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How many pips does a "successful" trader collect weekly?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 8, 2005 11:27am May 8, 2005 11:27am
Personally, I am contented to declare that a triumphant trader may accumulate up to 100-pips weekly. Apparently some of you believe that is high. That may well be for several reasons but we're not going to get into that now.

So, I am interested in getting feedback from all of you. I would like to hear what YOU believe the average, full-time trader might gather (+pips) weekly...presuming he/she has:

  1. A dependable strategy
  2. The proper mind
  3. A tangible account management plan

  • #2
  • May 8, 2005 12:04pm May 8, 2005 12:04pm
Quoting cilvurfx
Personally, I am contented to declare that a triumphant trader may accumulate up to 100-pips weekly. Apparently some of you believe that is high. That may well be for several reasons but we're not going to get into that now.

So, I am interested in getting feedback from all of you. I would like to hear what YOU believe the average, full-time trader might gather (+pips) weekly...presuming he/she has:

  1. A dependable strategy
  2. The proper mind
  3. A tangible account management plan

'The average full time trader' is highly likely to be a loser, so we are talking negative pips here.

The number of pips a sucessful trader makes per week is irrelevant because it is not the number of pips that counts but how much you win per pip. As I said elsewhere, pip counting is a mugs game.
  • #3
  • May 8, 2005 1:36pm May 8, 2005 1:36pm
Quoting cilvurfx
Personally, I am contented to declare that a triumphant trader may accumulate up to 100-pips weekly. Apparently some of you believe that is high. That may well be for several reasons but we're not going to get into that now.

So, I am interested in getting feedback from all of you. I would like to hear what YOU believe the average, full-time trader might gather (+pips) weekly...presuming he/she has:

  1. A dependable strategy
  2. The proper mind
  3. A tangible account management plan

Being a beginner at forex trading I dont have the slightest clue. But I would be very interested to hear what the people who have been trading for awhile have to say.
  • #4
  • May 9, 2005 5:15pm May 9, 2005 5:15pm
Quoting cilvurfx
I would like to hear what YOU believe the average, full-time trader might gather (+pips) weekly...presuming he/she has:

  1. A dependable strategy
  2. The proper mind
  3. A tangible account management plan

if a full time trader has a dependable strategy, the proper mind and a tangible accountmanagment plan, they are most likely successful. and successful traders dont know how many pips they make in a week, because the statistic is totally irrelevant to the performance of their portfolio.
Relax and be happy.
  • #5
  • May 9, 2005 8:44pm May 9, 2005 8:44pm
Quoting merlin
if a full time trader has a dependable strategy, the proper mind and a tangible accountmanagment plan, they are most likely successful. and successful traders dont know how many pips they make in a week, because the statistic is totally irrelevant to the performance of their portfolio.
Merlin, you keep saying that, and the light grows less dim each time, but I still don't quite get what you mean about the irrelevancy of pips. I've heard you and others say, "it's not the pips, it's the dollar value of the pips". That phrase really bothers me because the first thing that comes to my mind is "Oh Wow! Pile on the leverage so I can get $1000 a pip!!!" I know this is not what is meant but it sure comes across like that and I'm concerned it might be harmful to newbie traders. That said, could you expand on the irrelavency of pips while also downplaying high leverage? Where is the balance. I just don't get it .

Thanks in advance Merlin!

Diallist
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  • #6
  • May 10, 2005 1:16am May 10, 2005 1:16am
Quoting diallist
Merlin, you keep saying that, and the light grows less dim each time, but I still don't quite get what you mean about the irrelevancy of pips. I've heard you and others say, "it's not the pips, it's the dollar value of the pips". That phrase really bothers me because the first thing that comes to my mind is "Oh Wow! Pile on the leverage so I can get $1000 a pip!!!" I know this is not what is meant but it sure comes across like that and I'm concerned it might be harmful to newbie traders. That said, could you expand on the irrelavency of pips while also downplaying high leverage? Where is the balance. I just don't get it .

Thanks in advance Merlin!

Diallist
I believe what Merlin is saying is that total portfolio gain is tied more to the nember of lots traded rather than the number of pips scored. 10pips X 10 lots = 100 pips X 1 lot (only trade as many lots as you can afford - RISK MANAGEMENT!!)
  • #7
  • May 10, 2005 4:25am May 10, 2005 4:25am
Quoting diallist
Merlin, you keep saying that, and the light grows less dim each time, but I still don't quite get what you mean about the irrelevancy of pips. I've heard you and others say, "it's not the pips, it's the dollar value of the pips". That phrase really bothers me because the first thing that comes to my mind is "Oh Wow! Pile on the leverage so I can get $1000 a pip!!!" I know this is not what is meant but it sure comes across like that and I'm concerned it might be harmful to newbie traders. That said, could you expand on the irrelavency of pips while also downplaying high leverage? Where is the balance. I just don't get it .

Thanks in advance Merlin!

Diallist
ok let me try to expand upon this. first off, let me say this...

YOU SHOULD NEVER TRADE 1 LOT

this does not mean you should over trade. it means that if you are trading 1 lot you are doing something wrong because you should be moving to smaller increments (if you are trading 1 mini, you should be trading 10 micro so you get better "resolution").

if your account is 5k or less you should be on a micro account, 100k or less you should be on a mini account. this is to keep your position size flexible.

so your about to put on a trade, EURUSD short. you figure you need a 30 pip stoploss for the trade. your account is at 10k and you are risking 2% per trade. you would then do this calculation...

($10,000 x .02) / (30 x $1) = 6.66
what your willing to risk divided by what each lot will cost you if a loser = 6.66

where ...

$10,000 is your account balance
.02 is your risk per trade
30 is your stoploss in pips
$1 is your pip value on the EURUSD

...so you would trade 6 mini lots, or 66 micro lots if you want to get fancy.

dialist, can you venture a guess as to why you would go through all this trouble of sizing your trades? ill give you a hint, it has to do with holding something constant.
Relax and be happy.
  • #8
  • May 10, 2005 6:18am May 10, 2005 6:18am
As long as you trade the same percentage risk per trade, a pip is worth more for a system that use a smaller stop loss compared with a system using a larger one.
For example, for a system using a 30 pips stop loss, compared to a system that use a 60 pip stop loss, each pip will be worth the double. So, if you trade a system using really large stop loss, such as 100 pips, then you need make a lot more pips compared to a system using smaller stop loss.

Bjorn
  • #9
  • May 10, 2005 9:32am May 10, 2005 9:32am
Quoting merlin
If a full time trader has a dependable strategy, the proper mind and a tangible account managment plan, they are most likely successful. and successful traders dont know how many pips they make in a week, because the statistic is totally irrelevant to the performance of their portfolio.
Merlin,
I agree with you. However, to try and answer the question asked at the beginning of this post, I suggest we re-phrase it:

"how many pips per lot, pips per mini lot, pips per micro lot or pips per unit lot does a successful trader collect weekly."

This way, everyone can compare results.
Pipster
  • #10
  • May 10, 2005 11:08am May 10, 2005 11:08am
Quoting Pipster
Merlin,
I agree with you. However, to try and answer the question asked at the beginning of this post, I suggest we re-phrase it:

"how many pips per lot, pips per mini lot, pips per micro lot or pips per unit lot does a successful trader collect weekly."

This way, everyone can compare results.
Pipster
I believe your original post was understood to have asked the same question you are asking here. If you wish to adopt to the parlance of Merlin you may want to ask the following:

"assuming a constant risk per trade of 2% or less of equity, what rate of return on equity does a robust system achieve weekly"

Because each trader has different goals, each will have a different definition of success. Therefore, I have replaced your term "sucessful trader" with the term "robust system" in hopes of a straightforward response from Merlin.
  • #11
  • May 10, 2005 4:39pm May 10, 2005 4:39pm
Quoting mrhasel
"assuming a constant risk per trade of 2% or less of equity, what rate of return on equity does a robust system achieve weekly"
now theres a question worth discussing!!!

first of all, if you have a system that wins every week, i dont care how much it makes, its a winner. if it makes even 0.5% per week you will be rich in no time. if you dont believe me just do the math. as Einstein said, compound intrest is the 8th wonder of the world.

its more realistic to look at returns on a monthly basis. there are traders out there that achieve profits every month (some as many as 80 months in a row). my personal goal is to return 2-5% per month on the entire portfolio, risking 0.6% on each trade. sometimes i make 15% in a month, sometimes i break even. as long as i dont have a losing month i am happy. over a year, that level of performance will yeild incredible returns.

btw, with consistent 2-5% per month returns, you will double your money every year. and if you manage money for others with this system, you will be super rich in no time
Relax and be happy.
  • #12
  • May 10, 2005 11:06pm May 10, 2005 11:06pm
Well, one day when I open a real account again. I believe I will follow Merlin's advice. I'm still trying to figure it out, but by the time I do, I'll have my mini-account again. I think if I could yield 40 - 50 pips per week, on a part-time basis, that would be sufficient to keep me interested in the business.
  • #13
  • May 11, 2005 9:51am May 11, 2005 9:51am
Quoting merlin
ok let me try to expand upon this. first off, let me say this...

YOU SHOULD NEVER TRADE 1 LOT

this does not mean you should over trade. it means that if you are trading 1 lot you are doing something wrong because you should be moving to smaller increments (if you are trading 1 mini, you should be trading 10 micro so you get better "resolution").

if your account is 5k or less you should be on a micro account, 100k or less you should be on a mini account. this is to keep your position size flexible.

so your about to put on a trade, EURUSD short. you figure you need a 30 pip stoploss for the trade. your account is at 10k and you are risking 2% per trade. you would then do this calculation...

($10,000 x .02) / (30 x $1) = 6.66
what your willing to risk divided by what each lot will cost you if a loser = 6.66

where ...

$10,000 is your account balance
.02 is your risk per trade
30 is your stoploss in pips
$1 is your pip value on the EURUSD

...so you would trade 6 mini lots, or 66 micro lots if you want to get fancy.

dialist, can you venture a guess as to why you would go through all this trouble of sizing your trades? ill give you a hint, it has to do with holding something constant.
What are you holding constant? I always trade a single lot, 1%
  • #14
  • May 13, 2005 5:53pm May 13, 2005 5:53pm
Look if it works for you, that's what matters. That's one of the beauties of Forex.

As for me, i'm still a newbie so i have much to learn about proper money management. I would think though at first glance it's better to trade at $10/pip, depending of course on your account balance. Say you have a $3000 account and you wanna make an AVERAGE hundred dollars a day net income. Depending on which pair u trade of course, you're looking at around 10 pips per day, which is 200 pips per month, which i've been told is a well respected professional amount to average. Sometimes you'll make more, sometimes you'll make less. The point is that's what you average.

Ok now i know the logicians everywhere always point out the mathematics of this and invariably conclude that it must be highly improbable to even be able to average a 1 pip/day profit, based on the fact that at that rate you'd earn enough money in your lifetime to own the universe which as any sensible person knows is absurd and therefore most likely wouldn't couldn't shouldn't happen. I'm not going to debate this mind game...

All i know is that i myself have started trading a $300 micro account (lol, i know) for two days and so far i've closed seven winning trades and 1 losing trade. So yeah, that's where i'm at.
  • #15
  • May 13, 2005 7:31pm May 13, 2005 7:31pm
Quoting q827
Look if it works for you, that's what matters. That's one of the beauties of Forex.

As for me, i'm still a newbie so i have much to learn about proper money management. I would think though at first glance it's better to trade at $10/pip, depending of course on your account balance. Say you have a $3000 account and you wanna make an AVERAGE hundred dollars a day net income. Depending on which pair u trade of course, you're looking at around 10 pips per day, which is 200 pips per month, which i've been told is a well respected professional amount to average. Sometimes you'll make more, sometimes you'll make less. The point is that's what you average.

Ok now i know the logicians everywhere always point out the mathematics of this and invariably conclude that it must be highly improbable to even be able to average a 1 pip/day profit, based on the fact that at that rate you'd earn enough money in your lifetime to own the universe which as any sensible person knows is absurd and therefore most likely wouldn't couldn't shouldn't happen. I'm not going to debate this mind game...

All i know is that i myself have started trading a $300 micro account (lol, i know) for two days and so far i've closed seven winning trades and 1 losing trade. So yeah, that's where i'm at.
Good for you, I like to hear success stories. I would be happy averaging $100.00 per day!
  • #16
  • May 14, 2005 2:02am May 14, 2005 2:02am
Quoting merlin
ok let me try to expand upon this. first off, let me say this...

YOU SHOULD NEVER TRADE 1 LOT

this does not mean you should over trade. it means that if you are trading 1 lot you are doing something wrong because you should be moving to smaller increments (if you are trading 1 mini, you should be trading 10 micro so you get better "resolution").

if your account is 5k or less you should be on a micro account, 100k or less you should be on a mini account. this is to keep your position size flexible.

so your about to put on a trade, EURUSD short. you figure you need a 30 pip stoploss for the trade. your account is at 10k and you are risking 2% per trade. you would then do this calculation...

($10,000 x .02) / (30 x $1) = 6.66
what your willing to risk divided by what each lot will cost you if a loser = 6.66

where ...

$10,000 is your account balance
.02 is your risk per trade
30 is your stoploss in pips
$1 is your pip value on the EURUSD

...so you would trade 6 mini lots, or 66 micro lots if you want to get fancy.

dialist, can you venture a guess as to why you would go through all this trouble of sizing your trades? ill give you a hint, it has to do with holding something constant.
Thank you Merlin.

The answer, of course, is constant risk. I'm using exactly the mm strategy you outlined, only with 1% risk.

After combining your response with those of Bjorn & Erikcw (thanks guys), and thinking it about it at length, I'm beginning to see your point. I just need a little more time for it to sink in.

Again, thanks for everyone's reply.
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #17
  • May 14, 2005 3:47pm May 14, 2005 3:47pm
Quoting diallist
Thank you Merlin.

The answer, of course, is constant risk. I'm using exactly the mm strategy you outlined, only with 1% risk.

After combining your response with those of Bjorn & Erikcw (thanks guys), and thinking it about it at length, I'm beginning to see your point. I just need a little more time for it to sink in.

Again, thanks for everyone's reply.
youve got the game right, it just takes a while to sink in man, i know. i didnt understand the phrase "you should never trade 1 lot" until 2 years after i first heard it
Relax and be happy.
  • #18
  • May 14, 2005 9:38pm May 14, 2005 9:38pm
Quoting merlin
youve got the game right, it just takes a while to sink in man, i know. i didnt understand the phrase "you should never trade 1 lot" until 2 years after i first heard it
I still don't get it.
  • #19
  • May 18, 2005 2:15am May 18, 2005 2:15am
Quoting bluemonkey
I still don't get it.
give it a year LOL
Relax and be happy.
  • #20
  • Oct 25, 2007 5:09am Oct 25, 2007 5:09am
All traders new and old who do not understand this thread would do well to do nothing else until they do - when the really get it they will understand this is how the money is made - by controlling risk completely irrespective of the number of pips gained. A big smile will come on there face as the penny drops because this actually makes profit much easier to attain. This took me two years and $20,000 aud to finally figure out. Do not move on from this thread until you understand this is your access to success. Let me spell it out, if you are risking a mere 1% per trade and your risk reward on the trade is only a conservative 1:1 so that your return if the trade wins is also a paltry 1% then one winning trade per week. compounded, will give you a 100% per annum return. The target could be a modest and easily achievable 20 or 30 pips only. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of pips and chasing big pip targets actually increases you odds of losing, completely unnecesarily

Quoting merlin
ok let me try to expand upon this. first off, let me say this...

YOU SHOULD NEVER TRADE 1 LOT

this does not mean you should over trade. it means that if you are trading 1 lot you are doing something wrong because you should be moving to smaller increments (if you are trading 1 mini, you should be trading 10 micro so you get better "resolution").

if your account is 5k or less you should be on a micro account, 100k or less you should be on a mini account. this is to keep your position size flexible.

so your about to put on a trade, EURUSD short. you figure you need a 30 pip stoploss for the trade. your account is at 10k and you are risking 2% per trade. you would then do this calculation...

($10,000 x .02) / (30 x $1) = 6.66
what your willing to risk divided by what each lot will cost you if a loser = 6.66

where ...

$10,000 is your account balance
.02 is your risk per trade
30 is your stoploss in pips
$1 is your pip value on the EURUSD

...so you would trade 6 mini lots, or 66 micro lots if you want to get fancy.

dialist, can you venture a guess as to why you would go through all this trouble of sizing your trades? ill give you a hint, it has to do with holding something constant.
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