The System (Irony included) | Page 23 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Point pivot trend line and fibo system (Semafor included) 14 replies

Indicator fix...code included.. WHATS WRONG?!? 4 replies

An interesting read - Daily and 60 Min Strategy - Charts included 3 replies

Attachments: The System (Irony included)
Exit Attachments

The System (Irony included)

  • #441
  • Nov 15, 2007 6:36am Nov 15, 2007 6:36am
Hee Feb2865,

Thanks for your answer in post nr. 297.
Did you take trades in indexes also after 16th august and if so when did you take them?

Can you post some charts with exits and entries (even if they are taken on gold or an index). It would help a lot for me (and maybe for others here) to get a good understanding of taking the right trades at the right time.

You say that you sometimes go to 4 H chart to get a discount, but after the previous high is taken on the daily there is an entry, right. So you're taking a risk when you go down to the 4H to see if you can get a better entry because price can move away from you?

Hope you have time to answer since this becoming a popular thread.
  • #442
  • Nov 15, 2007 6:55am Nov 15, 2007 6:55am
Quoting greenpips
Hee Feb2865,

Thanks for your answer in post nr. 297.
Did you take trades in indexes also after 16th august and if so when did you take them?

Can you post some charts with exits and entries (even if they are taken on gold or an index). It would help a lot for me (and maybe for others here) to get a good understanding of taking the right trades at the right time.

You say that you sometimes go to 4 H chart to get a discount, but after the previous high is taken on the daily there is an entry, right. So you're taking a risk when you go down to the 4H to see if you can get a better entry because price can move away from you?


Hope you have time to answer since this becoming a popular thread.
Hey Greenpips

I trade all that I see "green" if time permits of course.

A discount yes I always try But all depends on how fast the market is moving. You don't have to get a discount if you don't want to.

If you look closely on real time , many times when the high/low of the day is taken, there's plenty of time to get the discount in price. I mean, you have 4 hours. Also the high/low of the day , more often than not you're going to notice a "fastmarket" once the market reach theses levels. There's a retrace like a small pullback and then a continuation. Culd be a small correction I don't know. You can't see that on hindsight.

Many sharks are positioned in these levels to trigger stops. Not only at pivot points or S/R lines as some believe. Hence the fast move. I wait for the smoke to clear and try to get the price at discount.

But don't make this a hard and fast rule. getting on the bus should be your priority.

Peace
Peace
  • #443
  • Nov 15, 2007 7:37am Nov 15, 2007 7:37am
Shreem,

Welcome to the thread! We are happy to have you here. Feb is an extremely knowledgable trader and offers much of that to folks who have found a safe haven for honesty within this thread.

I have added my thoughts on blue to some of the things you mentioned.

Quoting shreem
Hello FEB2865 and all, just wanted to congratulate your for starting this great thread. Trading naked charts is really the way to go I think. I do really like your style of teaching. This is straight to the point with a very sincere desire to help.

Your posts are so helpful and really happy to have found this thread.

It is true that trading naked charts is not easy in the beginning and can take a long time to master, but I do agree that the final result will be very rewarding for the patient and disciplined trader.

Key points here are patience and discipline! So many new traders (I am not a big fan of the term newbie) lack the ability to stick to their tradeing plan which is to be developed from their trading methodology which requires patience to lay in waiting for the setup that matches their trading plan.

If you have not done so I highly suggest you begin by writing your trading plan down and keeping it by your monitor where you trade. In fact I would go further to say read it a couple times a day to remind yourself of what it is you are to be focused on.

I am trading forex since 2 years and still not consistently profitable and already have blown 2 accounts (fortunately mini-accounts) when learning and trading with indicators, it doesn't really helped me that much after all. Only the thread of Phillip of 4H MACD has really help me in some extent to see the motion of the market and recognize S/R. In fact, it is the thread of Phillip who has push me to look for this kind of thread about naked chart trading.

Another huge pitfal of new traders is being under-funded. I am not refering to you directly but I believe you may fall into this bucket in some form When I say under-funded I don't mean that you can't make good tading decisions with a $500.00 acount. It's just that new traders get the idea that after they make a good tade or 2 using proper leverage and money management they gain a little confidence and upon their next trade find themselves in a bad trade, where they entered not obeying their MM laws to prevent from being over exposed to the market.

This trade will move against them and they sit and watch and hope and say to themselves "it will come back my way it has too, or I will get out if it comes back to break even, or I will close this trade if it comes back X price level for sure" Then the next thing you know they are having a margin call and wiped out 75% of their account.

Again while this may not pertain directly to you I am just using what you posted as an example for others who come after you.

I have read Phillip's thread and he has put together some excellent information. In fact it is vey similar to Woddie's CCI methods. While these traders have trained themselves to undersnd these indicators we mst be aware of to very important facts.

1. Indicators are an indication of what price has done in the past and not an indication of where price is going.

2. By using the strictest of discipline for both MM and formations, these traders are able to trade formations created by the indicators and are able to trade profitably.

I don't care what methodology you use naked charts, moving averages, keltner channels, bolliner bands, or if you only trade one formation made by price itself you can be profitable by being disciplined and sticking to the hard fast rules you have established for your trading methodology and MM.

You have reached the next step in your trading career. Which in my opinion should be the first step in anyone's trading career. Learn how to trade price then and only then should you look to maybe add one indicator as a tool for your own trading toolbox.

So I am happy to se that you have learned some great lessons in the past with the help of some other knowledgable traders.

But this thread is where it all begins my friend.

Will definitely follow this thread with great interest.

Thank again to share your great knowledge with us FEB2865.

Sincerely

Shreem

Ok you can clearly see I have had my first cup of coffee already (signaling to the server for a second cup)

Good Morning Feb's Thread!!!

Trader_V
Nothing is impossible, with a willing mind!
  • #444
  • Nov 15, 2007 7:41am Nov 15, 2007 7:41am
You folks have got to stop posting in the middle of the night...lol

Just kidding I am so glad you folks are sticking with this and helping out the new folks who are coming in and assisting them with understanding.

Folks like Leigh, Mr Trend, Clock, Green David, Antra, Ownshook and those others whose names I did not mention.

Sometimes hearing the same ideas but presented differently by someone else or asking some great questions really assists othes with gaining a better undestanding.

I think this is where Feb and I create a bit of synergy in this thread.

I need more coffee where's that darn server...lol
Nothing is impossible, with a willing mind!
  • #445
  • Edited 8:29am Nov 15, 2007 8:14am | Edited 8:29am
Morning Trader V (actually its midnight for me in Australia)



I've been greatly anticipating you analysis on the trade you took on the US/JPY. When you have time I was hoping you could break it down for us.

I noticed the level of support price hit in the retracement, then it reversed and continued in the direction of the major trend. Did you place your stop just above the level of support? How do you determine your profit target(s)? Do you look for a reversal pattern or is it predetermined?

Thanks in advance for your reply

Great words of wisdom all around this thread thanks again to all for sharing. .
  • #446
  • Nov 15, 2007 8:35am Nov 15, 2007 8:35am
Dear Big Brother Feb and Second Big Brother Trader_V:

Good morning to both of you.

Trader_V has wrote a very nice comment to Shreem in post #443. I read all most the same opinions in the the same month last year. Well, now I understand. If I understood one year ago. I won't lose so much. Trading several hundred $, and use leverage more than 100 is gambling to me.

No any comments regarding my post #440?

It seems that US Dollars getting strength. Look at USD/CAD, a 7% increase from 0.91! and GBP, AUD, NZD. It seems that all non-USD(except JPY), have tops all ready.

So, in my chart posted in #440, if E/U closes below 1.4600 lower than the close of yesterday. Wouldn't E/U seem bearish? My short position of E/U which has 10 green pips is telling me, I may be right, at least temporary?

Cheers.
  • #447
  • Nov 15, 2007 9:36am Nov 15, 2007 9:36am
Guys Please ...time out ok????

Listen, I have been reading some of your recent post.

My humble suggestion is not to over-complicate things. Make trading an simple task (I didn't say easy ok??)

You know what to do. I mean, you made your analysis, Markets conditions are favorable, you see the pattern either you play the breakout or wait for the confirmation, you have to press that little sign on your screen that says "execute" order" trade" I don't know. Your job is to get in...and of course make sure your ass is covered.

I am trying to expand your vision on the markets.

I am going to list the things that I do .I sincerely hope I don't miss anything I haven't got my morning coffee yet and my girlfriend is bugging me big time( yes another dose of car shopping today)

1) I check the indices - I put a lot of attention on DJIA why?? because I copycat the big dogs - all of them check the DJIA to look for intermarket relationship. When you get the hang of it. makes a lot of sense.I also check Crude oil/gold to see if they are putting some weight on the indices but that's secondary.

Like for instance, yesterday 11/14/2007 we had a hard sell into close. But I notice that crude oil rebounded. That could lead to a follow up on the indices.

The idea is to look for clues. I mean, following a pattern is important of course, But I don't want to trade blindly. I want to know what's going on. I don't want to get caught up with my pants down!!!!!

A side not about the Dow Jones - I think is the most unrealistic representation of the USA economy, I mean...common' how come you're gonna put intel and ibm on the same index having only 30 stocks to watch???that's stupid.

But I have to follow the rules and the big dogs are watching it.

2) Check what reports are in for tomorrow -
I am not "jumpy " for news, reports etc. I don't trade them. I don't have to

But if happens that you got everything line up for a trade, and the next day you have, for instance, Uncle Ben speaking (and I bet it will screw the markets I mean that's his specialty don't you think?) or the interest rate, etc, well you need to make sure where you put your stops.

Just be aware of the extra-volatility so you don't get stopped out so easy.

3) Check the patterns - what do you see??. Is there a fractal??

4) if there's a V formation, once my third candle has broken the higher high/lower low, then I zoom in to 4hr charts. I am looking for speed/retrace etc. How fast is retracing??? Do I have time to get a good price??

5) If I an looking for a discount price, I set an alarm (starring at the charts for too long gives me headache , seriously) but I also set an alarm at the point where the 3rd candle broke the pattern. Sometimes you can't get the discount and the market is coming back to that point. I tell you, I won't miss the buss.

6) I don't wait for the third candle to close... I mean, I have to get in somehow. Maybe I didn't explain myself clear so I apologize.

Once the high/low is broken I do my play

Once I have all ducks aligned, I pull the trigger, set my stops, (I also put an alarm where the stop is) I close my charts and I go do something else ( no I don't like golf)

I hope I haven't miss anything. If I do I am under pressure here (oh women!!!)

see ya guys later

Peace
Peace
  • #448
  • Nov 15, 2007 10:18am Nov 15, 2007 10:18am
Quoting feb2865

3) Check the patterns - what do you see??. Is there a fractal??

4) if there's a V formation, once my third candle has broken the higher high/lower low, then I zoom in to 4hr charts. I am looking for speed/retrace etc. How fast is retracing??? Do I have time to get a good price??

5) If I an looking for a discount price, I set an alarm (starring at the charts for too long gives me headache , seriously) but I also set an alarm at the point where the 3rd candle broke the pattern. Sometimes you can't get the discount and the market is coming back to that point. I tell you, I won't miss the buss.

6) I don't wait for the third candle to close... I mean, I have to get in somehow. Maybe I didn't explain myself clear so I apologize.

Once the high/low is broken I do my play

Once I have all ducks aligned, I pull the trigger, set my stops, (I also put an alarm where the stop is) I close my charts and I go do something else ( no I don't like golf)

I hope I haven't miss anything. If I do I am under pressure here (oh women!!!)

see ya guys later

Peace
That makes for a nice handwritten trade plan to keep by my computer. Thank you for all the clarifications.
  • #449
  • Nov 15, 2007 11:01am Nov 15, 2007 11:01am
Quoting Trader_V
Shreem,

Welcome to the thread! We are happy to have you here. Feb is an extremely knowledgable trader and offers much of that to folks who have found a safe haven for honesty within this thread.

I have added my thoughts on blue to some of the things you mentioned.




Ok you can clearly see I have had my first cup of coffee already (signaling to the server for a second cup)

Good Morning Feb's Thread!!!

Trader_V


Hello Trader V, thank you very much for your detailed reply. It is extremely helpful to me and you are correct about all you said, it does apply to me.

I have walk down those paths and 1 account blown was due to the reason you mentionned. No proper MM followed.

However, I do have learned from my mistakes and i am trying very hard to stick to my plan and follow the rule. Biggest problem is maybe I do not really have a clearly enough defined plan.

I do think only the fools dont want to learn from their mistakes. I am certainely not one of them. There is no place in the forex market for "EGO" and so I do accept totally for all my mistakes and i am the one responsible for it.

Your points are very well taken and I do really thank you to share these with me.

I really feel that only by mastering true price action itself will give me an edge and nothing else.

So, will do my homework and will try to be the most constructive particpant on this thread.

Sincerely

Shreem
  • #450
  • Nov 15, 2007 11:38am Nov 15, 2007 11:38am
Quoting feb2865
Guys Please ...time out ok????

Listen, I have been reading some of your recent post.

My humble suggestion is not to over-complicate things. Make trading an simple task (I didn't say easy ok??)

You know what to do. I mean, you made your analysis, Markets conditions are favorable, you see the pattern either you play the breakout or wait for the confirmation, you have to press that little sign on your screen that says "execute" order" trade" I don't know. Your job is to get in...and of course make sure your ass is covered.

I am trying to expand your vision on the markets.

I am going to list the things that I do .I sincerely hope I don't miss anything I haven't got my morning coffee yet and my girlfriend is bugging me big time( yes another dose of car shopping today)

1) I check the indices - I put a lot of attention on DJIA why?? because I copycat the big dogs - all of them check the DJIA to look for intermarket relationship. When you get the hang of it. makes a lot of sense.I also check Crude oil/gold to see if they are putting some weight on the indices but that's secondary.

Like for instance, yesterday 11/14/2007 we had a hard sell into close. But I notice that crude oil rebounded. That could lead to a follow up on the indices.

The idea is to look for clues. I mean, following a pattern is important of course, But I don't want to trade blindly. I want to know what's going on. I don't want to get caught up with my pants down!!!!!

A side not about the Dow Jones - I think is the most unrealistic representation of the USA economy, I mean...common' how come you're gonna put intel and ibm on the same index having only 30 stocks to watch???that's stupid.

But I have to follow the rules and the big dogs are watching it.

2) Check what reports are in for tomorrow -
I am not "jumpy " for news, reports etc. I don't trade them. I don't have to

But if happens that you got everything line up for a trade, and the next day you have, for instance, Uncle Ben speaking (and I bet it will screw the markets I mean that's his specialty don't you think?) or the interest rate, etc, well you need to make sure where you put your stops.

Just be aware of the extra-volatility so you don't get stopped out so easy.

3) Check the patterns - what do you see??. Is there a fractal??

4) if there's a V formation, once my third candle has broken the higher high/lower low, then I zoom in to 4hr charts. I am looking for speed/retrace etc. How fast is retracing??? Do I have time to get a good price??

5) If I an looking for a discount price, I set an alarm (starring at the charts for too long gives me headache , seriously) but I also set an alarm at the point where the 3rd candle broke the pattern. Sometimes you can't get the discount and the market is coming back to that point. I tell you, I won't miss the buss.

6) I don't wait for the third candle to close... I mean, I have to get in somehow. Maybe I didn't explain myself clear so I apologize.

Once the high/low is broken I do my play

Once I have all ducks aligned, I pull the trigger, set my stops, (I also put an alarm where the stop is) I close my charts and I go do something else ( no I don't like golf)

I hope I haven't miss anything. If I do I am under pressure here (oh women!!!)

see ya guys later

Peace
Hi Feb,

if there's a V formation, once my third candle has broken the higher high/lower low, then I zoom in to 4hr charts. I am looking for speed/retrace etc. How fast is retracing??? Do I have time to get a good price??


this is the point I am not clear since the beginning. If it is not too much of a hassle could you please explain. What do we mean by third candle breaking higher or lower? with respect to what.

Thanks much

TradeStar
Haste not to Enter AND Haste not to Exit !-TradeStar
  • #451
  • Edited 12:36pm Nov 15, 2007 12:18pm | Edited 12:36pm
Quoting Green_David
So, in my chart posted in #440, if E/U closes below 1.4600 lower than the close of yesterday. Wouldn't E/U seem bearish? My short position of E/U which has 10 green pips is telling me, I may be right, at least temporary?
In my opinion, EUR/USD is still looking like it can go either way (it might even be developing into a consolidation, who knows) ... my 4hr chart has developed a higher low and a lower high on the Fractals. The higher low's Fractal however, can still change/redraw.

It's still too early to tell or make any decisions one way or the other for me.

For myself, closing at 1.4600 still wouldn't tell me anything (but then again, I don't know how to count cards yet ), because the higher low and lower high is still going to be prevalent on the 4hr. I wouldn't yet consider it going largely bearish until the break of around 1.4520 (the low Fractal on the Daily). Then a double-top would be confirmed, no?

Anyway, that's just my observation when reading my chart.

Here's what my 4hr chart looks like:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD8.png Size: 230 KB
  • #452
  • Nov 15, 2007 12:35pm Nov 15, 2007 12:35pm
Quoting leighsww
In my opinion, EUR/USD is still looking like it can go either way (it might even be developing into a consolidation, who knows) ... my 4hr chart has developed a higher low and a lower high on the Fractals. The higher low's Fractal however, can still change/redraw.

It's still too early to tell or make any decisions one way or the other for me.

For myself, closing at 1.4600 still wouldn't tell me anything (but then again, I don't know how to count cards yet ), because the higher low and lower high is still going to be prevalent on the 4hr. I wouldn't yet consider it going largely bearish until the break of around 1.4520 (the low Fractal on the Daily). Then a double-top would be confirmed, no?

Anyway, that's just my observation when reading my chart.

Here's what my 4hr chart looks like:
I believe if there is a retracement to 1.4520 area...that would form a double bottom. Not sure where you are seeing a possible double top

I agree that the e/u chart is not saying too much. Could be sideways movement coming up (which would implement Febs consolidation method) but would like to see some bull shadows coming into the play.

Anyhow.....lots of "coulds"...just waiting to see what "is" so there is some clarity. Right now is a coin flip.

TradeStar....what I believe Feb means..in response to your question is one we see the bottom of a correction.....we want to see the next bar (#2) clear the high of correction candle...and the candle after that (#3)..when it clear the high of #2 we start looking for entry. Don't quote me however that is how i understand it to be.
  • #453
  • Nov 15, 2007 12:48pm Nov 15, 2007 12:48pm
Quoting ownshook
I believe if there is a retracement to 1.4520 area...that would form a double bottom. Not sure where you are seeing a possible double top
LOL, yeah before I read your post, I was just looking up the definition of a double-top to make sure I got the correct meaning of it.

Originally, I thought it was any time the price bumped back up/down to around the area of a preceding candle's high/low, but I guess, from the definition, it has to hit it spot on, eh?

I was seeing the double-top at the higher Fractals on the Daily (see chart)

Before I had seen/read your post, I had deleted that sentence (after looking up the definition, haha), but then I saw you had posted, so I put it back, lol. You caught me a little too quick there
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD9.png Size: 217 KB
  • #454
  • Nov 15, 2007 12:54pm Nov 15, 2007 12:54pm
Quoting leighsww
In my opinion, EUR/USD is still looking like it can go either way (it might even be developing into a consolidation, who knows) ... my 4hr chart has developed a higher low and a lower high on the Fractals. The higher low's Fractal however, can still change/redraw.

It's still too early to tell or make any decisions one way or the other for me.

For myself, closing at 1.4600 still wouldn't tell me anything (but then again, I don't know how to count cards yet ), because the higher low and lower high is still going to be prevalent on the 4hr. I wouldn't yet consider it going largely bearish until the break of around 1.4520 (the low Fractal on the Daily). Then a double-top would be confirmed, no?

Anyway, that's just my observation when reading my chart.

Here's what my 4hr chart looks like:
My daily chart begins at 5:00am(GMT+8). I looked into 4H chart. It really means nothing for that day. But 1.4600 is today's lowest and support(you can see from 1h chart more clearly), if price breaks down 1.4600, maybe the price will look for a support at a lower price.

Peace.
  • #455
  • Nov 15, 2007 2:27pm Nov 15, 2007 2:27pm
Quoting feb
I do counter-trend moves LOL

But that's a big story and I promise I'll explain one day as it requires another setup etc.
Say feb, can today be that "one day" already?

I'm just really curious how you do this one, since you mention it requires another setup.

Since I'm assuming it's still based on PA, it still goes in grain with this thread, right?
  • #456
  • Nov 15, 2007 3:12pm Nov 15, 2007 3:12pm
Quoting leighsww
Say feb, can today be that "one day" already?

I'm just really curious how you do this one, since you mention it requires another setup.

Since I'm assuming it's still based on PA, it still goes in grain with this thread, right?
Yeah this is one of those days anyway, I have no setup ,.

oh you're talking about a counter trend move.??

yes is PA but I should save it for another thread I think. It's a whole other setup. I don't want to get everyone confused here.

don't worry sister, the bus will come sooner or later

Meanwhile, let's play a hand, so we can kill some time. LOL

Peace
Peace
  • #457
  • Nov 15, 2007 3:24pm Nov 15, 2007 3:24pm
LOL, okay

And I wasn't saying I was going to do it :, it would have to, again, make sense for me, lol.

But I'm also not saying that I wouldn't do it :, because if we're talkin' "opportunity" (especially in a really long retracement) then there's times you can take advantage of it as long as you play it wisely and safely

But I understand and totally agree that this thread wouldn't be appropriate.
  • #458
  • Nov 15, 2007 3:42pm Nov 15, 2007 3:42pm
Quoting leighsww
You caught me a little too quick there
hehe...bad timing. We do agree however that there is nothing setup on the E/U chart in regards to Febs method or the 123 setup.

I gotta tell ya...it is very difficult sitting here and not digging around trying to find a trade where one may not exist.

I will also add that, as Feb mentioned, waiting for the third candle to take out a high at anytime during the trading day is that little extra boost that there is some momentum in the trend direction....which we all love when attempting to profit from trend following.

...jumping the gun yesterday has resulted in a -40 pip outcome.
  • #459
  • Nov 15, 2007 4:08pm Nov 15, 2007 4:08pm
Oh I put a trade today !!!!!!
Peace
  • #460
  • Nov 15, 2007 4:18pm Nov 15, 2007 4:18pm
Seeing some serious 'patience' here. ( not the card game either) tho it might help?
I agree Feb that when or if you start to explain how you play counter trends then another thread would be less confusing for members.
1 trader viewing now