20
  • Edited 6:29pm Jan 2, 2007 3:43pm | Edited 6:29pm
Hello Saurabh_g,

Sorry about my ignorance - Basically I don't understand what are you trying to say. Are you saying that they shouldn't stop you out at 1.3221? They should stop you out at 1.3231~~and cost you 10 more pips??

Or you want to say that they should actually do a market order rather than your "limit" order with their dealing desk. Then you should sell at 1.3231 then buy straight back at 1.3234 and loss your 3 PIPs spread??

I know you are "frustrated" but your "11PIPS" stoploss (in actually fact 8PIPs after counting the spread) strategy should be "revised". Otherwise you will complain about brokers all the time till your money are all gone. A simple gap and take out your position easily and it happens all the time during market reopen. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN TRADES. I hope you actually learn something from this experience rather than just blame on something else.

I hope you will find some ways to improve your trading.
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