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greenspan still has excellent timing

  • #21
  • Sep 17, 2007 11:42am Sep 17, 2007 11:42am
Quoting merlin
well as fed chief he was paid something like 150K per year, his history shows that he isnt money hungary. but his publisher probably is! LOL

btw, i thought of another highlight... did anyone else hear greenspan say "mission accomplished" after being told that the sentate couldnt understand his "fed speak"? if i heard what i thought i heard, this is a stunning admission.
If so he's earned my respect. I just wish economists, analysts, weather forecasters and the like could come together and have a confession day where they all tell us that they were sorry, they didn't really mean to lie to us, but they had to because it was their job. Imagine when it is your job to (among other things) confuse people in order to scatter their speculative force in various directions during difficult times, thereby avoiding further crisis. Beautiful.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #22
  • Sep 17, 2007 11:47am Sep 17, 2007 11:47am
Quoting Plutonite
Imagine when it is your job to (among other things) confuse people in order to scatter their speculative force in various directions during difficult times, thereby avoiding further crisis. Beautiful.
wow, well said.
Relax and be happy.
  • #23
  • Sep 17, 2007 11:49am Sep 17, 2007 11:49am
btw, this CNBC interview tonight should be even better. you know maria is going to be digging DEEP about financial matters, she's a pitbull.
Relax and be happy.
  • #24
  • Sep 17, 2007 12:50pm Sep 17, 2007 12:50pm
Quoting merlin
wow, well said.
Thanks merlin. I'll be tuned in for that interview for sure. Tonight is going to be a hot, hot night - with cold temp otherwise, it's 55 degrees F last night here in DC!
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #25
  • Sep 17, 2007 1:08pm Sep 17, 2007 1:08pm
Merlin, I swear I've never seen you post so much in one thread before... are you a Greenspan groupie? LOL...or perhaps, a Greenspam groupie? ROFL...
Mr. Trend
  • #26
  • Sep 17, 2007 2:14pm Sep 17, 2007 2:14pm
The re-emergence of inflation? Where the f**k has that guy been? The official measure of inflation is BS. Core inflation doesn't account for food or fuel prices. The two things that indicate inflation the most in the real world! Gas prices are high and only going to get higher now that oil is breaking the $80 per barrel barrier. Higher fuel costs lead to higher priced everything especially food. Look at the price of a gallon of milk compared to 5 years ago. Don't even ask me about a box of cereal.

But here's food for thought. The US is up to its eyeballs in debt. Inflation devalues debt. Sort of paying debt with more debt. Lowering the rates this week goes along way to meet that measure. Officially, policy makers say inflation is a bad thing, but off the record, they sigh a breath of relief when they look at how a crashing dollar lowers the debt to the likes of China. Let's just pull out that last credit card to pay towards the rest and deal with the consequences later, eh? I'm looking for the quote, but some govt' official was saying that once war with Iran gets underway, people won't notice inflation.

Lowering the rates are supposed to help the markets keep from crashing? That's going to happen anyway. One more finger in the dam isn't going to do any good in the long run.

I think Greenspan's referring to "global things" should unite the conspiracy theorists. I mean, substitute "globalize" every time the guy says global and it paints a different story.
  • #27
  • Sep 17, 2007 2:26pm Sep 17, 2007 2:26pm
Quoting JR97
The re-emergence of inflation? Where the f**k has that guy been? The official measure of inflation is BS. Core inflation doesn't account for food or fuel prices. The two things that indicate inflation the most in the real world! Gas prices are high and only going to get higher now that oil is breaking the $80 per barrel barrier. Higher fuel costs lead to higher priced everything especially food. Look at the price of a gallon of milk compared to 5 years ago. Don't even ask me about a box of cereal.

But here's food for thought. The US is up to its eyeballs in debt. Inflation devalues debt. Sort of paying debt with more debt. Lowering the rates this week goes along way to meet that measure. Officially, policy makers say inflation is a bad thing, but off the record, they sigh a breath of relief when they look at how a crashing dollar lowers the debt to the likes of China. Let's just pull out that last credit card to pay towards the rest and deal with the consequences later, eh? I'm looking for the quote, but some govt' official was saying that once war with Iran gets underway, people won't notice inflation.

Lowering the rates are supposed to help the markets keep from crashing? That's going to happen anyway. One more finger in the dam isn't going to do any good in the long run.

I think Greenspan's referring to "global things" should unite the conspiracy theorists. I mean, substitute "globalize" every time the guy says global and it paints a different story.
I have no idea what you just said but anyone that swears and gets passionate about something they believe in is pretty cool in my book.
  • #28
  • Sep 17, 2007 2:34pm Sep 17, 2007 2:34pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I have no idea what you just said but anyone that swears and gets passionate about something they believe in is pretty cool in my book.
LOL. Basically, I type a lot but didn't say much.

I used to be a fan of Greenspan until I woke up and realized the repercussions of the FED. He gets most of the flak, but he's just the face.
  • #29
  • Sep 17, 2007 8:32pm Sep 17, 2007 8:32pm
Quoting Mr Trend
Merlin, I swear I've never seen you post so much in one thread before... are you a Greenspan groupie?
look at my profile picture (trying to help him out with book sales)

seriously though, greenspan is one of my idols. guys like him, jp morgan, alexander hamilton, i have such admiration for these great financial figures. mabe its the super-capitalist in me
Relax and be happy.
  • #30
  • Sep 17, 2007 8:38pm Sep 17, 2007 8:38pm
Quoting JR97
I used to be a fan of Greenspan until I woke up and realized the repercussions of the FED. He gets most of the flak, but he's just the face.
not to defend the fed here, but why does there have to be someone to blame? doesnt everyone know that things can go horribly wrong without anyone being at fault? seems like the media's job is to find where to point the finger, yet problems occur so naturally that there is hardly ever a single source that the problem can be attributed to. this credit crunch, for instance, in such a complex and diverse situation, which is influenced by hundreds of thousands of people, how can we possible be smart enough to find the source of the problem?? i look at such issues simply as natural cycles of human nature, and then of course i think of how to profit from it
Relax and be happy.
  • #31
  • Sep 17, 2007 8:47pm Sep 17, 2007 8:47pm
Quoting merlin
not to defend the fed here, but why does there have to be someone to blame? doesnt everyone know that things can go horribly wrong without anyone being at fault? seems like the media's job is to find where to point the finger, yet problems occur so naturally that there is hardly ever a single source that the problem can be attributed to. this credit crunch, for instance, in such a complex and diverse situation, which is influenced by hundreds of thousands of people, how can we possible be smart enough to find the source of the problem?? i look at such things as natural cycles of human nature, and then of course i try to think of how i can profit from it
I agree. The problem is stupid human nature. I'm all for blaming the govmint and all, but really, taking down interest rates by .5% is not going to solve your financial life's misery. If you can't take out a loan without wrecking your life, then don't. The problem with Americans is that we sadly don't think things ahead very well, just because sometimes we don't want to. Why is it so hard to live with all that we have? We have money, credit, public transportation, a varied economic and geographic setting with matching real estate pricings... There are kids in sudan who are risking their *lives* to get a drink of water every day, but we can't be bothered to maintain good credit and live a decent worry-free life? Don't blame greenspan - blame yourselves.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #32
  • Edited 10:52pm Sep 17, 2007 9:00pm | Edited 10:52pm
Quoting merlin
not to defend the fed here, but why does there have to be someone to blame? doesnt everyone know that things can go horribly wrong without anyone being at fault? seems like the media's job is to find where to point the finger, yet problems occur so naturally that there is hardly ever a single source that the problem can be attributed to. this credit crunch, for instance, in such a complex and diverse situation, which is influenced by hundreds of thousands of people, how can we possible be smart enough to find the source of the problem?? i look at such issues simply as natural cycles of human nature, and then of course i think of how to profit from it
Right. Everything from the New Deal to the Fair Deal To the New Frontier to the Great Society were intended to improve the economy and quality of life. All served us well enough, but none created perfection and none will. Our economy will always be a balancing act, and always in flux. Every corrective measure or improvement causes consequences that may have to be dealt with, now or later. Like weeding and fertilizing a garden--it's never done.
  • #33
  • Sep 17, 2007 9:21pm Sep 17, 2007 9:21pm
Quoting Plutonite
I agree. The problem is stupid human nature. I'm all for blaming the govmint and all, but really, taking down interest rates by .5% is not going to solve your financial life's misery. If you can't take out a loan without wrecking your life, then don't. The problem with Americans is that we sadly don't think things ahead very well, just because sometimes we don't want to. Why is it so hard to live with all that we have? We have money, credit, public transportation, a varied economic and geographic setting with matching real estate pricings... There are kids in sudan who are risking their *lives* to get a drink of water every day, but we can't be bothered to maintain good credit and live a decent worry-free life? Don't blame greenspan - blame yourselves.
What? Take responsibility for our own actions? Take stock of what we have just by living here as compared to most other countries?
Just kidding of course. Your points are valid.
We have a generation growing up amidst easy credit and us older folks haven't taught them that there has to be a day of reckoning. And if us older folks got caught up in it, then shame on us.
I 'd like to see every high school grad know how to balance a check book and run a household budget. Without a calculator.
  • #34
  • Sep 17, 2007 11:19pm Sep 17, 2007 11:19pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I have no idea what you just said but anyone that swears and gets passionate about something they believe in is pretty cool in my book.
Priceless comment Phil.
  • #35
  • Sep 18, 2007 7:54am Sep 18, 2007 7:54am
Quoting merlin
not to defend the fed here, but why does there have to be someone to blame? doesnt everyone know that things can go horribly wrong without anyone being at fault? seems like the media's job is to find where to point the finger, yet problems occur so naturally that there is hardly ever a single source that the problem can be attributed to. this credit crunch, for instance, in such a complex and diverse situation, which is influenced by hundreds of thousands of people, how can we possible be smart enough to find the source of the problem?? i look at such issues simply as natural cycles of human nature, and then of course i think of how to profit from it
Who said anything about blaming it all on the FED or media? I'm with the others who say the responsibility lies with the individual. The couple of billion individuals that make up this great country. And as far as the media is concerned, I don't think they do enough finger pointing. At least when something can be done about it and not when it's late.

However, when the forbidden fruit gets laid out on the table dressed to thrill at no money down interest only payments regardless of credit, there has to be some sort of accountability to the pimps as well.

If the people aren't smart enough to find the source of the problem then maybe the people aren't smart enough to be left with credit power if they can't see the repercussions of gullible spending and irresponsible lending. You'd at least hope those pushing cheap credit and not regulating lending were smart enough, but apparently that's not the case either. When was the last time you heard an ad telling people that borrowing with not little or no money down could be a dangerous thing? Quite the opposite. It's like they were giving away free money no strings attached other than some fine print about ARM's that could go up.

And you are spot on about the cycles of human nature. These same cycles that go on to become socio economic cycles. Throughout history capitalism has lead to socialism and back again. But what most nations and empires of history took many centuries to do, the US has done in just over 200 years.
  • #36
  • Edited 2:08am Sep 19, 2007 1:52am | Edited 2:08am
So I was watching Greenspan's interview on Mcneil Lehrer last night and I was a bit surprised that Greenspan said his number one concern was fraud.
He seemed to think that the sub prime problems are largely due to fraud on the part of various institutions.
  • #37
  • Sep 19, 2007 7:50am Sep 19, 2007 7:50am
Quoting smjones
So I was watching Greenspan's interview on Mcneil Lehrer last night and I was a bit surprised that Greenspan said his number one concern was fraud.
He seemed to think that the sub prime problems are largely due to fraud on the part of various institutions.
I've watched most of his appearances but I missed that part. Was he referring to the way idividual mortgages are handled by the finance companies? There's been much written about what's been dubbed liar loans. Abuse is rampant enough with No Doc loans, but finance companies have taken things a step further by altering individual loan applications, often without the applicant even knowing it. So even the easy credit loans have been made easier and a lot of the recipients haven't got a hope of repaying them. And they are borrowing the down payment and closing costs and some extra cash besides. They'll never have a nickel of equity, so there is no hope of repaying the loan simply by selling. Foreclosure is the only way out and the number of them is huge.
I blame the banks and their reckless lending methods. And of course the people who knowingly overborrowed.
  • #38
  • Sep 19, 2007 8:02am Sep 19, 2007 8:02am
Yes, here is a bit of the interview

JIM LEHRER: But then their interest rates went up over a period of time. That's when they got hurt, right?

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, the real problem began because a very significant proportion of those loans were on terms which shouldn't have been made. In many cases, I think it was fraud and that, I say in the book, as you know, the only area where I think more regulation is required in this country is addressing fraud, because fraud is destructive of markets, but more importantly it's destructive of families.

Here is the entire interview
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/busin...pan_09-18.html
  • #39
  • Sep 19, 2007 8:40am Sep 19, 2007 8:40am
Quoting smjones
Yes, here is a bit of the interview

JIM LEHRER: But then their interest rates went up over a period of time. That's when they got hurt, right?

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, the real problem began because a very significant proportion of those loans were on terms which shouldn't have been made. In many cases, I think it was fraud and that, I say in the book, as you know, the only area where I think more regulation is required in this country is addressing fraud, because fraud is destructive of markets, but more importantly it's destructive of families.

Here is the entire interview
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/busin...pan_09-18.html
Excellent! Fraud has become a huge part of the equation and because the extent is difficult to measure, all the models and equations break down.
I bought the book but haven't had time to get into it yet.
  • #40
  • Sep 19, 2007 8:44am Sep 19, 2007 8:44am
Here's his interview on The Daily Show. The guy actually has a sense of humor.
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