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Is trading a competition, battle or war?

  • #21
  • Sep 29, 2007 6:09am Sep 29, 2007 6:09am
I can’t remember where I read this but I think this describes forex the best.
THE MARKET ALWAYS WINS!!!!
Two guys are walking in a forest suddenly they see a bear so they start to run away. After a few minutes one of the guys stops and changes his shoes quickly from hiking to running shoes. The other guy asks what are you doing. Why did you stop? The guy responds I don’t have to out run the bear I just have to out run you!!!! DON’T TRY TO BEAT THE MARKET ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BEAT THE OTHER TRADERS!
  • #22
  • Sep 29, 2007 6:24am Sep 29, 2007 6:24am
I do treat it as a war/battle against other traders. And so I name sometimes my units as various kind of soldiers . What is the market? I tell you. It is the other traders. The market is a concentration of fear and greed of other traders amongst 2 million other things. My 2 cents.
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  • #23
  • Sep 29, 2007 8:41am Sep 29, 2007 8:41am
Yeah, I see it as a war... We know over 90% of traders lose money, so we don't want to do what the majority do
  • #24
  • Sep 29, 2007 11:06am Sep 29, 2007 11:06am
Quoting Dark1
Are there any other one word analogies which would better describe trading?

Ocean.
  • #25
  • Sep 29, 2007 11:28am Sep 29, 2007 11:28am
yeah it is/financial game but if the statistic says 90 % fails why help other people by getting better wouldnt that be a bad habit ? please dont misunderstand me i like to help share my ideas im just thinking every time i have booked profit i have taken money from one of those 90 percent i doubt i take profits from my broker. So what will happen if the persons who fails decrease to 50 % will it be harder for retail traders to bank profit lol sorry but this is my black humor.

revoke
  • #26
  • Sep 29, 2007 2:10pm Sep 29, 2007 2:10pm
I like to help people get started.. I know I wish I had someone to help me at first... Why do I help? Well, it really makes no difference if the people I help do well as the market is so big, a few traders really won't make any difference. Theres plenty of huge intitutions with extremely large trading accounts losing their funds as well. I'd rather be on the other end of some of their losing trades :-)

Pete
  • #27
  • Sep 29, 2007 3:26pm Sep 29, 2007 3:26pm
Even if I tell people what I am doing 2 things happen most likely: 1. They dont do it. 2. They will do it in a different way. So it really doesn't matter if I help or not. Discipline and patience cannot be taught. You have to figure it out yourself and that is the key to the success amongst other things.
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  • #28
  • Sep 29, 2007 3:39pm Sep 29, 2007 3:39pm
Quoting bullrock
Even if I tell people what I am doing 2 things happen most likely: 1. They dont do it. 2. They will do it in a different way. So it really doesn't matter if I help or not. Discipline and patience cannot be taught. You have to figure it out yourself and that is the key to the success amongst other things.
Yes, this is very true.. Also if a strategy involves some degree of discretion, the end results could be very different if traded by two different people.
  • #29
  • Sep 29, 2007 5:50pm Sep 29, 2007 5:50pm
I see trading as a martial art. Mastery of yourself is mastery of the art.
To be one with the market, you must first be one with yourself.
  • #30
  • Sep 29, 2007 6:10pm Sep 29, 2007 6:10pm
I think its BS thinking that trading is a war with other traders in the forex market, the volume and liquidity is so huge that even people with huge accounts (20 mil for example, and is there anyone on here trading that much? I doubt it) are but a tiny drop in the ocean. With thinner markets such as equities its a different story. The combat in the forex market occurs between institutional banks. We are just fishing peanuts out from behind the sofa in comparison. You could probably put every single retail forex trader in the world to place a trade simultaneously and it would do nothing and thats probaby more to do with the fact that your trades never reach the money markets anyway. I agree that the zero sum game means that for every winner there must be a loser, but the size of the players is extremely important, so the way I think of it when you win, your just pocketing some of george soros' chump change thats floating around, or some of BOJ's exchange rate intervention fund. The biggest battle I think is with your broker.
  • #31
  • Sep 29, 2007 8:30pm Sep 29, 2007 8:30pm
I kind of think its a battle of figuring out the best combination of indicators among all the traders. Up and down is 50-50 but up and down and sideways with fear and greed is 20-80 then add the turns and brokers and you can see why its easy to get to that 95% failure rate.
I tell ya. this stuff aint easy and folks that think that its "just mental" probably wont last long. Hope in this business will kill you quickly. I think you better have an iron clad system and don't deviate or be an artist in the brain with charts. ...and for every system there is a counter in the market to kick you silly!
just my 2 sence.
  • #32
  • Sep 30, 2007 1:29pm Sep 30, 2007 1:29pm
it's gambling
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #33
  • Sep 30, 2007 1:53pm Sep 30, 2007 1:53pm
Quoting soultrader
it's gambling
Not really. and these kind of statements are those what are really pissing me off. Like my family who dont know anything about money markets.... You are either just teasing here or want to generate some sort of discussion or a something complete else who should shut down his forex trading. There were long discussions regarding this matter and it is FAAAAAAAAAAAR away from gambling...
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  • #34
  • Sep 30, 2007 1:55pm Sep 30, 2007 1:55pm
Quoting soultrader
it's gambling
You must be joking anyway with such a background
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  • #35
  • Sep 30, 2007 2:08pm Sep 30, 2007 2:08pm
its gambling if u dont know what u are doing... but if u have a good strategy with solid risk control, you can get a nice edge in the long term. If you do this, you are trading, not gambling.
  • #36
  • Sep 30, 2007 2:10pm Sep 30, 2007 2:10pm
Quoting peterM
its gambling if u dont know what u are doing... but if u have a good strategy with solid risk control, you can get a nice edge in the long term. If you do this, you are trading, not gambling.
Well thanks PeterM... I never know how to express myself properly.
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  • #37
  • Oct 1, 2007 3:23am Oct 1, 2007 3:23am
It's gambling - the words used by Peter - 'edge' 'risk control' are all synonymous with gambling.

poker is gambling, roulette is gambling, forex is gambling.

you said that if you have a good strategy and risk control it's not gambling - that's like saying that if you have a system on poker of betting when certain hands come up and a method of staking plan that it's not gambling - it is gambling.

Gambling - the placing of a wager on something of which you have no control over the outcome.

Now unless you have about 20 billion that you could throw in the market then you have no control over the market - you are gambling.

There are gamblers who make money, i'm one of them and there are others in here - but it's essential that you see trading for what it really is - a gamble.

systems, risk management, staking plans, discipline to follow rules, knowing the probabilities - these are all gambling terms.

The only part of trading that isnt gambling is when it's a sure thing like an arb for example.

Traders do not like to hear this because there is a stigma associated with being a gambler but wether you like it or not that's what you are doing.

If it was not a gamble, you would never lose.
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #38
  • Oct 1, 2007 3:54am Oct 1, 2007 3:54am
Quoting soultrader
It's gambling - the words used by Peter - 'edge' 'risk control' are all synonymous with gambling.

poker is gambling, roulette is gambling, forex is gambling.

you said that if you have a good strategy and risk control it's not gambling - that's like saying that if you have a system on poker of betting when certain hands come up and a method of staking plan that it's not gambling - it is gambling.

Gambling - the placing of a wager on something of which you have no control over the outcome.

Now unless you have about 20 billion that you could throw in the market then you have no control over the market - you are gambling.

There are gamblers who make money, i'm one of them and there are others in here - but it's essential that you see trading for what it really is - a gamble.

systems, risk management, staking plans, discipline to follow rules, knowing the probabilities - these are all gambling terms.

The only part of trading that isnt gambling is when it's a sure thing like an arb for example.

Traders do not like to hear this because there is a stigma associated with being a gambler but wether you like it or not that's what you are doing.

If it was not a gamble, you would never lose.
Could you please show me someone who could consistently win on roulette. Also could you show me someone who had/has a business (whatsoever) with zero risk and all the deals/trades are winners/profitable. (Maybe the coco traders but they have a legal risk). In your terms everything that has larger risk than zero is gambling.
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  • #39
  • Oct 1, 2007 4:10am Oct 1, 2007 4:10am
I can show you a man who made 2.5 million on roulette my friend by using a system over 2 years - absolute truth i tell you. - just as the horse racing pundits make money and just as many blackjack players make money - all are gamblers and all professions where winners are in the minority

as for who had/has a business (whatsoever) with zero risk and all the deals/trades are winners/profitable take a look at your broker - they make money on every trade you make, win or lose.

Just because trading is gambling does not mean it's bad - As a professional trader of almost 6 years now I am definetly a professional gambler and happy to be that - call me a trader, call me a gambler and i care not one way or the other as long as I make money.

But it is gambling, like it or not. - can i ask why it bothers you so much?
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #40
  • Oct 1, 2007 4:18am Oct 1, 2007 4:18am
here's a very interesting article ive found.

of course i would find one like this - i'll now go and see if i can find one with the opposite view for a balanced perspective.

http://www.financial-spread-betting....g-Trading.html
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
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