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  • #1,301
  • Nov 11, 2025 9:03am Nov 11, 2025 9:03am
Quoting hayseed
our performance fees are quoted in euro's...... then later exchanged and paid in british pounds...... then we must exchange them for what we want, in my case usds......
//--------

seems i might owe bank of america an apology...... using my wise account can't help......

for some reason i thought performance fees were in british pounds...... so my gbpusd conversion was throwing off the math...... using eurusd conversion it is almost dead on.....

withdrawing 500(euros) from darwin ends up being 556(usd) being deposited by bofa........ eurusd conversion is 580....... 24$ in fees...... wise can't improve that much......

so no wise for me...... just dumb......

figures.....h
//------
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot 2025-11-11 084421.png Size: 14 KB
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,302
  • Nov 11, 2025 2:27pm Nov 11, 2025 2:27pm
Quoting hayseed
darwin discord guys....... and anyone else interested........ mql5 script to calculate your performance fees....... alert window should pop up and also results will be printed in your experts tab in tool box........ example of one of my accounts below....... allocations is 430,000 ...... it's a 1,000,000 futures account....... profit so far is 12,652....... my risk multiplier is 0.75....h //------- {image} //---- {image} //----- {image} {file} {file}


Couldn't the input values required for the script be obtained directly via some Darwinex API? That would eliminate the need for manual input.
  • #1,303
  • Nov 11, 2025 4:28pm Nov 11, 2025 4:28pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Couldn't the input values required for the script be obtained directly via some Darwinex API? That would eliminate the need for manual input.
//----

unless they have changed since this time last year, the ftp is not allowed for those in the states..... i had contacted them about it...... they said no.....

there is a tremendous amount to data available in those data files...... the raw data user guide only shows part of it........ we have no access .......

yes, of course , i could have got around the usa black out, but that would be dishonest......

it does not take long to do the math in your head...... such as, if i make 12,000 a day in a maxed out signal account, i know my performance fees already......

50,000 a month in the signal account is 3750 in performance fees....... and so on...... 5 accounts is little over 18k a month......

you can relatively easily predict your payouts well in advance...... my 12/8/25 payout will likely be > 4000$....... or 0.......

this is why i want a payout available every day......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,304
  • Nov 13, 2025 3:27pm Nov 13, 2025 3:27pm
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //---- unless they have changed since this time last year, the ftp is not allowed for those in the states..... i had contacted them about it...... they said no..... there is a tremendous amount to data available in those data files...... the raw data user guide only shows part of it........ we have no access ....... yes, of course , i could have got around the usa black out, but that would be dishonest...... it does not take long to do the math in your head...... such as,...
Darwinex only pays out quarterly or monthly. So you would need at least 30 capital allocations, received on every day of the month?
  • #1,305
  • Nov 13, 2025 6:20pm Nov 13, 2025 6:20pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Darwinex only pays out quarterly or monthly. So you would need at least 30 capital allocations, received on every day of the month?
//------

i was figuring 20 payouts a month as in bank days...... 5 trading days per week and 4 weeks per month...... 4 accounts with maxed out allocations and a few silver allocations will more than do .......

i have 20 allocations now, could be 24 in a few days....... 30 by first week of next month, maybe......

the difficult part is avoiding multiple payouts on the same day...... mentioned above my payout on the 8th should be big...... that's partly because i have 7 allocations paying that day, they were bought on the 7th......

it is far better to have them spread out, at least for me...... but sometimes the market offers opportunities too good to pass up....

the 7th was one of those days......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,306
  • Edited 5:19am Nov 14, 2025 5:08am | Edited 5:19am
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //------ i was figuring 20 payouts a month as in bank days...... 5 trading days per week and 4 weeks per month...... 4 accounts with maxed out allocations and a few silver allocations will more than do ....... i have 20 allocations now, could be 24 in a few days....... 30 by first week of next month, maybe...... the difficult part is avoiding multiple payouts on the same day...... mentioned above my payout on the 8th should be big...... that's partly because i have 7 allocations paying that day, they were bought on the 7th...... it is far...
Okay. Yes, so daily payouts wouldn't be crucial for me as long as I get paid. I'm still wondering if there's no limit to the number of Darwins and, for example, Permanent Allocations one can have and whether one can then have the same system trade on every Darwin. It's said that there are no limits and that one Darwin, and therefore one Permanent Allocation, can be had per email address.

Accordingly, my thinking is as follows.

Let's say I create 30 Darwins and buy an instant 100k permanent allocation for each one.

One-off costs: 30 * $1995 = $59850
Monthly costs: 30 * $50 = $1000
Total costs for the 1st month: $60850

Total AuM: $3.000.000 (30 x 100,000k)

Necessary return to cover the one-off costs: +13,3% (3000000 * 0.133* 0.15 = $59850)
Necessary return to cover ongoing subscription costs: +0.23% (3000000 * 0.0023* 0.15 = $1035)

In other words, once the one-time costs of these 30 Darwins, each with a 100k PA, had been covered by achieving a total return of +13.3%, only the ongoing monthly costs of $1000 would remain to be covered. With $3M AUM, this would translate to a return of only +0.23%. Anything above that would be profit.

Assuming you manage to cover the one-time costs in 6 months, and from month 7 onwards you make a 2% profit, then after deducting the 0.23% to cover the monthly subscription costs, you would have made +1.77%.

The resulting performance fee for the end of the 7th month: +$7965 (3000000 * 0.0177 * 0.15)

Now let's say you make +5% instead of "only" +2%. The resulting performance fee is: +$21465 (3000000 * 0.0477 * 0.15)
  • #1,307
  • Edited 6:28am Nov 14, 2025 6:15am | Edited 6:28am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Okay. Yes, so daily payouts wouldn't be crucial for me as long as I get paid. I'm still wondering if there's no limit to the number of Darwins and, for example, Permanent Allocations one can have and whether one can then have the same system trade on every Darwin. It's said that there are no limits and that one Darwin, and therefore one Permanent Allocation, can be had per email address. Accordingly, my thinking is as follows. Let's say I create 30 Darwins and buy an instant 100k permanent allocation for each one. One-off costs: 30 * $1995...
So, you bought a business for 60K, that provides a return of 100K per year, out of the black by month 7....pretty sure any intelligent person would buy that business.
Been trying to explain this for months, a 100K allocation at 15% PF, is like having your own 15K account, for about 13% of the cost, all withut any of the rules of prop firms........truly trade it how you wish.
My advice, buy the one with the 10% target for $595, now your one time outlay is $17850, or about 70.2% less....once you make the first 10%, you have given up $1500 in PF per 100K, but you paid $1400 less per 100K, I think losing $100 per 100K or 3K total (if 30) is worth the 70.2 % discount on initial outlay.....losing 3K to save $42K.......
YOU'RE WELCOME
  • #1,308
  • Nov 14, 2025 6:35am Nov 14, 2025 6:35am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, you bought a business for 60K, that provides a return of 100K per year, out of the black by month 7....pretty sure any intelligent person would buy that business. Been trying to explain this for months, a 100K allocation at 15% PF, is like having your own 15K account, for about 13% of the cost, all withut any of the rules of prop firms........truly trade it how you wish. My advice, buy the one with the 10% target for $595, now your one time outlay is $17850, or about 70.2% less....once you make the first 10%, you have given up $1500...
Good point. Yes, perhaps a 10% target would be more sensible. I'm now curious to see if I'll reach the minimum target this month. I currently need another 1.2%. I should be able to manage that. But yes, getting as much capital as possible with Darwinex without all the limitations that prop trading companies impose seems generally to be a good idea.

As I said, I'm just wondering if you might run into problems at some point if, as I described, you have several Darwins that are only equipped with their virtual capitalization. In principle, they would only generate losses on your profits, similar to props without any real money invested. But if Hayseed already has so many Darwins/AUMs, this approach seems to be tolerated.
  • #1,309
  • Nov 14, 2025 6:43am Nov 14, 2025 6:43am
Quoting Noisy
daily payouts wouldn't be crucial for me as long as I get paid.
//-------

that's a lot of math.......

i tend to lean towards a just between friends type math....... meaning my math is simple, please don't hold it against me.......

the 3 month 100k booster costs me around 500$...... my first month pays for it.... next 2 months are mine...... extrapolating out 12 months, 4000$......

we need to be reasonable with their purchase...... timing is very important.....

the 12 month booster option is better for someone with money to burn....... right now, the 3 month is the reasonable choice for me......

have said many times here, investor funds will be a negative for me....... a absolute negative...... do not want them......

let me invest in me......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,310
  • Nov 14, 2025 6:58am Nov 14, 2025 6:58am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Good point. Yes, perhaps a 10% target would be more sensible. I'm now curious to see if I'll reach the minimum target this month. I currently need another 1.2%. I should be able to manage that. But yes, getting as much capital as possible with Darwinex without all the limitations that prop trading companies impose seems generally to be a good idea. As I said, I'm just wondering if you might run into problems at some point if, as I described, you have several Darwins that are only equipped with their virtual capitalization. In principle,...
The 5% target is even better, I suggested the 10% simply for saving on the upfront outlay.
With the 5%, you are giving up $750 in PF per 100K and paying $900 less....it's actually not wise at all to buy the instant......you're actually losing money. Still saving $27K on outlay.
  • #1,311
  • Nov 14, 2025 7:58am Nov 14, 2025 7:58am
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //------- that's a lot of math....... i tend to lean towards a just between friends type math....... meaning my math is simple, please don't hold it against me....... the 3 month 100k booster costs me around 500$...... my first month pays for it.... next 2 months are mine...... extrapolating out 12 months, 4000$...... we need to be reasonable with their purchase...... timing is very important..... the 12 month booster option is better for someone with money to burn....... right now, the 3 month is the reasonable choice for me...... have...
Understand. So you prefer the 3 months boosters over a non-expiring permanent allocation for your Darwin’s.

Do you trade the same system with every of your Darwin’s accounts?
  • #1,312
  • Nov 14, 2025 9:40am Nov 14, 2025 9:40am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Understand. So you prefer the 3 months boosters over a non-expiring permanent allocation for your Darwin’s. Do you trade the same system with every of your Darwin’s accounts?
//----

no, my preference is the permanent..... i always go with that first..... i need 10 permanents/10 accounts..... only have 4 out of calibration i think......

3 month boosters follow the permanent.... once i'm maxed out, i'll transition to the 12 month ones as 3 months expire.......

it must pay for itself...... i'm putting up the first 500 which i get back in 30 days...... at that point it is cascading....... paying it's own way......

yes, relatively the same trading principle is used in all accounts...... the trades might not match across all accounts but if i'm buying, there will be no sells in any account...... all will be buys.....

the trading principle is in the chart below....... it will make no sense to anyone but me..... it's how i see the markets on all timeframes......

it's why my correlations will be high 90's....h

//-------
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #1,313
  • Nov 15, 2025 4:32am Nov 15, 2025 4:32am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The 5% target is even better, I suggested the 10% simply for saving on the upfront outlay. With the 5%, you are giving up $750 in PF per 100K and paying $900 less....it's actually not wise at all to buy the instant......you're actually losing money. Still saving $27K on outlay.
Buying a permanent allocation with a target percentage return does indeed seem to make more sense. I'll first focus on securing my initial DarwinIA allocation for December before buying a PA. Currently, I'm only 0.18% short of the minimum rating of 75 and the 30K allocation. I need 2.10% by the end of the month for that. That should be doable.

Otherwise, if things continue to go well, I'm very tempted to open several Darwin accounts and equip them with permanent allocations or boosters alongside DarwinIA. Like Hayseed, I'm not entirely convinced by the model of external investors, and my performance isn't good enough to reach DarwinIA Gold anytime soon.

What I find unfortunate is that Darwinex charges an extra fee for monthly payouts but okay.

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  • #1,314
  • Nov 15, 2025 5:52am Nov 15, 2025 5:52am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Buying a permanent allocation with a target percentage return does indeed seem to make more sense. I'll first focus on securing my initial DarwinIA allocation for December before buying a PA. Currently, I'm only 0.18% short of the minimum rating of 75 and the 30K allocation. I need 2.10% by the end of the month for that. That should be doable. Otherwise, if things continue to go well, I'm very tempted to open several Darwin accounts and equip them with permanent allocations or boosters alongside DarwinIA. Like Hayseed, I'm not entirely convinced...
My plan is to get to Gold and see how easy (or hard) it is to attract outside investors.
When we discuss here, the lack of Darwins with substantial investments, we are not factoring in the growth of Darwinex.......Zero is only 2.5 years old, so I believe the past history may not be indicative of what's to come.
At that point, I will explore the allocations and boosters and weigh the pros and cons of allocating funds to Darwinex or building a larger prop firm portfolio.
I much prefer Darwinex as I do not need to worry about daily DD, consistency, payout caps, I CAN average in/out, I can hold overnight, etc, etc.......and of course, the big one, fully regulated and the confidence of getting paid.
However, I believe the prop space, especially futures, is in it's infant stage and there are now several companys paying huge and within hours and some with no caps and/or consistency and due to the 90% split vs. 15%, you need way less AUM to make the same $$$$.
For now, I'll keep the mixture of a small prop portfolio and Darwinex, but when I see Monty pulling 100-200K MONTHLY....it begs the question....at a 2% monthly return on Darwinex, will I ever have 33 mil AUM to earn 100K monthly
  • #1,315
  • Edited 5:38am Nov 16, 2025 5:25am | Edited 5:38am
Quoting pipmaster77
when I see Monty pulling 100-200K MONTHLY....it begs the question....at a 2% monthly return on Darwinex, will I ever have 33 mil AUM to earn 100K monthly
I think that's pretty unlikely, or at least it would take a very long time. Yes, DarwinexZero hasn't been around that long, but I believe it was created precisely for that reason, because they recognized that it would be extremely difficult to raise the necessary sums of external investor capital for a large proportion of Darwins with consistently good performance. And not just the 1-3 few who have been there from the beginning. I mean, since then, virtually no Darwins have been added that even have 1 million in investor capital. So 33 million sounds pretty unlikely.

I have no idea what Monty actually makes from the props. I don't know his bank statements, but even if he's earning 200k a month with prop trading, good for him. However, I don't think this will last with his current "business model." He's already been banned from several props, and with the supposedly real live accounts that you're switched to with futures props once you exceed a certain threshold, you probably can't earn nearly as much as with the funded demo accounts. He should put some of the money he supposedly earns into his own account, which he doesn't seem to do, because he'd probably be back to square one so quickly with his gut feeling high-leverage trading. So, with those props, he will only lose the relatively small payments for evaluations etc.

He should try creating 330 Darwins and equipping them with a 100k permanent allocation. That would be 33 million in AUM then

Monthly costs: 330 x $50 = $16500
One-time costs: 330 x $1095 (5% target return PA) = $361350

After that, he would need to make another 7.3% to recoup the one-off costs. 33000000*0.073*0.15 = $361350. He would then cover the ongoing costs for the Darwins with a paltry +0.34% per month.
  • #1,316
  • Edited 10:24am Nov 16, 2025 9:46am | Edited 10:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Little bumpy, no biggie though, my first one has no received allocation in past 2 months, but is hovering around 16%, so need another 6% for gold as I let the max DD hit 8.8% early on and you must have 2.5X return vs. max DD, so I need 22%+ instead of 20%. Other 2 are both running with the 3 month cumulative allocations, both down slightly this month, but nothing unmanageable. As I posted in the Darwinex thread, once I get these to Gold and see how easy (or difficult) it is to attract outside investors, I will re-evaluate whether to get...
First of all, thank you @pipmaster77, @hayseed and other contributors of this thread..I have read many nice posts in last days in this thread and learned a lot of valuable info about Darwinex.

Long ago, I spended a lot of time with ZuluTrade It was also nice concept but not promising as much as Darwinex. Just getting paid with pip commision was not so encouraging and also urging traders to unnecessary trading. Here, system looks more healthy.

Of course, it needs a lot of time, discipline and effort, but you may get decent returns.

If you can attract real investor with handsome AUM, that's very nice. But, even you can't, it seems that virtual money is allocated en there is 15% profit share at least.

My question is coming right in this point. Assume that I don't have much hope of big real investors and aim only 15% of virtual AUM profit. So, I bought permanent allocation of 100k for that purpose. Since 'no DD rules, no consistency, no payout caps, able to scale in/out, able to hold overnight and the big one......fully regulated and 100% confidence of being paid', it seems that I can take big risks and get big returns. And therefore, my 15% share can be quite handsome while I messed up my Darwinex index rankings due to high drawdown. As an example, you can make 100k permanent allocation 150k in one month by risking very high drawdown during the process. And, you can get my 7500 at the end of month.

1) I know, it is very risky, you can lose all 100k virtual money (and purchasing fee), but I am just curious, is it possible to do it in theory? Is there any rules to prevent it? Let's say, even no explicit DD limit, but maybe there is a rule about VAR ratio like if you exceed some threshold, you are out of game etc.
2) Assume that I gained 50k and withrawn my 15% share. Would be my account balance then 100k again or 142.500? Will they also take their profit share or it just stay at balance always?

Thanks in advance for the answers!
  • #1,317
  • Nov 16, 2025 12:33pm Nov 16, 2025 12:33pm
Quoting StillDreamer
{quote} First of all, thank you @pipmaster77, @hayseed and other contributors of this thread..I have read many nice posts in last days in this thread and learned a lot of valuable info about Darwinex. Long ago, I spended a lot of time with ZuluTrade It was also nice concept but not promising as much as Darwinex. Just getting paid with pip commision was not so encouraging and also urging traders to unnecessary trading. Here, system looks more healthy. Of course, it needs a lot of time, discipline and effort, but you may get decent returns....
I asked those questions to ChatGPT and it seems that it is not possible to trade aggressive with permanent allocation even no strict rules like at prop firms, there seems to have many implicit restrictions/rules via VAR, Risk Engine etc. Below is full answer, pls add your comments if something not correct with ChatGPT answers:

"
1) Can you turn a €100k permanent allocation into €150k in one month by taking huge risk?
Short answer: No.
Not in Darwinex Zero with Permanent Allocation.
Even though Darwinex Zero seems “rule-free”, they enforce strict risk controls through:

  1. VaR limits (Value at Risk)
  2. Risk Engine / Risk Normalisation
  3. Leverage Restrictions
  4. Exposure Scaling
  5. Stop-out rules based on risk instability

If you try to take extremely high risk:
→ Your exposure is automatically reduced
→ Or your DARWIN becomes non-investable
→ Or you get temporarily removed from the investable universe until you normalize risk
That means:
You cannot YOLO trade in Darwinex Zero
You cannot take huge DD to chase huge gains
You cannot make +50% returns simply by “going big”
The risk engine forces your trading into a hedge-fund-like risk profile.
Risk Normalisation — Why big risk won’t work
Darwinex targets:

  1. Target VaR ≈ 6.5%
  2. Allowed range: ±50%
    → Max VaR ≈ ~9–10%

If your trades exceed that:

  1. Your DARWIN is automatically scaled down
  2. Your leverage shrinks
  3. Your position sizes get reduced
  4. If volatility is too high → investable DARWIN suspended

No matter what you try, the risk engine clamps it down.
So yes, in theory you can try to take huge risk, but:
➜ The system won’t actually let the full risk pass through.
➜ You cannot achieve +50% without the risk engine cutting you down.
2) If you earn €50k profit, does your PA reset to €100k or grow?
It grows.
There is no reset.
Example:

  1. Permanent Allocation (PA) = €100,000
  2. You make €50,000 (50% return)

Performance fee split:

  1. Darwinex side (virtual AUM): 85% = €42,500
  2. Your performance fee: 15% = €7,500 real payout

The new PA becomes:
100,000+42,500=142,500100,000 + 42,500 = 142,500100,000+42,500=142,500
So:
You get €7,500 REAL money
Darwinex “keeps” €42,500 in the PA (virtual)
Your PA increases to €142,500
No reset, no return of capital needed
The PA only decreases if you have losing months.
Final Summary
You cannot take extreme risk to chase massive monthly returns
→ The risk engine will block, scale, or suspend you.
Permanent allocation grows with each profitable month
→ Never resets to €100k.
You always get 15% of profits as real cash
→ Regardless of the PA size.
Darwinex Zero is fully regulated
→ Transparent, safe payouts.
"

  • #1,318
  • Nov 16, 2025 2:42pm Nov 16, 2025 2:42pm
Quoting StillDreamer
{quote} First of all, thank you @pipmaster77, @hayseed and other contributors of this thread..I have read many nice posts in last days in this thread and learned a lot of valuable info about Darwinex. Long ago, I spended a lot of time with ZuluTrade It was also nice concept but not promising as much as Darwinex. Just getting paid with pip commision was not so encouraging and also urging traders to unnecessary trading. Here, system looks more healthy. Of course, it needs a lot of time, discipline and effort, but you may get decent returns....
I can not be ambitious like you. I am fine with %2-3% per month. I am glad that you aim 50% Best of success!...
  • #1,319
  • Nov 16, 2025 3:19pm Nov 16, 2025 3:19pm
Quoting deroty
{quote} I can not be ambitious like you. I am fine with %2-3% per month. I am glad that you aim 50% Best of success!...
I am not aiming 50% per month, it was just an example to illustrate a scenario in which a person focus only at permanent allocation and want to be aggresive Example was only to understand the limitations/restrictions. I am trying to have complete picture regarding Darwinex, pros and cons of it and its full abilities in comparison to Forex/Future based prop firms.

It looks quite tempting alternative indeed. It can be pursued as well in addition to prop accounts as a long term invesment.

Best of success!
  • #1,320
  • Nov 16, 2025 9:40pm Nov 16, 2025 9:40pm
Quoting StillDreamer
Performance fee split: Darwinex side (virtual AUM): 85% = €42,500 Your performance fee: 15% = €7,500 real payout

No matter what you try, the risk engine clamps it down.
//------

when using the futures account, the payout numbers will be 1/10 less because of the larger size signal account...... 1,000,000 vs 100k......

making 50,000 in the futures account with a risk multiplier of 1, pays 750 euros......

my monthly target is 500 euros, per 100k allotment...... so 2500 total a month per account if maxed out in allotments.....

feel comfortable saying that will be much higher as time goes on.......
//-------

chatgbt is incorrect about the clamping down....... it will not always clamp down, it can double your earnings...... it did mine before......

the risk multiplier might be the most misunderstood aspect of darwin...... it's not a simple concept at all.......

a person with a 0.7 multiplier can far out preform someone with a multiplier of 10...... if the guy with the 0.7 fully understands the concept and the guy with the 10 does not......

all things considered, the current darwinex zero plan is the best deal out there for me.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
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