What's next if you had a profitable EA? | Forex Factory

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What's next if you had a profitable EA?

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 6, 2006 8:55am Dec 6, 2006 8:55am
Hey guys, I'm just wondering what to do next if you had a profitable EA? it uses MM, so it will aparently grow slowly at the beginning if you don't found big money.

What would you do with the EA?

a) Find partner with money?
b) Go to bank?
c) Venture capital?


then what next? Is there any invester using metatrader 4 to trade live over 10,000,000 ?
  • #2
  • Dec 6, 2006 9:03am Dec 6, 2006 9:03am
Quoting hastings
Hey guys, I'm just wondering what to do next if you had a profitable EA? it uses MM, so it will aparently grow slowly at the beginning if you don't found big money.

What would you do with the EA?

a) Find partner with money?
b) Go to bank?
c) Venture capital?


then what next? Is there any invester using metatrader 4 to trade live over 10,000,000 ?
Share it ?
  • #3
  • Dec 6, 2006 9:09am Dec 6, 2006 9:09am
hastings,

The first thing to do is to make sure that the EA can be traded live. It's a little known fact in this market that brokers can distinguish between EA's trading and manual trades. They can further distinguish between EA's that are successful and those that are not. Then, they can do little things to cause those EA's to not perform as well.

So, I'd get a couple hundred dollars together, throw it into an IBFX or other micro account and then see how it does before going big. If it's an EA that works on large timeframes, then, you're probably good to go.

Regards,

stockwet

Quoting hastings
Hey guys, I'm just wondering what to do next if you had a profitable EA? it uses MM, so it will aparently grow slowly at the beginning if you don't found big money.

What would you do with the EA?

a) Find partner with money?
b) Go to bank?
c) Venture capital?


then what next? Is there any invester using metatrader 4 to trade live over 10,000,000 ?
  • #4
  • Dec 6, 2006 9:36am Dec 6, 2006 9:36am
I'd recommend trading it on a real money account for at least a month as well, but FXDD has consistent spreads while IBFX Ask-Bid values range between 2-9 often.

You can do a few things to raise more funds to trade with:

#1 sell it on ebay. Hard to tell scammers from real accounts though.
#2 Sell hosted service (I'm currently creating a beta for hosted EA) and use the hosted service to help establish credibility (no edited statements, etc)
#3 Become an reseller for the hosted service, open an introducing broker account and let people trade the EA in exchange for use at the hosted EA. You profit from the trades that other people make, and if you choose to bill a monthly fee to cover the EA hosting or as profit, from the monthly fees as well.

If the EA is actually good, then you profit several ways. If it is active and good, then you will have a growing income from lots traded. Once you are well established with atleast 3 months of profit, then you can easily charge a few hundred up front for the hosted EA.

The advantage of a hosted EA is that only the hosting company has the EA files in any whatsoever. The clients get the benefit of the EA while retaining control over their account. The EA author has security and can charge monthly, one time, IB fees, etc. If you ask someone to sign up with you as an IB in exchange for emailing the EA, they can avoid trading the account you don't earn money, but they walk off with your EA (possibly reselling it).

As an EA hosting provider, I'm also interested in offering a package of profitable EA to trade with. If you have several months of profitable trades from live testing, then your EA would be eligible for promotion and partnership. You must own the copyright or redistribution rights for any partnership service. If the performance matches one of the dozens of freely available EA in testing then we would have questions.
  • #5
  • Dec 6, 2006 10:10am Dec 6, 2006 10:10am
If I had a successful EA, I would trade it.
  • #6
  • Dec 6, 2006 10:42am Dec 6, 2006 10:42am
Quoting twinchell
If I had a successful EA, I would trade it.
Serious Money Management and Position Sizing requires a large $ amount in your account. So your account size growes very slowly. Hastings asked were he get enough money to abbreviate this long way.

Maybe it is possible to found some kind of "investment fund" !?
  • #7
  • Dec 6, 2006 10:46am Dec 6, 2006 10:46am
Quoting Dave188
Serious Money Management and Position Sizing requires a large $ amount in your account. So your account size growes very slowly. Hastings asked were he get enough money to abbreviate this long way.
I guess I don't understand why people arn't happy with growing their account slowly. Maybe you should play the lottery with your small gains.
  • #8
  • Dec 6, 2006 11:27am Dec 6, 2006 11:27am
Quoting twinchell
I guess I don't understand why people arn't happy with growing their account slowly. Maybe you should play the lottery with your small gains.
I did hear of a broker that let you trade in pennies. I can look it up if anyone is interested. The main issue with the mentality of "let it grow slow" is some people have good EA, but don't have the $1000 to open a good mini account. This is especially hard for people who don't live in the first world countries.

One idea I had a while back for starting off was open an account with $250 and enter on a winning trade, near maximum leverage. If the trade hits moderate profit, close it at first sign of reverse. If you make $500 from this, then run your EA. It is essentially gambling, but if you have a decent entry system the odds are in your favor. Since EA do sell for $200-500 on Ebay, that is lower risk (Ebay posting fee) and similar payoff.
  • #9
  • Dec 7, 2006 2:06pm Dec 7, 2006 2:06pm
Quoting stockwet
hastings,

The first thing to do is to make sure that the EA can be traded live. It's a little known fact in this market that brokers can distinguish between EA's trading and manual trades. They can further distinguish between EA's that are successful and those that are not. Then, they can do little things to cause those EA's to not perform as well.
Regards,
stockwet
stockwet,
I figured with a lot of EAs putting the same exact comment in the comment feild, that you could possabably track what EA entered the order, and I guess with a magic# they could track that as well. Any ideas what we can do to hide our EAs, so that they would be harder to tell apart from a manual trade. What else can they track??
Rusty
  • #10
  • Dec 7, 2006 2:32pm Dec 7, 2006 2:32pm
If I had a profitable EA (and I mean proven. not many of those), I would sit back and let the good times roll.

Did that once with an EA for 3-4 months that gave me fantastic profits.
Up over 300% at one point. That didn't continue for much longer lets say....
  • #11
  • Dec 7, 2006 3:04pm Dec 7, 2006 3:04pm
I have written a set of successful EAs that really make money. I strated trading them about two months ago and also shared them with others at FF for FREE. So now there are a group of people who are either trading them live or forward testing them.

My next step would be to build a new set of profitable EAs - the project is at test phase - and then when they're final I'll trade them along with my old EAs and most probably sell signals for FREE....and by selling signals for free I mean that everybody who signs up with my selected broker and trades with them live will receive the signals for FREE. The broker will not increase the spread but pays me commission.

With this approach I can increase my source of income and get rid of my current full time job. I might also sell signals for a nominal fee per month for those who are not going to sign up with my broker but wish to receive them to trade with other brokers.
  • #12
  • Dec 7, 2006 3:56pm Dec 7, 2006 3:56pm
Get another EA.

The more EA's you have which aren't dependant on the same market action, and trade at different times, the smoother your equity curve will be.
In trading you are only as smart as your dumbest mistake. - Ralph Vince
  • #13
  • Dec 7, 2006 4:07pm Dec 7, 2006 4:07pm
I think what he means is that they know because you use all those Order*() functions. Or maybe they just communicate something with the server that an EA is running? who knows. I've always just assumed that they know when you are running an EA... I mean if you wrote the program, wouldn't you make it that way?

The comment would just help them know what EA it is.

Quoting rusty105
stockwet,
I figured with a lot of EAs putting the same exact comment in the comment feild, that you could possabably track what EA entered the order, and I guess with a magic# they could track that as well. Any ideas what we can do to hide our EAs, so that they would be harder to tell apart from a manual trade. What else can they track??
Rusty
  • #14
  • Dec 7, 2006 4:12pm Dec 7, 2006 4:12pm
you mean like this? (j/k)

Quoting SliverB
Get another EA.

The more EA's you have which aren't dependant on the same market action, and trade at different times, the smoother your equity curve will be.
Attached Image
  • #15
  • Dec 7, 2006 8:25pm Dec 7, 2006 8:25pm
Quoting hastings
Hey guys, I'm just wondering what to do next if you had a profitable EA? it uses MM, so it will aparently grow slowly at the beginning if you don't found big money.

What would you do with the EA?

a) Find partner with money?
b) Go to bank?
c) Venture capital?


then what next? Is there any invester using metatrader 4 to trade live over 10,000,000 ?



I would post a journal here with live time trading and trade the EA here so everyone can see your results (but not your method).

You must state each trade as you trade it, or alternatively, state your trades in advance. There must be NO "past the post" trades

If it successful, people will contact you.
  • #16
  • Dec 7, 2006 9:45pm Dec 7, 2006 9:45pm
Quoting jacko
I would post a journal here with live time trading and trade the EA here so everyone can see your results (but not your method).

You must state each trade as you trade it, or alternatively, state your trades in advance. There must be NO "past the post" trades

If it successful, people will contact you.

Look out hastings,

Jacko is one very wealthy dude.
I have actually contacted him. He is a very serious and big trader.

Newbietrader101
  • #17
  • Dec 8, 2006 12:04am Dec 8, 2006 12:04am
Quoting stockwet
hastings,

The first thing to do is to make sure that the EA can be traded live. It's a little known fact in this market that brokers can distinguish between EA's trading and manual trades. They can further distinguish between EA's that are successful and those that are not. Then, they can do little things to cause those EA's to not perform as well.

So, I'd get a couple hundred dollars together, throw it into an IBFX or other micro account and then see how it does before going big. If it's an EA that works on large timeframes, then, you're probably good to go.

Regards,

stockwet
This is true, but when you get to the real big boys (and I mean the banks themselves for instance), they'll encourage your EA to work properly since they're getting something out of it as well since they're no bucket shops. At this point, you find accounts tailored to automated trading that require deposits of at least $50k USD and a monthly turnover of something like at least 100 million units of currency (for reference, a standard lot is only 100,000 units of currency). Of course, the trick is getting to being able to fund this account...
  • #18
  • Dec 8, 2006 5:39am Dec 8, 2006 5:39am
Quoting Skyhook
This is true, but when you get to the real big boys (and I mean the banks themselves for instance), they'll encourage your EA to work properly since they're getting something out of it as well since they're no bucket shops. At this point, you find accounts tailored to automated trading that require deposits of at least $50k USD and a monthly turnover of something like at least 100 million units of currency (for reference, a standard lot is only 100,000 units of currency). Of course, the trick is getting to being able to fund this account...
Which banks allow you to run EAs?
  • #19
  • Dec 8, 2006 10:50am Dec 8, 2006 10:50am
Quoting ycomp
Which banks allow you to run EAs?
I'm fairly certain UBS has this kind of setup. I know Dukascopy has these kind of accounts. I know Wachovia does this sort of thing (they just never say anything about it). I've heard that Forex.com lets you build an API system as well.

This is one of those things that you would never know was there unless you asked for it specifically. This is the cool stuff that is done with an entire blade server in a data center at your disposal instead of letting MT4 wax poetic from your home pc. This is when you get those really cool custom built applications. This is the realm of custom work akin to the idea that when you buy a Bentley, for instance, they tailor the car for you instead of you just having to accepting a Camry for what it is.
  • #20
  • Dec 8, 2006 11:05am Dec 8, 2006 11:05am
just to be clear, you mean they let you run MT4 Expert Advisors? or do you mean they just have APIs you can hook up to?

Quoting Skyhook
I'm fairly certain UBS has this kind of setup. I know Dukascopy has these kind of accounts. I know Wachovia does this sort of thing (they just never say anything about it). I've heard that Forex.com lets you build an API system as well.

This is one of those things that you would never know was there unless you asked for it specifically. This is the cool stuff that is done with an entire blade server in a data center at your disposal instead of letting MT4 wax poetic from your home pc. This is when you get those really cool custom built applications. This is the realm of custom work akin to the idea that when you buy a Bentley, for instance, they tailor the car for you instead of you just having to accepting a Camry for what it is.
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