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VantagePoint discussion thread

  • #801
  • Dec 1, 2006 11:11pm Dec 1, 2006 11:11pm
Pedrop obviously U also have only read the last couple of post of the thread instead like all the profitable traders that trade with VP read from Post #1 to the last. I'm going to use a 4 letter word now so don't get offended W O R K. Now go do it. WE have.


Fellow Pip Hunter

Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #802
  • Edited 11:32pm Dec 1, 2006 11:22pm | Edited 11:32pm
Quoting pedrop
Frank,

I'm very interested in your findings....

I actually tried to post this question to Market Technologies and could never show me comparison charts that would divert from 3EMA/10SMA

Please show me at least one example....

I would surely appreciate it.... I am still having difficulty in using it to trade successfully.... I tend to pick the false breakouts....

Does anyone know a way to distinguish when a 10 Day Predicted Crossover is merely a fluke? If anyone can truly answer this question I think that we would all profit a LOT from Vantagepoint....

Please anyone with experience send your comments because I have tried unsuccessfully to use the software and need any pointers to guide me through....

Thanks,

PEDRO
VP is not only the crossover. I do not even look at the MAs really in my trading.
I have posted pointers to how i use VP. if you look it's all in here. As to does it work - there is already more than enough evidence. Don't look at how it does not work look at how it works. Here is just one example for you.
Attached Image
  • #803
  • Edited 4:24am Dec 2, 2006 4:01am | Edited 4:24am
Quoting williamk
Frank, I find it interesting that U find it your mission to prove that the MAs on VP are the same as the MAs that U mentioned instead of trying to find a way to make $$$ from it. There are traders that I know in fact are making LARGE amounts of pips with VP and NOT by using the VP MAs, myself included. So go and reread all the posts that hold want I think are the keys to VP. I also noticed and have spoken to the traders that are making pips and have done all the work to devlop a system that works for each persons own trading personality and they refuse to answer your post that take U and Us NOWHERE so post something with some real insight.
Sorry for being so foward(not)

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the criticism. My style of writing may be misleading. I do not have a "mission" here at this board, except maybe to report my success in making VP a useful tool, instead of how it first appeared to me when i bought it - a dinosaur. I don't need to defend that point, since so many on the board also comment on the archaic nature of the s/w. If I cannot make it work, then of course, I am not going to stay here denigrating the product. Sour grapes is beneficial to no-one and there is enough of this around. This thread has a track record of providing helpful insight on VP. I myself am working through the review of the posts on the site with a highlighter to extract the methods used by various people to make VP work, with a view to testing them out.
So far from being negative towards VP, my attitude is one of openness, and a willingness to discover what you, and your colleagues have found out - a way to harness the data provided by VP on a daily basis in order to make it pay. And yes, I am going over with a fine-tooth comb your posts and all other posts, so your posted ideas will not be overlooked.
Bill, you may be making large amounts of pips by NOT using the MAs, but look at the video on the VP site. What do they advertise to use to make decisions on position trading? The MAs. So are they wrong in advertising their own product in that way? Or is it that they do not know their own product? Should they delete the reference to the use of MAs in their promotional video? Have a look again at the video at http://www.tradertech.com/video.asp
In testing the validity of a company's claims, we should examine their claim at face value. That is what I have done as a newbie. Is that incorrect?
How should I regard their explanation when I get to that part of the video if I am a prospective customer? Have you contacted Tradertech to inform them that their advertising of using the MAs is incorrect, and should be eliminated from their promotion? You say, "There are traders that I know in fact are making LARGE amounts of pips with VP and NOT by using the VP MAs, myself included." What the company is saying and what you are saying are two entirely different things. But this discussion has been hashed out to death earlier so I am not going to dig it up again.
Now I know that many use this for swing trading, and that successfully. But Traderteck do not focus on this method in their infomedia. On the video, they only refer to the PH and the PL as a gauge to calculate how far from them to measure out to place stops.
And in addition, I am not in the position to do this in my part of the world, and my work commitments when the data becomes available. I cannot download the data for at least 6-8 hours after it becomes available, and even if I automated the downloading, I would not be able to view it or act on it until I got home from work. So you see my predicament if I was to consider following the recommendation of others in this thread concerning how to use VP for swing trading as soon as the data becomes available. But that in no way means that I discount swing trading as a successful method. It is just that as an ongoing method, it is probably not the focus of my strategy.
The initial question in my mind is this, does the EXCESSIVE money I have paid for VP justify its investment, if I just use what they promote to use by position traders - the MAs? If I can get the same information from another set of signals freely available, with similar trading results, then in what way does paying for a formula that supposedly provides weightings on the MAs to give information to the predictive behaviour of the market that I cannot get anywhere else, give me an edge over what I had without it? Can you see where I am coming from? What is unique about the intermarket formula of VP that makes it "impossible" to make as accurate a decision without it as with it? Is the evidence there? That is what i want to find out.
Now I can see on this thread that others have gone down this track and either found a way, or have not found a way. That does not mean however, that I or others cannot walk the same path, albeit much later, in search of the same goals that others have had. Correct?

Pedrop,
I think the suggestion is good, to go back over the full thread and take the time to look at the ideas of those who pioneered the thread, and learn first from them. They are making it work. They are your mentors. Listen to them and test their words. If anyone can make it work, they can. And don't be put off by this. I have picked out many highlights of the thread and pasted it together in a 60pp. doc above to print out and go through and make notes with. Do it and resurface in a few weeks informed.

Zarni,
Yes, I'm reading your stuff too.

Cheers,
Frank
FrankieB
  • #804
  • Dec 2, 2006 4:46am Dec 2, 2006 4:46am
Frank

In Louis Mendelsohn's latest book, "Forex Trading Using Intermarket Analysis", 2006, he writes: "I also recommend using multiple confirming indicators in conjunction with each other." (P 86).

One of the main puposes of the book appears to be to show how "candlesticks might be used to analyse price action in conjunction with other techniques such as predicted and actual moving averages." (P 77).

He does this rather well for both a fairly smooth trend and a more choppy market, using the 5 day averages for the former and the 10 day for the latter.

Hope this helps.
  • #805
  • Dec 2, 2006 4:53am Dec 2, 2006 4:53am
thanks for the lead Trinity. Will chase this book up and have a look.
FrankieB
  • #806
  • Dec 5, 2006 12:43pm Dec 5, 2006 12:43pm
Williamk,
I was hoping you could elaborate with some more specifics of this method you are using. Specifically, S/L placement. Also, how has the method been performing since you last posted?
Quoting williamk
Howdy Stoney, I have been always confused on position trading and the sort. I place my trades when there are 4 out of 5 of the Predicted indicators either Positive or Negative. The 5 indicators are the Predicated High, Predicted Low, Predicted Short Term Trend, Predicted Med Term Trend & the Neural Index. When 4 out of 5 of these are again either + or -, I enter @ the market when I analyze all the crosses @ 6:30edt, so most of my entries are before the Asian session begins. The crosses that I trade this way are the GbpJpy(the best so far this year), EurJpy, EurCad, UsdChf & UsdJpy. I am also a believe diversification is the key. These crosses I mentioned trade 70% or better winners but of course not all the same time so I may have 4 trades on and 3 of them are winners.Some of these trades are open for 1 day or on average 3 days so I guess you could call this Position trading doesn't matter long as I'm making pips. I also trade these positions in 1/3s. I have targets @ 50pips, 100pips & 150pips. I'm now testing using 1/4s and letting the last 1/4 run. I'm not going to go on about how many pips I have captured but I will tell U it's plenty.

Happy pip hunting

Bill
  • #807
  • Dec 6, 2006 9:06am Dec 6, 2006 9:06am
TraderBill
I have been using the Average True Range for the last 10days for my StopLoss. Special thanks to BeachBum for bringing that method to my attention.
I have been trading Forex for 3yrs now and this has been the most profitable system that I have used yet and I have used more than I can count.

Happy Pip Hunting
Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #808
  • Dec 6, 2006 3:25pm Dec 6, 2006 3:25pm
Quoting williamk
TraderBill
I have been using the Average True Range for the last 10days for my StopLoss. Special thanks to BeachBum for bringing that method to my attention.
I have been trading Forex for 3yrs now and this has been the most profitable system that I have used yet and I have used more than I can count.

Happy Pip Hunting
Bill
Hi Bill

I seem to have missed BB's post on ATR and the search will not find it. Can you point me to it, and what period do you use?

Sorry I missed your post #756:[QUOTE "Howdy Trinity, Just reading Ur post and I was wondering does the Strength indicator jsut need to be Positive or Neg in combination with the others or is there a certain level the Strength Indicator needs to be for U to enter. I was entering when I have 4 out of the 5 I mentioned on the same side of 0."]

REPLY: I like to see the SI + for BUY and - for SELL. BUT, will take a move in the direction I favour even if not +/-. So, on Dec 5, I SOLD GBPJPY with a Pin Bar indication, STOC 9/7/7 good XO, and Knife suggesting SELL; based on VP PTM/PTS showing a reversal and SI from 0.29 to 0.05 (range of -24).
This produced +96 pips. I prefer to exit within the Ph/Pl but let this run past the Pl.

Hope this helps
  • #809
  • Dec 17, 2006 7:29pm Dec 17, 2006 7:29pm
Good thread.
  • #810
  • Dec 18, 2006 4:46pm Dec 18, 2006 4:46pm
I've been a user of Vantage Point software for awhile now and never had any real problems with it. Recently though when I try to open up market data in Vantage Point I get this error message:

'Unable to open database "C:\Program Files\Market Technologies\VantagePoint Intermarket Analysis Software\Database\GBP-USD Cash.MDB" - Unable to initialize DAO/Jet db engine.

This possibly corrupt database file will be deleted. If this problem persists, please contact Market Technologies technical support.'

I contacted technical support and they told me that DAO/Jet db engine is a Microsoft technology and that I should look in the knowledgebase on Microsoft.com to fix the error. I have been unable to find a solution to this error so far, as the solutions on the knowledgebase are not clear to me. Has anyone else had this problem or know how I can fix it? Thank you.
Making my living one pip at a time.....
  • #811
  • Dec 18, 2006 5:01pm Dec 18, 2006 5:01pm
Sorry, cp trader, I haven't had this problem yet (!). I would have expected better help from Market Technologies -- especially for the price they usually charge.

I might be worth a special MS contact for a solution.
  • #812
  • Dec 18, 2006 5:16pm Dec 18, 2006 5:16pm
Howdy cp_trader,
I don't know if this would help but I would try to do a Restore of Ur computer mayb a setting got changed or something. Think back when this problem started and do it say a week before that. Then if that doesn't work call the Data supplier like CRB or CSI whichever U use.
Good luck

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #813
  • Dec 18, 2006 9:20pm Dec 18, 2006 9:20pm
Some random suggestions:

Uninstall the data service providers program. Be sure to record your "user name" and "password". Then reinstall the program and begin as if it were a new installation for a data provider.

If that doesn't work, call VP and tell them you want to do the same thing with VP. That is uninstall the program and then reinstall. You will need a new registration key from them to activate the new install which is why you should call them before you do the uninstall. (ask for George Bougas in Tech Support...........great guy!)

HTH!


Quoting cp_trader
I've been a user of Vantage Point software for awhile now and never had any real problems with it. Recently though when I try to open up market data in Vantage Point I get this error message:

'Unable to open database "C:\Program Files\Market Technologies\VantagePoint Intermarket Analysis Software\Database\GBP-USD Cash.MDB" - Unable to initialize DAO/Jet db engine.

This possibly corrupt database file will be deleted. If this problem persists, please contact Market Technologies technical support.'

I contacted technical support and they told me that DAO/Jet db engine is a Microsoft technology and that I should look in the knowledgebase on Microsoft.com to fix the error. I have been unable to find a solution to this error so far, as the solutions on the knowledgebase are not clear to me. Has anyone else had this problem or know how I can fix it? Thank you.
  • #814
  • Dec 21, 2006 1:12pm Dec 21, 2006 1:12pm
Howdy all,
For all of you that have read my post about trading with VP using 4 out of the 5 indicators.
There is 1 cross that I do use the 10day cross only which is the GbpUsd. I went a little further in my observations in taking the crosses. I went back and looked @ the 5 indicators that I use on the other crosses and saw these results on the GbpUsd 10day cross of those indicators:

2 out of 5 @ the cross = 2 times and both were bad trades
3 out of 5 @ the cross = 4 times and 2 were bad & 2 were good
4 out of 5 @ the cross = 7 times and 3 were bad & 4 were good
5 out of 5 @ the cross = 19 times and 3 were bad and 16 GOOD

Take what U will from this but it looks to me 2 out of 5 is a NO GO for me

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #815
  • Dec 21, 2006 1:39pm Dec 21, 2006 1:39pm
Quoting williamk
Howdy all,
For all of you that have read my post about trading with VP using 4 out of the 5 indicators.
There is 1 cross that I do use the 10day cross only which is the GbpUsd. I went a little further in my observations in taking the crosses. I went back and looked @ the 5 indicators that I use on the other crosses and saw these results on the GbpUsd 10day cross of those indicators:

2 out of 5 @ the cross = 2 times and both were bad trades
3 out of 5 @ the cross = 4 times and 2 were bad & 2 were good
4 out of 5 @ the cross = 7 times and 3 were bad & 4 were good
5 out of 5 @ the cross = 19 times and 3 were bad and 16 GOOD

Take what U will from this but it looks to me 2 out of 5 is a NO GO for me

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
Bill, do you have the link to your post in question as to what indicators you are using in VP? Tried to search, but I probably missed it.

David
  • #816
  • Dec 21, 2006 3:06pm Dec 21, 2006 3:06pm
David I would suggest U go back and read all the post. The reason I suggest that is that there are a few different systems to meet all different personalities. But anyway my post is #743.

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #817
  • Dec 26, 2006 11:02pm Dec 26, 2006 11:02pm
I am looking at purchasing vp and I thought i had read someone paid 995 for it recently. Tell me more, the sales rep wants 3900.
  • #818
  • Dec 27, 2006 2:16am Dec 27, 2006 2:16am
chaddo11..........

It was probably my post you remember reading that quoted this price. Last year VP had what I would call an "end of year sale" and they discounted certain "packaged" markets. It is my understanding that VP no longer discounts their software or has sale periods. I don't believe you will be able to get VP at a discount. It's great software; you must decide if the price is justifyable for your trading. For me it was, and still is!


Quoting chaddo11
I am looking at purchasing vp and I thought i had read someone paid 995 for it recently. Tell me more, the sales rep wants 3900.
  • #819
  • Edited 5:58am Dec 27, 2006 2:33am | Edited 5:58am
From Post #668:


Quoting franc999
hi, i am new to this forum and just purchased a copy of VP recently, would like to ask the members here to comment on what i just did few days ago on verifying if Vantage point really uses intermarket data to predict as claimed. Please see attached file. It covers indexes, currencies, commodities..


I happened to use moving averages systems to trade, and use 3 days exponential/ 10 days simple MA to trade...to my surprise, the 3 days exponential MA is almost 100% the same as the VP's Predicted 10 days moving average !!

I am really disturbed by this surprised findings and wonder if the high priced software really justifies the investment.

I would feel better if someone here could let me know if my findings are wrong or has no basis...

I also tried to compare my own "PMTT/PSTT" and VP's PMTT/ PSTT since i know how VP developed the indicators. They are also indentical...

I have not verified the neutral index but knowing how this is derived based on Louis's book is not too difficult to create my own "neutral index"..

The question is, does VP really use intermarket data to analyse as claimed ? The single market analysis is as good and cost almost nothing...

Check out the attd zip file..

Comments please....

thanks
frank
I love this post because it begs the question: "Can I make as much money trading the EMA3 as I can with VP?"... Of course people who spent $1000s on this product are going to try to convince themselves that it works.... wouldn't you too?

Sure there are people making money with VP, but there are people making money with moving average systems too.

Throughout history, companies have sold products based on "scientific" claims, because the general public is gullable. "Based on electrostimulation, wearing this belt 5 minutes a day will give you a six pack." REALLY? Sounds like junk science to me. I'm leary of buzz words like "neural networks" because there is little evidence in scientific journals that show them to be effective in predicting commodity markets. Just my two cents.
  • #820
  • Dec 28, 2006 9:19am Dec 28, 2006 9:19am
Howdy tdion,
I wanted to thank you for that eye opening and earth shattering advice(NOT).
First I would like to know if you own Vantage Point or are you going off of what you have read about it from people who bought thinking that they were buying the Holy Grail and were sadly disappointed when the software didn't place the trades and exit for them.
I myself are one of those as you say "gullable" ones. But have taken the time to figure a way to make $$$ with this software not using the MA crosses but the other Predictive Indicators that they supply which enters me a few days earlier than the MA crosses. There are other Vantage Point users that have found other ways to use the Predictive Indicators to day trade.
I have looked back and read your posts on FF and it seems to be of a person still searching for a way to trade, well I hope you find it.
Oh by the way hows that Pyramid that coming

Fellow Pip Hunter
Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
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