Much of What You Know About 4X is Wrong!

You make a good point here, as usual. I'm finally, after several years of trading forex, starting to realize that I'm not a very good trader. Sure I can analyze charts and fundies, but when it comes to trading (the most important part of making profit) I'm just starting to learn what it takes to be 'The Real Deal'; therefore, until I have been consistantly in profit for a year or so (forget the 1,000 trades benchmark), I am willing to accept that the profit that I've made thus far is mostly luck. Only a fool would rely on luck to make a living, so that is another reason I started this thread. That reason being to expose the mental part of a system I think has potential thus openning myself and my system to critique before revealing the system. Once I feel the mental game is well in tact, I will open a new thread in the systems forum.

I think the view that the trend is your friend is, as self deceptive as the contrary view advocated in the first post on this thread. Ultimately the Trend, if it exists at all is irrelevant. This is evidenced by the fact that even intraday, the "trend" changes as we the market players attempt to achieve our goal to make a profit.

Trends only exist retrospectively> this is why in my view, back testing is largely a waste of time. Of more importance is the ability to tune into what is unfolding on the screen in front of you; the "edge" that was spoken of a few posts back perhaps. I'm sure we all have experienced that sense that the market can read your mind, that way it seems to change direction almost the second after you place your trade, taking money out of your account faster than you can blink. This happens whether you try and follow this imaginary "friend" or not! How many times after this has happened and your stop has been hit, or you've closed that trade yourself with a heavy heart, do you have that sinking feeling of regret when you've looked at the charts afterwards or sat there as the market unfolds infront of you, and you realise that if you'd just waited, it would have recovered and you would have broken even, or made a profit?..You were right all along!

Trite sayings such as those spouted by many experts (real or self-delude)
are simply an attempt to wrap traders in a warm comfort blanket of imaginary confidence, when in fact the only thing that a trader has the right to be confident about, is the fact that his account balance will change as a result of his decision to enter into the arena and take his chances against a creature made up of the hope, greed and fear of everyone else in the arena with him.

The only friend a trader has is profit. Leave the trend alone. It doesent care about your existence, it doesnt even really exist.....That's not to say you shouldn't try and take advantage of everyone else's belief in it. That's what gives you the edge in my view.

Good indicators dont tell you what the trend is doing, thay simply give you an insight into what other people are thinking about value. After all, though everyting ultimately has its price, its only worth what someone is prepared to pat for it. In trading, be it fx, indicies or commodities, the item up for sale in all cases is really the opportunity to make a profit not the instrumeent itself.

I like the way you think. At best, it seems a trend could be more accurately described as the prevailing market sentiment. Who's to say if and when this sentiment will change. Some of the best advice I've seen mentions ways to read what the markets true intensions are. A mixture of Fundamentals and Technicals that point to an imbalance that will need to be corrected in the future. Unfortunately for small guys like me, this tends to be very long term advise which requires a very large stop.

I have been reading this thread with great interest, getting the low-down on how different individuals see the markets and the various movements of prices. Maybe my opinion is worth every nickle you will ever pay for it, but I think you are on to something.

Reason says that if the majority of traders believe the adages of the conventional wisdom of the markets ("The trend is your friend", "Cut your losses short and let your profits run", etc.), and 90-95% of traders lose money, then it would make sense to believe and do differently.

I, too believed fully in those bits of wisdom, until I blew up an account trading live. Now, I am back to paper trading with a new attitude, and an expensive education. Now I see that randomness is a great deal of market action, but there are patterns that repeat themselves over and over. Now, my (admittedly paper money) trading is more measured, more in tune with the "retracements" of the market, making smaller position sized bets, and catching the retracements after a strong move more accurately than trying to ride a "trend". I am also quicker to take profits, rather than expect that I can predict any sustained move for hundreds of pips. Anyway, for what it may be worth, I have been able to rack up some sizable positive pips in my practice account by not following my "friend". Whether I can translate this over to trading real money will bear out in the near future.

BTW, there is a really fascinating ebook by Dirk du Toit called "Bird Watching in Lion Country" in which he discusses the conventional wisdom of trading and gives a real-life alternative approach. Many of the things that this thread addresses, he discusses very eloquently, and gives real reasons NOT to "let your profits run" or "cut your losses short", try to catch a 50-100 pip trend, or trade 100 or more to 1.

I do not know him, or get any payment for recommending his ebook. I don't really plan on copying his trading method verbatum, but this book would have saved me considerable money had I taken it to heart earlier. I know there are some rules against spamming here, so I wont even post the URL for the book, but you can google it, if you are interested.

It is worth noting that, just because traders profess to have a belief, it doesn't mean that they are able to trade it. I have known a large number of traders to fail over the last few years and a very few to succeed. I've never know someone to fail because the took their trades with the trend.

Also, bwilc is a trend is your friend orientated strategy.

"The Trend is Your Friend" does not imply: trend following (hanging on for grim death) or buying without waiting for the retracement. All it means is that moves with the trend are likely to be longer than moves against it (define it with mas or tlines or channels on whatever timeframe you can live with) , and are more likely to forgive timing errors (because if you're right about the trend the opposing move is less likely to get back to your stop before a supporting move occurs).

I've been a long time lurker (only registered yesterday), but I've been demo trading for a while now and researching various aspects of this market.

My opinion is that trends (as someone else noted) are really only trends in retrospect. My opinion is based more on physics than anything else.

In physics, it's trivial to predict were a single object will be given it's velocity and direction. With two, it's still simple. With three, things start getting hairier. But once you get into the thousands, being able to predict what will happen to a single particle becomes very computationally expensive, if not intractable. Indeed, the particles become subject to Brownian motion. The Random Walk is a more simplified version of this.

So I'm a believer in the Random Walk Hypothesis? Not exactly. Random walks and Brownian motion often times assume that the interactions are between like entities. That is something that is NOT true in the markets. To continue with th physics analogy, there are definitely some particles (major banks and the like) that have a more measurable effect on the other particles around them than others. Brownian motion and random walks also assume that the conditions remain the same, which is also not true in the markets.

Most of the time, the market has no discernable trend. Brownian motion or a random walk apply here. If there were no external forcings and everyone were equal, the market would stay that way. But that is not the case.

So I believe trends do happen because the system is not in equilibrium. So far (at least to me), it seems trends happen in response to one of 4 things.

1. Big Particles
The major players in the market have a majority of the "potential energy". When they move, all the smaller particles get affected. The ones who are glued to their screens (what I would call "close" particles) will be affected the most and the quickest. Just like in physics though, the energy of the move dissipates. The longer the time lag, the less energy there is to keep the move going. The decay rate of this energy in the forex market is very quick. The bigger the move, the more energy there is and the longer the time is for particles to get on board.

2. Small Particles
This one happens less often. One small particle will not affect the market and ends up just being some small noise in the background. But 10,000 small particles will start to affect the market. These trends usually don't happen quickly, and a lot of them don't last very long. But if the small particles can reach a "critical mass", then they can have the same effect as a larger particle. An example of this, would be a large group of traders having nearly the same buy signal. If it were hit, it would start an uptrend. Hypothetically, this would ripple out to other "particles" who would respond to the movement of this mass and the uptrend would continue until the energy was spent.

3. Small Particles In a Sparse Environment
Even a small group of particles can cause a trend if there aren't may others around. This could happen in the "off-hours" of a particular currency. If the background "energy" is low, then every spike can become a trend. Since there is little to counteract the momentum, these may end up looking like stronger trends than they actually are. Usually these are "normalized" again as all the other particles come back into the market.

4. Tipping the Balance
These trends are the hardest to detect and are usually only seen in hindsight. These are slow long lasting trends that happens when there is small but fairly consistent imbalance of energy in the market. A good example of this has been the decline of the dollar. It wasn't a spontaneous plummet, but a gradual fall over a number of years. No single event caused it, just the general input of "negative" energy on a continuous basis. Of course, this can eventualy trigger a more noticeable trend when certain points are hit ("OMG! The dollar is worth less than the Candaian Looney!").

Notice I did not mention news. News can indeed incite a trend, but news is not necessary to make a trend. There are also some other things to consider with trends.

1. The Big Particles Collide
When you have a bunch of big particles moving in the same direction, you have a nice strong trend to follow. But big particles don't always move in the same direction, nor do they all move at exactly the same time or with the same amount of energy. When this happens, you get volatility instead of a trend. The overall energy of the market is higher, but there may not be enough energy in either direction. You may have an up trend for five minutes with a downtrend a minute later taking away the uptrend. You can also end up with a staggered trend, as energy from dies off just as another begins to ramp up. Times when this can happen is usually before financial data is released and there is an amount of uncertainty. Major Bank A may decide that it will be good news while Major Bank B is more pessimistic. How this scenario depends on how strongly they feel about their position and how much risk they are willing to take.

2. When Little Particles Get In The Way
As another poster said, when a major player chooses a decision he does not question the move. However, there are times (rare) when enough of the small particles generate enough energy to slow down or halt a big particle. If there is enough energy, it may even cause a reversal or trigger a bigger player to make a move in the market.

3. Quantum Tunneling
Also known as the failed trend or "WTF?". I've seen this happen when a big player moves very quickly and causes a sudden spike. If a move happens to suddenly the rest of the particles may have a delayed reaction or no reaction at all. SLs or TPs would be triggered almost immediately so those players would have no time to react. If there were no discernible reason for the move, many just wonder WTF? Some may react, some will wait it out to see what really is going on.

4. The Big Bang Theory
Not so much a theory, as the eventual unpredictability of news events. News happens, and can shift a trend on a dime. So even if you were riding a good energy wave you could easily find yourself falling into a black hole.

For the most part, the energy of the market is zero e.g it is not trending. It is only when this equilibrium is disturbed that you will have a trend. These disturbances are often caused by outside forces, similar to how you can change the motion of dust particles in a sunbeam by waving your hand. These disturbances can be very short, or very long, depending on the conditions. But eventually the market returns to an equilibrium again, awaiting the next disturbance.

So the trend is your friend? Not really. The trend is more like a one night stand. All of them look good, and they may even be fun but they are just as likely to give you bad news ("Uh there's something you should know...") as good news ("Wow! That was amazing! Let's do it again!").

And of course, there really isn't any way to predict a trend. The most predictable is news (to a point), since there are regular financial releases. But trends don't always happen on news. Instead of trends, you may just end up with a lot of volatility. Or the news may yield uncertainty as well, which means there may be a lot of energy to move, but no one is willing to make move (which can cause sudden shifts out of nowhere). There are also certain signals that usually occur when a trend is going to happen, but again they are not consistently reliable.

Even if you have a wall of 20 indicators all pointing to a trend, one single market mover can suck the energy right out of the market.

So then, I'm a pessimist right? There's no way to win, right? Not necessarily. The trick isn't to beat the market. Such a goal is, statistically speaking, impossible. The trick is to win more cash than you lose. Obvious right?

Well, maybe not so obvious to some. Some traders are always looking to get better win averages. They're spending lots of time and effort trying to predict and beat the market. Their target is >50% win-loss. Firstly, win percentage is not an end all be all. Secondly, maintaining a high percentage is an effort of futility. What works at one point in time may end up a complete failure the next.

What one should focus on is quality of wins. If you only win 20% of the time but each win nets you 200 pips versus 80% losers but only 20 pips per loss, you're making out like a bandit. For every ten trades, you're making 400 pips and only losing 160. That's a net of 240 pips. I'd call that one good strategy.

I wouldn't say trends are irrelevant. They represent breaks from the market norm. They are opportunities but they are fickle. The shorter the timescale, the more fickle they become. In fact, shorter timescale increases the noise so it's harder to discern a trend.

And of course, to end up a winner good money management is paramount. But being winner does not necessarily mean you're winning most of the time, it just means that at the end of the day your wins total more than your loses.

So there it is. Flame it if you'd like. The markets aren't purely chaos, but they aren't all that predictable either. Trends occur when energy is either added or removed from the market, but at some point the always return to equilibrium of some fashion. Sometimes these changes can be forecasted (news events), other times they aren't. Sometimes they are so gradual you don't even notice there is a trend.

But in the end:

You have to know when buy 'em,
Know when to short 'em,
Know when to cut your loss,
And let profits run.

You never count your pips,
While you have a live position,
There'll be time enough for countin',
When the market's closed.

~X~

But the market is a collection of loosely and tightly interacting human minds.

They have imperfect information (most).
They are irrational (spot the ones who aren't).
They don't believe in a trend early and then they keep believing it it too long.
They have a tendency to irrational exuberance (and despondency).

In those components many of the most elegant models of the market have foundered.

Thank you Xyrus and welcome to FF

Your post reminded me of a parallel I often draw between physics and the market involving fluid dynamics and the Bernoulli equation. Like in your analogy, the market provides occasional catalysts to create velocity and change the natural order of things. As everyone who's traded live for a while knows too well, it's these catalysts (news, banks, panic...) that can make or break you unless you are prepared to react quickly.

Thanks also to Kenny Logins for the traders version of 'The Gambler'

reading this tread i realize (duh) that there are really brilliant guys trading and losing . how is that possible?

I will not beat around the bush , so here goes

1. most traders lose in the end
2. experts can " teach " but dont make money in trading themselves. why?
3. there are so many indicators that point every which way.
4. all the predictions say the price could go this way, but!! or it could go that way, but!! or it could pass the supp/res or not, or it could go past the supp/res but could reverse!!

IF we dont have a system that works and every decision is uncertain then we are simply GAMLING and thats why the statistics for win/loss is the same as gambling.

With almost everyone failing in trading isnt it time someone says hey " THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOSE "

We have been given a very detailed map of the south pole of a treasure that we are searching for in the north pole and the funny thing is we dont need a map. the path is there in front of us but we all thought it couldnt be that easy, nah, no way.

which brings me to my topic . Has anyone really looked at the candle stick patterns, no, I mean really looked at them

this is what it is all about

1. indicators are all USELESS, yea, really.

the only things that matter are

1. candles > 60 min TF
2. sup/res in the candle formation
3. fundamental announcements F/A
4. major market opening M/O

I will now expand on the 4(not in any order)

4. the market opening candle is normally very decisive because only it (or F/A)can push through a supp/res.

3. F/A like above is what can push through a supp/res when the players in the market react to the news.

2. Supp/res CANNOT be calculated. It is in the charts in all and every time-frame. (when the price reverses look to the left of the reversal to see what you find at the last time the price was that value.

1.which brings me to the first heading which I had to leave for last since if I had written it first you would have stopped reading the rest of this article.

so here goes

WHEN THE CANDLES ( F/A or M/O) GO PAST THE SUPP/RES , WE CAN CALCULATE "TO THE PIP" THE EXPECTED MOVE OF THE PRICE FOR CERTAINTY.
( THATS WHY WE HAVE THE BIG RUNS ON SUNDAY BECAUSE THE MOVE WAS NOT FINISHED ON FRIDAY)

NOW THE QUESTION(S)

WILL I BE OFFERING COURSES ON A WEBSITE FOR ONLY 49.99 A MONTH NO!!

WILL I BE SELLING AN E-BOOK FOR 39.99. NO!!!

WHY WOULD I SELL MAPS TO A TREASURE UNLESS THERE IS NOTHING THERE.
BUT IF THERE IS....THEN WHAT

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
THE SAME THING I AM/WILL BE DOING.

Hi dungle,
Funny you should mention the 'intelligence factor' thingy now. When I woke up today I was wondering the same thing myself. The majority of FF members are well educated and certainly not stupid by most accounts, yet I often hear that one major reason traders fail is because they are stupid or untrained or don't have discipline...This make me wonder-DO YOU NEED TO BE EINSTEIN TO SUCCEED AT TRADING?

I'm really not upset about the level of BS that seams to float around, I just want to examine it in hopes of narrowing my game plan to the point where I can swim in the same waters with the sharks and their BS and be profitable for more than a couple months in a row.

Once you have devised a trading method that works for you - trend retracement and trend reversal and trend continuation technical indicators sorted, system strategy back tested and paper traded successfuly, scope of achievable pips determined, stop loss strategy planned, live trading commenced with suitable trading bank and prudent money management -

Soon after - YOU LOSE THE PLOT!!!!!

Human nature is the major failing of unsuccessful traders...

The "Cold feet" scenario, stop loss not implemented, the predicted move goes significantly against you, you decide to cut your losses (more than your risk assessed stop loss worst position) even though you know deep down inside you that it will eventually turn around and go where you expected it to go. This situation is usually founded on greed - i.e. over exposure of your capital. You probably had good early success and decide that you are being over cautious. WRONG!

Now your targets are breached, you decide to correct the situation.

WRONG! You now double up your lot size or pip stake on the next available trade. This time you salvage the situation, and you decide to close your trade early, even though your strategy suggests it will continue as expected. IT DOES! So, now you are frustrated that you have missed big trading wins on the last two trades.

Frustration - It is not happening quickly enough - I told Rodney that by this time next year we'd be millionaires...

You now encounter one of the STRANGE days. You know, bad fundamentals for the pair you are trading, YET unbelievably, the market moves against the logical direction. WHAT?
You lose, your stop loss is hit. You are now FRUSTRATED and CONFUSED...

Strategy goes out of the window...

After several more panic ridden trades you throw caution to the wind and forget about your system strategy. You are now reading opposing forum opinions, airy fairy (sitting on the fence) financial sites news articles, you are convinced Iran will nuke Israel, etc. etc.
You go with your gut instinct and your trade goes wrong, you have placed a stop loss BUT you keep moving it as it is gradually encroached upon.

Major loss ensues - confidence shattered, England lose to Russia, blah blah blah...

You decide to go back to the drawing board, review on a back test basis your trades undertaken (within your original strategy), and you realise that, OK, maybe not massive returns would have accrued, but with patience and compounding over time, you have a system that will deliver.

So, my take on trading is (Been there bought the T Shirt):

If you are lucky enough to have found a system that works for you - USE IT don't ABUSE IT!

Take your losses. Understand that the trend is your friend if you are not too greedy and don't go chasing rainbows...

Xyrus, welcome to the forums. As a nuclear engineer (former) I enjoyed the physics reviews, especially your inference to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. As a trader (present) I think you overlooked one of the most basic laws of physics. Namely, Newton's first law.

My only other point of contention is to point out that markets are driven by human emotion and a herd mentality whereas the laws of physics are not. Electrons do not make quantum jumps to a higher orbit when they get scared.

WOW!
While reading your post I was re-living my past experiences with trading. You've obviously been there bla bla.

Just for the record I've updated my view about trends by stating, "The Trend is your Friendly Aquaintance"

I'm amazed by how much importance traders place on trends and how many well stated view points on this subject have been posted in 24Hrs.

Hello again Dr. Phil

Personally, I like to concider all 3 of Newton's laws of motion without exclusion because the market is in a constantly fluid as a result of all three. Perhaps the first law has a greater effect, but I find it difficult to determine how much force has acted upon the mass (market) so that in turn limits greatly my ability to predict future movement.

Thanks
M-MM

Fluid dynamics is indeed a good parallel to markets.

And just like in fluid dynamics, some general predictions can be made as a result of factors such as viscosity, turbulence, flow rate, etc.

However, these predictions are general. Trying to predict exactly where and when a vortex or wave propagation will happen is pretty much impossible in real life.You can set up a model and compute it (with a super-computer), but that is only a model, not a real life flow.

You may not be able to predict where and when such disturbances occur, but you can determine characteristics of these disturbances and the usual results. Just like turning a nozzle on a hose; you may not be able to predict which direction all the water will go, but you have a general idea of where it's going to go.

Indicators are not useless in this regard. Indicators are using general information about the flow of the market to help establish a possible direction. They are not perfect. They can be wrong. But the indicators are established based on observations of what usually seems to happen.

Indicators are their most useful at the longer time steps. The shorter you go, the more noise you get and the more false signals you will receive using indicators. There is a lot more volatility at the lower levels. While volatility may seem like it offers more opportunities to ride a trend, more often than not it ends up wiping out accounts.

Too many come into forex with dollar signs in their eyes. Unfortunately this ends up blinding a lot of people. They buy the latest trading robots and watch in dismay as their account is emptied. They buy dozens of books on technical analysis and patterns and still can't turn a profit. They try and trade on the 1 minute charts and are consistently left holding the bag.

The way you win is by understanding the market. It is mostly chaotic, with periods of direction. Work with market, not try and beat it. Patience is key, as another poster said. Jumping at every signal will empty your account. Wait for the opportune moments, then play it safe.

You won't make a million a year, but then again such a goal is unrealistic. To put it another way, George Soros's best year was a 30% ROI, and he's arguably one of the best investors out there.

~X~

Lost me right there. What isn't other than price action itself.

Of course defining the start of a trend can be lagging. What do you want someone to call you up and say: "Hey a new trend has started, jump on board but don't tell anyone else". But if a trend is a true trend taking even half of the move is damn good. If you are wrong, you are stopped out. Thats trading.

Ok...

The discussion hit a good tune at some point but the "bubble" just bursted and the arguments are decreasing very fast.


First i'm starting to see that... neo-pseudo-creative kind of thinking, "hey lets do the oposite of all tech basics since the others are losing."


At this point i have to agree with Kiwi_Trader and goonergonebad when they say that knowing what to do is not a garantee that the trader is doing it.

In fact i know one guy around here that knows exactly what to do and advises the others to do it, and then he does the opposite and goes insane wierdly enough.

This assumpion that everyone is following conventional wisdom of the markets just because they know it, is a very poor argument against the trend.

In fact, someone that says this, NEVER read the Cable Thread...

Since its start, the reversal calls happen at a DAILY basis, coming from all kinds of traders in the forum.

So, assuming that everyone is going with the flow like we should, is just bad logic.




In other hand, the thread wouldn't be completed with the so wasted ROI argument.

George Soros made 30% year and 30% year should be seen as a dream for everyone.

How basic thinking can this be?

There are tons of threads explaining that trading with fortunes is completly different considering a series of elements like

LESS or NO leverage...

Microscopic risk...

Longer Term Trades...

Fundamental Investement (not trading)

Less liquidity...




Very simple... lets look at weight lifters. The light weights lift around 3 to 3,5 times their body weight. The heavy weights lift only 2 times their body weight, however they are the best because they lift more.

The weight in this case is the money... the ROI which is the more important for us traders is the x times they lift the weight of their bodies.

Hmmm. why am i saying this? Only 2 or 3 ppl in the entire forum will understand...

That might be trading to you, but I'm open to other posibilities and willing to think outside the box in order to find them. Like I've said in earlier posts, there's much more happening on most currency charts than a simple trend that should be treated like a friend.

"The only friend I have in trading is profit"
and you can quote me on that!

I think that a number of highly significant points have been made in this thread so far and i think its fair to say no matter how one approaches the issue of the trend, the real battle is one over the heart and mind. In my experience they combine to become a traders biggest opponent in the trading game.

Someone above said that when big players make a trade they don't question the decision. I dare say this isn't because there is any greater level of knowledge necessarily, but because blame and accountability are spread around as are the profits of success and so there are less emotions involved. Now for the average trader who frequents the likes of this forum, all decisions rest on our own shoulders. If we make out like bandits on a trade, we feel as though we are almost invincible, if we loose, that cloud of despondency settles rather quickly clouding your outlook. I remember the time shortly after i first started trading, about 6 weeks, with a few thousand pounds and a plan (bought and paid for), that i blew out my account.

With the benefit of hind sight i simply took leave of my senses. I remember feeling my manhood shriveling up to the size of a pea as I watched the the Dow trundle along like a freight train draining my account with every point that it raced up by. I say i lost my senses because even though i could see what was happening, i paced around the room squeezing my bladder talking to myself convincingly that the market would come good and i would rise from the ashes like a Phoenix. Contrast that to the week before when in one day i made almost 5k. the day after that i remember sitting on a further profit of almost a grand, but not quite. i told myself, and i remember this clearly, that i wasn't 'getting out of bed' for less than a grand on the trade I was in.

Suffice to say i sat there while the circa £950 profit dwindled and waned into net loss of about £200! why? because i hadn't mastered the psychological side of trading. Blowing my account the following day was almost inevitable as i had not then realized that a few good trades does not a trader make.

What makes a trader then? Well for me the tables have now been turned. i learned a lot a bout my response to stress and my appetite for risk and realized I had to accommodate these two aspects before looking at a trading system. Thats what made me into some semblance a trader. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some super fly guy who swoops down like a superhero rescuing pips from the jaws of the evil market beast, at least not on a daily basis,() but i am now able to make much more than i lose and am able to resist the impulse to trade everything in sight. Theres an old saying, that "he who spends his day chasing after money will go to bed empty handed and tired" In my experience it true.

Now what does all this have to do with trends? well i believe most traders will go through an experience similar to mine in their early days in one way or the other. the market needs people like that to 'eat up' to give it the energy to move. Whilst i remain convinced that trends per se only exist in retrospect, i don't think the market cares where it gets its daily bread from and if it sees a collection of traders hanging around in one direction, it will go after us with the intention of devouring us whole! the trick is to be able to remain out of sight and get carried along by the slipstream as others are devoured around you, not forgetting that it could stop on a dime, turn tale and lock you in its sight for the same treatment. Happy trading!

Oh oh! The cryptology department has invaded MY thread.

Please speak directly or pass out decoders to everyone else. This is a discussion thread in a discussion forum and till now all was going very smooth. Secret hand shakes are better left elsewhere.