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Swap arbitrage between different brokers

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 29, 2024 9:24am Dec 29, 2024 9:24am
Does anyone have experience with swap arbitrage?

I can give a quick example.

Ic markets currently pays +62,13usd Per Lot in Swap fees for short Positions on XBR/USD (Brent crude oil).
Now the goal is to look for a counter part, a diffrent brokerage or a different financial instrument where you can buy the same unit (long).
The value of the position would be hedged between 2x brokerages. But you receive and gain more swaps on one brokerage which in theory creates a risk free profit.

I would like to discuss this and build ideas.

diffrent brokerages have diffrent swap rates. The goal is to find 2x diffrent ones where one instrument can be hedged between 2x accounts with diffrent brokerages and collect swap fees while the position value is locked in a hedge.
This doesnt go against guidelines. you dont abuse a single brokerage. You just have 1x open position in one brokerage and the same counter position on a different brokerage, the goal is to gain swaps while the position is hedged
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  • #2
  • Dec 29, 2024 9:35am Dec 29, 2024 9:35am
So Lets say you receive 62,13usd per trading day from a 1xlot short position on IC Markets, but you pay -6usd per 1xlot long on roboforex.

You are 1lot short in one brokerage and one lot Long in a diffrent brokerage. The position it self is hedged. You collect the difference in swaps.
You can either let both positions run for weeks and months or close the positions every day after receiving swap fees and open new ones again.

This can maybe also be done with indicies and dividents. Some brokerages pay Dividents for holding Long indicies or collect them from your balance for shorting indicies.
The goal would be to find a brokerage which dont have them or a diffrent financial product where just the price is tradet without dividents. Then you can hedge and collect from one instrument that pays dividents and hedge agaist a different instrument where just the price is tradet without rollover fees or dividents
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  • #3
  • Dec 30, 2024 4:43pm Dec 30, 2024 4:43pm
Search FF for Swapmaster. There was a commercial system for this a few years ago
We are all One. Be present. Be the Observer
  • #4
  • Dec 31, 2024 8:47am Dec 31, 2024 8:47am
Quoting Iamfx
Search FF for Swapmaster. There was a commercial system for this a few years ago
Thanks, do you have any experience with it? And whats your opinnion about it?

Im currently manually testing it on demo.

It can make sense, specially if you sign up with a cashback provider and receive about 5-10$ per lot on top per closed trade.

Would make sense through the weekend when markets are closed but tripple swaps are paid.

Volume can be increased since there is less market risk
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  • #5
  • Dec 31, 2024 8:56am Dec 31, 2024 8:56am
Quoting Thomas.
{quote} Thanks, do you have any experience with it? And whats your opinnion about it? Im currently manually testing it on demo. It can make sense, specially if you sign up with a cashback provider and receive about 5-10$ per lot on top per closed trade. Would make sense through the weekend when markets are closed but tripple swaps are paid. Volume can be increased since there is less market risk
that makes often not a lot of sense.
different swaps happen only most oft time because misprice and broker dont care, because they are pure marketmaker broker.
broker has always option to say this was misprice you was using replace it with real market swaps.

sure, with low values often they dont care.... but they are not stupid, they see that you open a trade only in this currencies with wrong priced swaps and the business from market maker is living from that you trade often and they earn spread and commission..... so you are not generating any profit.
so it will depends here on 1 big thing: when the market maker broker gets bigger minus in his trade with you, he will not allow to do it long time or even correct the swap.
when you are in minus in this trade he will allow it. when your other hedge broker with minus is normal broker and normal swaps you get fine.

you understand the fundamental problem?
  • #6
  • Dec 31, 2024 9:13am Dec 31, 2024 9:13am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} that makes often not a lot of sense. different swaps happen only most oft time because misprice and broker dont care, because they are pure marketmaker broker. broker has always option to say this was misprice you was using replace it with real market swaps. sure, with low values often they dont care.... but they are not stupid, they see that you open a trade only in this currencies with wrong priced swaps and the business from market maker is living from that you trade often and they earn spread and commission..... so you are not generating...

Youre saying the swaps are priced wrong in the first place? I dont think so, its the brokers business.

Second point is, it doesnt even matter if you lose or winn with a single brokerage. Lets say i short 1lot at IC Markets on EUR/PLN, then i Buy 1xlot EUR/PLN at octafx. It doesnt matter when i lose -1.300€ at IC Markets since i will be uo +1.300€ on octafx. The point is my hedge increases in value from the swaps i gain. In this point apperantly +31$ a day. Thats what im trying to figgure out. Its not against gueidlines to hold one trade in one brokerage, who knows or cares that i hedge with a different brokerage?

Ofcouse i start negative with the spread cost. But after 2-3x days the spread is covered with swaps and from there its profit. The hedge turns profitable 20-30$ a day.
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  • #7
  • Edited 9:40am Dec 31, 2024 9:26am | Edited 9:40am
Instead of hedging with a different CFD brokerage i was also thinking about hedging with futures contracts. They dont have swaps or durations costs.

So you receive swaps from a CFD brokerage, you pick the instrument with the most swaps and least volatility and then hedge it with a futures contracts, you just have to watch the expiration every 2-3x months

If anyone is interestead lets just collect ideas together or discuss where or why it could fail. Maybe the same principle can be done with dividents, stocks or indicies.
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  • #8
  • Dec 31, 2024 10:01am Dec 31, 2024 10:01am
Quoting Thomas.
{quote} Youre saying the swaps are priced wrong in the first place? I dont think so, its the brokers business. Second point is, it doesnt even matter if you lose or winn with a single brokerage. Lets say i short 1lot at IC Markets on EUR/PLN, then i Buy 1xlot EUR/PLN at octafx. It doesnt matter when i lose -1.300€ at IC Markets since i will be uo +1.300€ on octafx. The point is my hedge increases in value from the swaps i gain. In this point apperantly +31$ a day. Thats what im trying to figgure out. Its not against gueidlines to hold one trade...
you have not understand the smallest what i did say you. sorry, but i have no time to help you in this moment, its new years eve near.

start learning about business models of brokers...

i wrote about total different parts you did mention.... reread please until you understand... will be important for your way to get a trader some day.
  • #9
  • Dec 31, 2024 10:29am Dec 31, 2024 10:29am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} you have not understand the smallest what i did say you. sorry, but i have no time to help you in this moment, its new years eve near. start learning about business models of brokers... i wrote about total different parts you did mention.... reread please until you understand... will be important for your way to get a trader some day.
It wasent helpfull or valubale, just a lot of nonsens and you surely dont even understand where swaps come from. Look swaps up befor writing something you dont understand. Who mentioned anything from "Market maker brokers" as you call it.

Swaps are Interest Rate Differential during rollover, Thats why you can be credited or charged based on which direction and interest rate differential. Dont waist everyones time with your market maker nonsense, it doesnt help anyone.

I appreciate you trying to help. But next time dont help if your have no knowledge in that field.
1k to 100k Copy Trading All Time Return: 367.9%
  • #10
  • Dec 31, 2024 10:41am Dec 31, 2024 10:41am
Quoting Thomas.
{quote} It wasent helpfull or valubale, just a lot of nonsens and you surely dont even understand where swaps come from. Look swaps up befor writing something you dont understand. Who mentioned anything from "Market maker brokers" as you call it. Swaps are Interest Rate Differential during rollover, Thats why you can be credited or charged based on which direction and interest rate differential. Dont waist everyones time with your market maker nonsense, it doesnt help anyone. I appreciate you trying to help. But next time dont help if your have...

i see that you are newer in trading with some parts and still trade very small 10.000 euro accounts so maybe a deeper knowledge was never necessary to learn for you, so i will help you later to understand the basics of swap.

enjoy the celebration day today.
you also speak german, so more easy to teach you in german because its my mother language too.
  • #11
  • Dec 31, 2024 11:23am Dec 31, 2024 11:23am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} i see that you are newer in trading with some parts and still trade very small 10.000 euro accounts so maybe a deeper knowledge was never necessary to learn for you, so i will help you later to understand the basics of swap. enjoy the celebration day today. you also speak german, so more easy to teach you in german because its my mother language too.
if you found my Trading accounts, then you know im not newer to trading and it was 10.000€ 3x years ago.

Ofcouse we can talk in private later some times. But not about Swaps or Market maker brokers.

Have a nice day and enjoy the celebrations.
1k to 100k Copy Trading All Time Return: 367.9%
  • #12
  • Edited 1:42pm Dec 31, 2024 12:54pm | Edited 1:42pm
Quoting Thomas.
{quote} if you found my Trading accounts, then you know im not newer to trading and it was 10.000€ 3x years ago. Ofcouse we can talk in private later some times. But not about Swaps or Market maker brokers. Have a nice day and enjoy the celebrations.
i did not check how new you are (so how long you do it as hobby), only that you do it very small and so as hobby.

sure, we can do and write in PM, but about swaps you dont know a lot, you should try to inform about basics, helps you some day to more profits... information are king in this business.
  • #13
  • Dec 31, 2024 1:56pm Dec 31, 2024 1:56pm
Quoting Trader191
{quote} i did not check how new you are (so how long you do it as hpbby), only that you do it very small and so as hobby. sure, we can do and write in PM, but about swaps you dont know a lot, you should try to inform about basics, helps you some day to more profits... information are king in this business.

You are the one saying it wont work becouse some "market maker brokers" and them making up swaps or taking it back when you winn.

Thats literaly what you wrote. youre the one saying they are mispriced in diffrent brokers, thats not true. So how are you gonna claim you have knowledge in that field? Different brokers have different swap rates becouse of things like: Access to Interbank Rates, Liquidity and Market Conditions (Exposure) or the Broker's own Markup.
YOURE claim is its diffrent becouse its "mispriced and brokers dont care", Read your own message back and try to tell me thats not a incompetent statement!

So dont tell me that you know something or that you can teach me. I was the one having to point out to you that swaps are Interest Rate Differential during rollover callculates in standart lot (100.000usd).

Im going to say it again, stop waisting time, stop trying to look smart claiming to teach and show me. Look back at your own statments, its incompetent and wrong.

If you have something to teach or show, then just post it here. If not then just stop spreading useless statements.

And ofcourse you checked my account out, how else would you know i had 10.000€ balance 3x years ago? your lies are pathetic

If your next message isent related to this topic of swap arbitrage i will block you! If you cant add value, then dont post.
1k to 100k Copy Trading All Time Return: 367.9%
  • #14
  • Dec 31, 2024 3:19pm Dec 31, 2024 3:19pm
Quoting Thomas.
{quote} You are the one saying it wont work becouse some "market maker brokers" and them making up swaps or taking it back when you winn. Thats literaly what you wrote. youre the one saying they are mispriced in diffrent brokers, thats not true. So how are you gonna claim you have knowledge in that field? Different brokers have different swap rates becouse of things like: Access to Interbank Rates, Liquidity and Market Conditions (Exposure) or the Broker's own Markup. YOURE claim is its diffrent becouse its "mispriced and brokers dont care", Read...
you know already some basics, but miss some too. thats the problem here, its only partially true. you really should learn full basic, more easy in trading.

when you react in trading always like this, its normal that you still after so many years trade so small accounts and never step up and believe in your strategies, knowledge helps and you really block yourself form learning just to be right for yourself. you dont even listen.

fine for me, was your decision.

by the way: all was related to swap arbitrage, unbelievable you cant see it. sometimes long trading dont help you to be new in some basic topis. and arrogance block you to learn the rest. good example for new traders what to avoid when you not endless want to be at smaller hobby level, you should really ask yourself what else you dont know from basics when i see what you write here.

helping new traders is ok, helping arrogant traders who think they know all better is an other thing (at your lower level at the moment even total worthless, you could not even see that you dont know some basics). stay at your level and feel like you are good is maybe best for you, looks like you dont trade to earn money, just as little hobby .... so your behavior should not harm you to much.
  • #15
  • Feb 8, 2025 3:18pm Feb 8, 2025 3:18pm
Quoting Trader191
{quote} you know already some basics, but miss some too. thats the problem here, its only partially true. you really should learn full basic, more easy in trading.
First of all...Im new in the Arbitrage game (since 4 months).
I found an Overnight Swap Arbitrage possibility on my own and made a couple thousand until my Broker kicked me out ;D
Since then Im into Swap and Hedge Arbitrage.
Trader191, can you explain to me, what Thomas is missing out about the Swap Basics?
In german pls
  • #16
  • Jun 26, 2025 9:51pm Jun 26, 2025 9:51pm
Quoting HedgePhantom
{quote} First of all...Im new in the Arbitrage game (since 4 months). I found an Overnight Swap Arbitrage possibility on my own and made a couple thousand until my Broker kicked me out ;D Since then Im into Swap and Hedge Arbitrage. Trader191, can you explain to me, what Thomas is missing out about the Swap Basics? In german pls
If you don't mind could you explain this strategy? I'm looking into arbitrage trading. Is it similar to what Thomas said?
Thank you.
  • #17
  • Last Post: Dec 8, 2025 5:39am Dec 8, 2025 5:39am
Interesting, I was searching this concept and again I came across an FF topic. The problem with this swap arbitrage, aside from it lock your fund, is that you should watch a lot of brokers to find a swap opportunity if at all. Do you know any thing like swap scanner or something like that with lots of brokers? of course in that case we have some problems like registering with several brokers but at least we know if there are such opportunities. I found one but it seems it's not working.
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